I am looking at buying a Holland & Holland Royal in .500/.465 NE from a local dealer who tends to move quite a few high end guns and with whom I have a good relationship.
Before I commit to it, because it is a very nice double, on face, perfect bores and barrels, a solid gun, I want to get some more information on it.
What is the general consensus on these guns, as far as investment, worth, field use, reloading with smokeless etc?
Thanks.

If I could, I would. But I'm no expert.

Here are a few things I would do.

1. Being a 500/465, I would check with Holland's to see what the records say as quite a few 500/450's were rebored / rebarreled after the ban on 450's.

It's also just piece of mind to check that all proof marks etc match up with date of manufacture.

2. investment - I'll leave that to others in the US to answer but it partly depends on what you pay for it relative to current / future value.

3. worth - depends on a whole heap of things, like the model, year made, condition, features etc.

If a Sidelock, Check which Sidelock model it is - the one's with reinforced action is worth more IMHO.

4. field use - kills just like a 450, 470.
I really like the cartridge and I have one by WR.

5. reloading with smokeless - easy cartridge to reload for, plenty of data. Woodleigh's readily available.


My opinion only but Hope that helps.

.

I had one.. sold it after the elephant hunt but wished I had kept it. It is worth double now.

Easy to load.. run a 470 case through the sizing die

Good luck

Thanks for the replies so far.
One the point of reloading, I note that the .470NE has a thinner rim (0.063" compared to .0500" on the .470) and the .470NE has a slightly larger rim too, although only by 0.051".
This afternoon I will call Holland & Holland in London and find out more about the rifle.
Thanks.

I have used 470 cases in the past without a problem.

Great guns,

Most Royals seem to bring in the 48K to-$$$$$$ depending on condition and manufacture date.

I had a friend that had a Dominion Grade Sidelock Ejector 500/465 made in 1914 or 15 cant remember--it was one nice rifle. He sold it. I shure wish I had the cash for it then even though it was a tad short for me. I think Martin got 24K or 25K that was 7 or 8 years ago.

Ed

quote:

Originally posted by Dr L. S. Wirthlin:
I had one.. sold it after the elephant hunt but wished I had kept it. It is worth double now.

Easy to load.. run a 470 case through the sizing die

Good luck

Hi Doc, how are you doing?

Are you a member of www.nitroexpress.com ? There are many good people there (some like 500N post there as well) who are very knowledgeable and helpful. Some are real experts at such rifles - in terms of value, reloading, history etc.

I've had two Holland Royals, a 500/465 and a 500/450. Loved them both, they both shot great and I regret selling both of them. I made good money when I sold them but I was very cautious when I bought them. Have it checked out to make sure they haven't been messed with by a competent double gunsmith, your average gunsmith isn't qualified and has no business with one.

Confirm with Holland the gun is to original specs, in other words, not rechambered, barrels cut, stock shorter than average, etc. All these issues are fine if all you want is a shooter but if you are looking for investment they'll kill you on resale. If you give Holland the serial # they'll email you the original build sheet.

For example, there is a Holland 500/450 right now on Westley Richard's site with 25.5" barrels. They were originally 26", not sure why they were cut but they were. Many of these rifles are in excess of 100 years old and have had things done to accomodate the owners needs or more often were refinished or "improved" by unqualified gunsmiths.

If it's a good one, grab it.

I spoke with Holland & Holland about the rifle, and got the original specs. One thing I know for sure is that the stock has been cut down because it was originally a 15 3/8 LOP, but considering that 90% of people would prefer the 14 1/2 odd or thereabouts that is now has, I don't suppose that should subtract from the value.
This gun was built in 1913, 26" barrels, the original caliber is .500-.465 and the original weight was 10lb 10oz which may be slightly less du to the inch or so of stock trimmed off.
This afternoon I will go by and take some pictures and post them here for you to all see.
What were the "good" years to buy from?
Thanks.

Pre war as in before WW2 is considered the best. Not that they forgot how to make them after.....just really consistent and great quality before. After the war many companies closed down, didn't make any for a while, were consolidated, or eventually were bought by new owners and started a new like the modern Rigby of Calimexifornia. Sounds like a great rifle. I doubt the stock being shortened should affect the value in the least. Also refinishing isn't a big deal either. Many sportsmen in England would regularly send their rifles back to be reblued and the wood refinished at the end of a season or two. If its a royal then I'm darn near 100% sure it's a side lock ejector with reasonable to exquisite scroll engraving. The weight of the rifle is great. As long as the bores are in good/great shape and the outer gun is in good/great shape I'd expect the gun to be worth 50-55k+. It could be worth as much as 100-150k if it's special/above average and/or has a history to it. Most royals I've seen of near this time frame of average royal quality in good to great shape I'd expect to pay 50-75k. Please take this with a grain of salt and do your homework, but that's been my observation.

Brett

Well folk, I did take the plunge and baught that rifle.

On Easter sunday I was able to take it out and christen it with a spot and stalk boar hunt, which I enjoyed very much.

The rifle is just wonderful and I'm not particularly worried about it's resale value, because I hope to keep it and pass it down to my son one day.

Photos Please!!!
:-)

Best wishes.

Congratulations! Would love to see pictures!