I got the bug bad and the only rifle I take on hunting trips as of late is my Chapuis 9,3x74R but would love to move up to a larger rifle. One never knows when a killer moose or wolf will try to attack me and I need a stopper!

I simply can not afford a Heym, period. This leaves me with another Chapuis, Searcy or a Verron Carron (which I know nothing about). Searcys are nice but ejectors are a $2,000 option on the Field Grade model. The Field Grade model is within reach but are ejectors worth 20% of the rifles price? Can they be added after the rifle is built? I do like the fact Butches shop is in the USA and he has a great reputation for taking care of customers.
Articulated front trigger can be added to the VC for $250.
Caliber will be 450 3 1/4 NE simply due to the huge supply of bullets. Merkel is out because they do not cater to the left hand crowd.

My main goal is a larger double to use for hunting. Safe queens have no use for me. Any and all comments are appreciated.

Thanks guys.

Chapuis Brousse in 470 NE.... check cabelas for some previous owned ones new $12K... used $10K..

Some fantastic looking stocks available.

Regards... PAH

As I said, not interested in a 470. Would like to hear from people who owned both if possible. And for now I have to scratch Chapuis from the list as they do not offer the 450 (or the 450/400 for that matter).

So, if any of you guys own(ed) a Searcy and VC I value your input.

www.kebcollc.com has Siace in 45/70 which shoots the .458 bullet

just as a point to kick around. Dale Nygaard can order you a nice

rifle from www.tjf-jagdwaffen.de if you want a German doing the

U.K style. Of the three you mentioned I'd vote for V/C from www.kebcollc.com

again, based on all the good stuff I've heard about Mr. DEMAS, who

is making the V/C rifles. I hear nothing but good about KEBCO too,

and he helped me out with some very sound advise a few months back

and no charge, no nuthin'. So I would do business with him at the drop

of a hat and I recommend him based on how I got treated and other's reports.

Snowwolfe,

Along with others, I can testify that the Searcy is a great choice. Mine is a 450/400 3" classic.

Personally, I see no need to own any other caliber than that one (I don't intend to shoot another elephant).

I would sell the Chapuis and buy a 450/400 3" classic then shoot it until comfortable and confident with it.

I don't see the need a big choice of bullets. Get some 400 grain Woodleigh softs and perfect a load for those.

Keep it simple.

Yes, a 450/400 would do anything I needed the rifle to do and can't really defend why it would be a bad choice. Doubt I would ever shoot anything larger than a moose and even that would be under 150 yards 99% of the time. Guess the caliber debate could be put on the back burner until I pick a builder.

The VC seems to get high marks but it is really difficult to get opinions online of people who actually own them. Searcy is in the USA and with great customer support although I am wondering how many Searcy owners never needed it? It is surprising with all the double owners here no one owns a VC in this caliber range. Is it because they are unknown or is something stopping people from buying them?

The Chapuis is not going to be sold. That is one really accurate rifle. Yesterday at the range I managed to hit a 24 inch gong at 300 meters off hand 3 out of 4 times. First one hit the dirt and I held up more front sight and bam bam bam. That got the other guys around me talking

Snowwolfe

I do not think Chapuis is making a 450/400.

In truth, for North America, including Alaska, a 9,3x74R is hard to beat.

However when I went to Alaska to hunt caribou, first trip and brown bear second trip, I used a 450/400 3 1/4" double.

Yes, Chapuis is out because they will not make either a 450/400 or a 450.

Does anyone know where the safety is on the VC? Presently I am slightly leaning towards the Searcy, but not by much. The VC seems to offer more rifle for the money but it still seems to be unknown.

Several guys on here sent me messages telling me how great Butch is to work with if you have problems and I appreciate the comments. But it seems some have problems when they shouldnt. Great service is always a plus. But how many of you Searcy owners have rifles that never had anything go wrong with them?

Check with Adam Freeman at luxus walnut. He is having some guns made up in 450/400 and 450 3 1/4 regulated with hornady ammo for under 10K

http://www.luxusgunstock.com/LuxusPHdoublerifle.jpg

Ed

quote:

Originally posted by Snowwolfe:
Several guys on here sent me messages telling me how great Butch is to work with if you have problems and I appreciate the comments. But it seems some have problems when they shouldnt. Great service is always a plus. But how many of you Searcy owners have rifles that never had anything go wrong with them?

This point that you've articulated was very much part of what steered me away from B.S. rifles.
I was NOT happy about that, as buying American is what I wanted to do. But I can't get myself to
buy an American car for similar reasons. I did NOT want to need good service. I wanted a rifle
that would NOT NEED service/repairs on and on and on... I just heard too many guys report that
their B.S. rifle had to go back and forth. Again sad to express this.

The V/C by DEMAS has the typical sliding safety. If you want a new rifle, I'd look really hard
at the V/C.

Been giving this a good deal of thought and several members have sent me pm's which I very much appreciated. General opinion is the VC is an excellent rifle but it really disturbs me the rifle may have to go back to France if it ever needs major repairs.
Not sure how my shooting compares to the rest of you but I average a couple hundred rounds a year out of my Chapuis since I bought it and plan on at least that amount in the newer (bigger) double.
Have a big moose hunt scheduled soon and will give this a lot of thought during the hunt. Managed to read through some of the history files here and Butchs service appears to be absolutely top notch. Am leaning towards ordering a Searcy Field Grade in either 450/400 or 450. I know I don't need a 450 but needs have nothing to do with it, lol.
Just wished I could find a member with a 450 to shoot it a couple of times before I finalize the caliber. Like the idea the 450 can be downloaded with a huge selection of bullets. No worries about me shooting elephants unless I win the lottery. And if I win I would have the cash to buy a 500 anyhow.

Keep the comments coming. I appreciate all of them.

You've got a pm coming your way.

I've had a Searcy rifle since 2006. I was more than happy with the build quality at the time and nothing has happened to change my opinion. I've never had to send the rifle back to Butch for any reason, but it is nice to know that if I need to, I can. There also seems to be a number of Searcy owners on this board that have been pleased with their rifles.

mjc, count me in as happy with my Searcy. Had to send it back originally for a couple of small problems but not a boble since. I killed a good bull elephant with it. Hopefully lots more to come.

josh

I decided to go with the Field Grade Searcy and Talley scope mount.

Still unsure of the caliber (either 450/400 or 450) or the barrel length (24 vs 26). Sent Butch an email today telling him to expect the deposit the first part of October as this will give me time to decide the caliber and barrel length. Hopefully will connect with a fellow Alaskan on Sunday to test fire his 450.

Look at your PM's then call me.

I have a 450 No2.

In a new made double 450 3 1/4" is an excellent choice, especially if you plan on shooting it a lot.

When I hunt Africa I use Woodleogh Softs and Solids and Swift A Frames.

However for hunting in the lower 48 I mostly use the Hornady 350gr RN at @2330fps.

I have also shot a wild pig, and a coyote with the 500gr Hornady RN.

You can also make up Nitro for Black loads in the power range of the 45/70 +P and 450 Marlin levels, as well as standard 45/70 power level loads. These loads are very plesent to shoot in the typical 10lb+ double rifle.

A 9,3 double and a 40cal. and up double make a great pair.

With a 450/400 double with a .411 diameter barrel you can also use the 300gr Hornady bullet made for the 405 Winchester in the same fashion.

You cannot go wrong with either calibre.

I would definately go with 26" barrels.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
I would definately go with 26" barrels.

A double with 28" bbls equals the length of a bolt

action with a 24" barrel I'm told. I have no regrets

that my Osborne built double has 28 inchers.

Outside of a possible modest gain in velocity what are the advantages of 26 vs 24 inch barrels?

On a 40cal and up double I think 26" handles better. Also the longer sight radius makes it easier to see the front sight.

My 450 No2 has 28" barrels.

In a 450 to 475 double I like 27" and 28" barrels.

NE450-


Have you killed anything with that rifle since you got the stock replaced?

I'd love to have a proper 'old' 450#2NE rifle with appropriately struck 28" tubes.
Hubba Hubba!!



Cheers
Tinker

Tinker

Yes as a matter of fact I used it on the DRSS hunt last Jan and I killed 2 pigs with it.

One of the pigs was lilled at @80 yards. It was a Hell of a shot, if I do say so myself as I had to shoot through some large tree trunks to get him.

JJ Perodeau did an EXCELLENT job of restocking.
It fits me even better than the original.

The wood is very good, several AR members have seen it.

This is one rifle I will NEVER sell.

I have made some awsome shots with it.

I just point it in the general direction of the animal, close my eyes and slap the triggers.

Gentlemen,
I have been reading this and many other threads mostly here in the double rifle area and a little bit in the African hunting area. I decided to pipe up, mostly due to tradition. Tradition is why we do many things, marry, celebrate certain holidays and wear black to funerals.

It is this old mans traditional opinion that a double rifle is completely out of place hunting in Alaska, no reason, or law just simply out of tradition.

Secondly, barrels of more than 26" ruin the flow and beauty of a double rifle, at some point if a tool needs to have this or that to make it work, get a better suited tool for the job.

A proper DR, feels, looks and even smells of the bush, they can create chill bumps even though they are of simple steel and wood. They in some cases carry multiple generations of hunters over the atlantic. They, by my definition ARE Africa and are capable of emotion.

Tradition,
BB

I beg to differ some.. DR's work everywhere not just on the dark contient. They work just fine up here.

It is a shame you limit yourself to what you consider "tradition".
Not trying new things or opening our eyes to things we never experienced before would make life very dull indeed.
Lived in Alaska for more than 30 years and my first double brought an excitement to hunting I have not felt in years.
Your opinions are valuable but perhaps you should start another thread about traditions.

Working just fine and tradition are completely different concepts. A benchrest bull barreled .300 win mag would be just fine for the kafue flats but not best suited either. But you original topic, sorry I won't further attempt to hijack YOUR thread.

I'm just interested in this stuff and share some passion for doubles, in Africa.

All my doubles are far to fragile to hunt in the harsh enviroments and saltly air, I've been on Kodiak, the Penninsula, the Brooks, the Alaska and even a stainless rifle will corode. A teflon coated stainless is the only thing that suffers no ill affect.

BB

Are Searcy rifles provided with any type of case when you buy one from the factory?
If not, what does the aluminum case cost?

quote:

Originally posted by Snowwolfe:
Are Searcy rifles provided with any type of case when you buy one from the factory?
If not, what does the aluminum case cost?

Those cases are nice, but save your money and buy a Pelican case.

Buffalobeans:

Welcome to the forum. Don't take it personally, but you'll find a number of folks here that would disagree with your first two posts.

quote:

It is this old mans traditional opinion that a double rifle is completely out of place hunting in Alaska, no reason, or law just simply out of tradition.

I know of no such tradition, and don't understand what tradition has to do with it anyway. There are a lot of doubles in use in Alaska

quote:

Secondly, barrels of more than 26" ruin the flow and beauty of a double rifle, at some point if a tool needs to have this or that to make it work, get a better suited tool for the job.

Not at all. Those silly 24" do that. Nothing is gained from cutting DR barrels below 26". My DRs are 26" now, but I've owned 28s in the past and vastly prefer them to 24s.

quote:

All my doubles are far to fragile to hunt in the harsh enviroments and saltly air,

That's unfortunate. I've always found the opposite.
-----------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

I have used my doubles in Zimbabwe, Texas, Idaho, Montana, Canada, and Alaska.

They never complained.

I bear hunted in Montana one toime where my double was in 4 different rain STORMS. Some of the hardest rain I have ever been. We [the wife and I] were backpack hunting. On those 4 days we walked for 4 or 5 hours EACH of those days.

In the way back to Texas I stopped at Champlin Arma and had JJ pull off the butt stock, expecting a bunch of rust in the action.

It did not look like even one drop of water had been in the action.
No doube it had been flooded, but it had drained and dried out perfect. Since then I do not worry about it.

I bought them to hunt with, and hunt with them I do.

IF I could only have ONE hunting rifle IT WOULD BE A DOUBLE RIFLE.

If I could have ONLY TWO hunting rifles, they BOTH would be DOUBLES.

They are simple opinions thats all,
As far as welcome? my first post I was invited to "start my own thread"

quote:

Originally posted by Buffalobeans:
They are simple opinions thats all,
As far as welcome? my first post I was invited to "start my own thread"

Well, yeah, he did. The purpose of this forum certainly includes the exchange of ideas and opinions, and that's what we're doing. There are some long time double rifle shooters here. The OP's real message in response to your post was in the rest of his post. He lives in Alaska and is already using a double rifle quite successfully:

quote:

It is a shame you limit yourself to what you consider "tradition".
Not trying new things or opening our eyes to things we never experienced before would make life very dull indeed.
Lived in Alaska for more than 30 years and my first double brought an excitement to hunting I have not felt in years.

What was wrong with that?

Your views harbor two beliefs that just aren't true.

First it's a mistake to take such a narrow view of the utility of double rifles, but it's a mistake that a lot of people make. They were NOT invented for African use, nor were they even invented for dangerous game. They were invented for driven game - fast moving game often in heavy cover, and that's what they're still primarily used for. They're IDEAL for North American hunting, especially in timber or brush, and there's plenty of that here.

With regard to your doubles being "delicate", having used bolt rifles exclusively for 20 years, then using double rifles exclusively for the last 20+, I've found good quality boxlock double rifles to be more robust in extreme conditions than I ever did bolts. I've found them to be more resistant to the elements and to be simpler to care for in harsh environments, particularly so in wet conditions. The rifle that I use most is also my youngest DR. Despite many decades in India before 18 years service with me, it remains entirely corrosion free in and out, and it's 82 years old.
---------------------------------
"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

quote:

Originally posted by Buffalobeans:
They are simple opinions thats all,
As far as welcome? my first post I was invited to "start my own thread"

Very true, and sorry if I offended you. However your comments, interesting that they were, simply did not pertain to the original topic of trying to decide what brand of double rifle to order.

Welcome to AR! Ya need thick skin to hang with this crowd

I hate to break your heart, but the continental doubles are made on cheesy shotgun frames, and H&H farms their work out to a variety of independent gunsmiths. Your only real option for top quality is a Westley Richards. Searcy guns have a lot of steel in them, but someone who knows mass production (Like Sam Colt 1836) needs to teach that company how to standardize part dimensions and shapes.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
On a 40cal and up double I think 26" handles better. Also the longer sight radius makes it easier to see the front sight.

My 450 No2 has 28" barrels.

In a 450 to 475 double I like 27" and 28" barrels.

I have doubles with "24","26" and "28" barrels. My 470 Evans has "28" barrels and at 10.75lbs is a great handling rifle. My "24" barreled guns are Jeffrey 450/400s and they handle well. The same Jeffreys in 475 #2 feel fat and clunky to me as do most modern guns with "24" tubes.

If I had to pick one barrel length it would be "26". My best handling guns are "26" Webley built 450/400s.

Snowwolfe, If I had to pick between the modern built guns I'd pick the Heym hands down. If I had a Chapuis 9.3 and didn't have the $ for the Heym, I'd sell the Chapuis and get a Heym 450/400 with claw mounts before I'd buy one of the others.

Definately recommend you shoot a 450/470 before you buy one.

Enjoy whichever one you get.