A Jeffery 333 NE:

https://www.gunsinternational....cfm?gun_id=101131987

It is a lovely rifle, but one to stay away from.

The stresses to the steel of an action that has been re-color case hardened are significant. If this double rifle has not been re-proofed after the color case hardened took place then one needs to assume there can be a potential dangerous episode waiting to happen. I see no re-proof marks on the barrels and from the little I can see of the action flats, no re-proof marks there. Both London and Birmingham proof houses have their individual "R" proof marks for re-proof.

Some case hardening firms (such as the one in New York) can produce case hardening like colors without raising the temperatures of the steel to the transformation stage and beyond, however questions of steel integrity are still there, and of course the process leaves the steel unhardened.

Beautiful rifle.

Is that built on a Webley action or the usual Turner made Jeffery?

quote:

Originally posted by Transvaal:
It is a lovely rifle, but one to stay away from.

The stresses to the steel of an action that has been re-color case hardened are significant. If this double rifle has not been re-proofed after the color case hardened took place then one needs to assume there can be a potential dangerous episode waiting to happen. I see no re-proof marks on the barrels and from the little I can see of the action flats, no re-proof marks there. Both London and Birmingham proof houses have their individual "R" proof marks for re-proof.

Some case hardening firms (such as the one in New York) can produce case hardening like colors without raising the temperatures of the steel to the transformation stage and beyond, however questions of steel integrity are still there, and of course the process leaves the steel unhardened.

Where does it say it has been re color casehardened.

Would be a nice classic to own.

It's been completely redone--wood, barrel blacking and the case coloring.
In today's market, for the refinish (without knowing who did it) and the caliber it is quite over priced.
Cal

At least it's got a doll's head

I think that it's over priced for what it is and, of course, critical to what it is is bore condition.

In forty years in this game I've never heard of a gun being required to be subject to re-proof after being re-colour case hardened by the traditional method.

But you live and learn...

I know of a London Sporting Park (Webley) 450/400 3.25inch in very good condition for less than that rifle. In the US too.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by enfieldspares:
I think that it's over priced for what it is and, of course, critical to what it is is bore condition.

In forty years in this game I've never heard of a gun being required to be subject to re-proof after being re-colour case hardened by the traditional method.

Enfield;

I have always just assumed that reproof was required in UK, but after your statement of your 40 years of experience there in the UK, I am not certain that the reproof is required and your question brought it to mind that I should ask a couple of people I know. I sent an email to a friend here in the USA, gun and shooting author Douglas Tate (late of Birmingham UK) and asked him what he knew on the subject, and he responded just now that he had St. Ledger re-case harden some actions for him in the past and Douglas did not have to have them reproved. Douglas went on to say that he thought that it would be a good idea to have them reproved. You probably know Douglas from his writings published in the UK. He wrote an article in "The Field" some time back on color case hardening. It is a very interesting article and I have a .pdf file of it that Douglas just sent me for anyone that would like to read the article--just send me a PM with your email address and I will send it to you.

Secondly I sent a email to another friend of mine in Birmingham, Malcolm Cruxton who has been in the trade nearly 60 years and still in his shop in Price Street, Birmingham. I asked Malcolm if reproving is required. I hope to hear from Malcolm in a couple of days. I was going to send an email to the Birmingham proof master but I cannot find an email address. I remember back in 2002 when I was living in the UK that Malcolm was opposed to having a gun action re-case hardened. I suspect his opposition was as a result of "negative reinforcement" experience.

It may be that reproving is not required, but it just seems intuitive to me that raising the temperature of a gun or rifle action to near 1500 degrees F and then submersing the action into cold water would produce concerns at the proof house. It is well known that doing this on occasions warps and cracks actions. However, it appears from what Douglas Tate said today that I am wrong in my assumption that actions have to re-proofed.

I can only say that for my part I would not re-case harden a double rifle action without having it re-proved before I sold it (just to limit my liability), especially with a high velocity cartridge like the Jeffery .333 flanged (I assume it the flanged one for this rifle)

But as you said I "live and learn" and also admit my mistakes.
Maybe you can telephone the proof master at Birmingham or London and find out the answer.

Deduct $12k to a new set of barrels. The sights and rip can be use again...But most barrelmakers would make up a new rip with dollshead.

I know malcolm well enough that for the last twenty years he's worked on one or two of my own guns. The last was to shorten the stock on my Boss and put an extension pad on a Belgian BLNE that I've bought as a foul weather gun.

quote:

Originally posted by enfieldspares:
I know malcolm well enough that for the last twenty years he's worked on one or two of my own guns. The last was to shorten the stock on my Boss and put an extension pad on a Belgian BLNE that I've bought as a foul weather gun.

I received a email from Malcolm Cruxton today stating that re-proof is not necessary for re-case hardened actions.

My apologies if I have led any of you astray.
I am "gobsmacked".

Re-case hardening doesn't effect the steel of the action. They don't have the carbon equivalent to harden.

Dave