Gents..

I have an extra set of barrels for my .475 double. They are in .280 Flanged NE. This is a pretty oddball round and not so easy to load for....too easy to get high pressures....and the rifle is then really much to heavy for calibre..

So I contemplate cutting those barrels and sleeve in a new set of barrels in either .375 Flanged or 9,3x74R and subsequently scope the new set with controlled claw mounts..

Have any of you done similar jobs..? Is this doable..??

The alternative is of course to make an entirely new set of barrels..expensive..

Can't make an opinion as some details are lacking.
Are the .280 barrels made for the rifle at the time of manufacture? If not, were they made later by the same maker for the rifle? Is the rifle cased for both sets of barrels?

Unless the second set of barrels is after market by an third world gunmaker I would leave them as is. It will cost more for a third set to be made up for sure, but the integrity of the present set will remain intact. You will lessen the value of what you have by sleeving.

I'm been searching high and low for a .280 or .300 flanged to complete my series of doubles. Not much is out there. I've seen many .303s but it's too small for me. Guns International has a nice .280 but it is high priced for a no engraved double and the top lever sits say too far to the right when closed. Caswell as a nice Holland .300 flanged but it is too fancy for all the shooting I intend to do. So, I'm still on the prowl.

Unless your .280 set is a low class add-on, keep it as it is and either her a thirds set made or just buy a .375 flanged double (.or .360 no2).
Cheers, mate.
Ca.

Cal...thanks for a swift response...

The .280 set is made by the same maker, both rifle sets are equally numbered and marked. No case so I cannot say if both barrel sets are original or if the .280s came later..

There is another alternative that I would consider. That of reboring for the new caliber. Thee are several barrels makers in UK that will do this for you. Also there are barrel makers in Germany and one or two in America.

However, if your rifle is not an expensive rifle such as made by top tier gun and rifle makers in UK, the expense of this alternative may not be worth it, vs. sleeving.

As a general note for you the .375 Flanged H&H Magnum has less chamber pressure than the 9.3 x 74R. Both are excellent cartridges and it will be hard to decide as the 9.2x74R re-loading will much less expense that gathering everything to reload for .375 H&H Flanged. I know because I am gathering .375 "stuff" for my use.

Steve

If the barrels are by the same maker and numbered to the .475 barrels, that's a rare combination in the world of double rifles. Once altered, there dis no going back.
Who's the maker and about what year?
Also, what is so difficult about loading for the .280 cartridge? A medium burning power such as 3031 should be fine and you'd have a fine deer cartridge.
Of course, it's your call.
cal

One of My great uncles brought a and double barreled rifle back from WWII thinking it was a shotgun. When he found it was a rifle, and he would not be able to get ammo for it he had the barrels bored out, and chambered for 20 GA shotgun shells. The result wasn't worth crap so he sold it to a hock-shop in Fort Worth and bought a pump 12 ga shotgun from Sears or Montgomery Ward.

I was very young and don't know who made the rifle, but I certainly wish I had been a little older before he destroyed that rifle. I think in the case here in this thread, I agree with Cal, the barrels being made by the same maker is a very valuable item as is!
..................................................................

Cal, I have briefly discussed the rifle with you before....it is marked Midland Gun Co.

I mailed you some pics and it looks very much like your .600, same sideclips etc. so you suspected it was made by Wilkes for Midland Gun Co.

The year, well the Midland records are reputedly lost in a fire, but given the two calibres and a lever forearm release I suspect between 1908 and 1920 or thereabouts..

I will keep both original barrels and look into having a new set made.

Wise choice. Once altered there is no going back.
Cal

quote:

Originally posted by Pondoro:
I will keep both original barrels and look into having a new set made.

Wise choice Andre . . . what you have is pretty rare and only going to become rarer with each passing decade.

Hambruch of Ferlach does sleaving to a deemed suitable calibre.
Or how about a new set of 303British barrels

Oz, a .303 Brit. barrel set wouldnt be much different than the .280 set..

I want something to shoot game like moose, large antelope and perhaps cape buffalo...

My moose gun is a .375H&H and come to think of it a new barrel set must be .375H&H Flanged..

I think my old brit double will die of shame if a 9,3x74R set is put on it...it will be the ultimate clash of two very different cultures...

A new set of 375F with a detachable scope would be great!
Like this one I used yesterday ;

Ozhunter, great setup. What mounts are you using?

I agree on a new set of 375Flanged Mag barrels. Then you have a great 3 barrel set!

I have a two barrel set, a 500/450 3 1/4" and a later 375Flanged Mag set by the original maker. Nice setup although the 375 isn't as light as a purpose built 375 would be. Very similar weight and balance to the 450 so that is ok.

Good luck with it and would be interested to see what you do with it.

Chris

Rockdock....is yours a Holland & Holland..?

Oz, yes I will definately scope those barrels, controlled claw mounts..yours look great

Andre,

do not make a 9,3x74 R barrel - a English gun must have 375 or similar... not a German caliber.

Morten

Mine are Recknagle swing mounts. Ideal for the 375 but I would not add them for above the 400cal.

That is a good looking "small calibre" double rifle Ozhunter! What make is this rifle?

Sorry of OT post, Pondoro...

quote:

Originally posted by cal pappas:
If the barrels are by the same maker and numbered to the .475 barrels, that's a rare combination in the world of double rifles. Once altered, there is no going back.
Who's the maker and about what year?
Also, what is so difficult about loading for the .280 cartridge? A medium burning power such as 3031 should be fine and you'd have a fine deer cartridge.
Of course, it's your call.
cal

I will second Cal-
SAVE the original barrel-
Have a complete 375FL set built.

I once had a 280FL and did have to go through a bit more work to develop a load--
in the end it was worth it-

There are gunmakers in Germany, Austria, England and other countries on your side of the pond that can accomplish a new barrel set without converting your 280 barrel to a mono block

Pondoro;

Visit the "You Tube" website and search for: Dubbelstudsarprojekt 2014. You will see a video of a gun maker whose workshop is near Norway making a set of 8x57JRS barrels. You may desire to contact him and ask what his price is to make you a set of .375 H&H Flanged magnum barrels.

I am making a set of .375 barrels for a rifle of my own, however I do not do work for others. I will see if I can post a photo of these barrels for you so that you can see one of the methods by which such barrels are made--the European "shoe lump" method.

Regards;
Steve

quote:

Originally posted by Pondoro:
Rockdock....is yours a Holland & Holland..?

Oz, yes I will definately scope those barrels, controlled claw mounts..yours look great

Yes. The 375 barrels have scope mounts, just not what I would call overly useful. Similar to a few others I have seen on DR's, dovetail with Brownell type lever mounts.

Cheers, Chris

Yes, please post some pics...the video was educational...

quote:

Originally posted by Pondoro:
Yes, please post some pics...the video was educational...

Ok. .375 barrels I am shoe lump building.

[url=http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums
/o707/lowveldt/SL%2028_zpsqmkobvvk.jpg]http:
//i1339.photobucket.com
/a...2028_zpsqmkobvvk.jpg[/url]

Thank you very much, I will look into this seriously in 2016...

quote:

Originally posted by BrownMax:
That is a good looking "small calibre" double rifle Ozhunter! What make is this rifle?

Sorry of OT post, Pondoro...

It's a Westley Richards that has been worked on by Hambruch of Ferlach

quote:

Originally posted by Pondoro:
Cal, I have briefly discussed the rifle with you before....it is marked Midland Gun Co.

I mailed you some pics and it looks very much like your .600, same sideclips etc. so you suspected it was made by Wilkes for Midland Gun Co.

The year, well the Midland records are reputedly lost in a fire, but given the two calibres and a lever forearm release I suspect between 1908 and 1920 or thereabouts..

I will keep both original barrels and look into having a new set made.

Does a 280 Flanged clean out to the 7x65R - thats a readily available cartridge. Might be worth investigating. Indeed speak to Hambrusch who did this work - they are pretty knowledgeable and helpful when I spoke to them a few years ago.

Pondoro;

I remember some time back you and I discussed your Midland Double rifle and it's date. Seems like I may have sent you a copy of one of the Midland Gun Co. catalogues of the 1930.

However, I do not remember if I described the "private view marks" that Col Playfair the proofmaster introduced in 1921 at the Birmingham proof house. The marks, if present, on a Birmingham gun or rifle built from 1921 onward allow the dating of the guns origin. The first series of these "marks" from 1921 to 1941 consisted of cross swords or sceptres with a capital letter (A=1July1921 to 30June1922 and so on)and a number of dots indicating the seniority of proof house Inspector. After WWII the "marks" were begun again in 1950, but that is a discussion for another day as the style of the mark changed a bit through the years all the way until now. The Birmingham marks were also applied to guns that were repair-reproofed in the proofhouse, so one has to be careful in interpreting the dates.
If you want to take photos of the barrel flats of your two sets of barrels, I can view the photos and see if I see any of the Birmingham proof house marks. From time to time one will hear someone refer to the marks as "secret proof marks" and to most owners they are a secret as they have seen them on their barrels flats and do not have a clue as to what they are. If your camera has a "Macro" lens setting use it as the photo will show more close up detail. I always use a tripod and the camera shutter timer when I photograph proof marks because the viewers marks are so difficult to see.

Kindest Regards;
Steve Howell

IMO, you may have a very valuable gun, and if it ain't broke then don't fix it...Once monkied with the value is no longer there..Leave it alone, load it and shoot it with both..There is nothing about the 280 Flanged that creates pressure except poor loading practices and too much powder..Its a great round, probably regulated, to a particular load and once found you will have many years of fun shooting with the .280.

Transvaal...I just read your post....I will come back to you with photos, it is very kind of you to offer to do this..

I am at sea now but will come back to you in 2 weeks time..

Again, thank you very much..

quote:

Originally posted by Heym SR20:
Does a 280 Flanged clean out to the 7x65R - thats a readily available cartridge. Might be worth investigating. Indeed speak to Hambrusch who did this work - they are pretty knowledgeable and helpful when I spoke to them a few years ago.

280 base diameter is too large
.535 vs .463