I'm on the trail of a Jefferey .475 double. I have not seen it or seen any pictures. All I know is that the name on the file is "Rifle: Jefferay 475mm, double rifle". The words i read made me realise the guy had little idea of what he was dealing with. Let me explain:

I was at an interview for new gun license applicants at the police station. The guy in line in front of me was handling a flat file with those wrods written on it. Got chatting and turned out he was applying for registration of a new firearm on behalf of his company which deals with property security. It turned out that at the interview, he was told by the panel that that firearm was not suitable for security purposes which meant he won't get his application approved. That is when i struck

I offered him to buy it if I could see it and it was in good order. He was keen as a dandy. Sooo... he is travelling until next week so i need to wait before i get my hands on it and give it a good look over. I doubt he has any idea of the potential value of sucha rifle so it might end up being the "bargain of the century" for me.

You can just immagine what's going through my head

Good Luck! Better it is someones hands that will use it and appreciate it for what it is, than some company that thinks it is a rioy gun!

Good Luck is right! Hope she is in good shape.

Keep us posted.

Of course, maybe the rifle is not a Jeffery and was really built by one Jeffe Ray - wonder if jefferay is kin to jeffeosso?

I love the look and feel of the 475 #2

Jeffery, perhaps more than any other, period!

Well I finally got to see the rifle today:

First off, it is a .475 Exp not #2.
The overall condition is poor. Stock is a write off. All metal work is slightly pitted about 60 - 70% on the outside, the barrels appear straight and the rifling good - no sign of pitting inside the barrel. The action appears tight, both triggers work, cocking mechanism seems to function as well as the safety mechanism. Both rear and front sights are damaged and would need total replacement. It has a very simple engraving on both sides of a bovine - appears to be more a West African buffalo than a cape buff.

The makers number is 22108. It has various other marks on the barrel which probably indicate origins, etc. Both barrels hav ethe writing "Gusstahl Krup Essen" on the under side and the top side it says W. J. Jeffery company, london on one barrel and the address on the other barrel.

I can buy it for VERY cheap but need to decide whether it is worth my while as it would need a complete restoration IMHO. I am trying to contact Jeffery's for some comments.

Any thoughts?

What is "VERY" cheap?

If it is a few hundred bucks, I would go for it.

I suppose I could get it for the price of a shotgun at the local gun shop which is approx $800

I'd buy it in a heartbeat. The price is certainly right.

Bwanamich:

What did the proof marks say? Were they "Cordite 75, 480 MAX"? I've seen lots of Jeffery's in many calibers, but a .475 3 1/4" would be unusual in the extreme.

The serial number is from early in a block of numbers assigned 1910-1913. If the bores are good, it would be hard to go wrong at that price.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

I'd jump on it. That caliber will do anything the other .450-.470-.475 class cartridges will do. I've used it and was very happy with the load on elephant. Yes, it needs work, but it 's a Jeff and good bores to work with.

Most likely it is a 475 No2 Jeffery.
The barrel flats probably say "475EX".

It should also say Cordite 85, 500MAX
Which would indicate the 475 No2 Jeffery Nitro ctg.

My bbl flats on my 450 No2 say "450EX", my 450/400 3 1/4" says "400EX".

Bwanamich:

From that period, the .475s will all be marked "475EX".

A .475 3 1/4" will be marked "Cordite 75 - 480MAX".

A .475 No. 2 Jeffery will be marked "Cordite 80 - 500MAX". A small number of Jeffery .475 No. 2 rifles were made for the full 85 Cordite load.

A .475 No. 2 Eley (same cartridge as the Jeffery, but different diameter bullet) will be marked "Cordite 85 - 480 MAX".
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

400
You are probably more correct on the markings for 475 No2 Jeffery. I show both 80 and from 1925 ICL 85 grains, but I think on a Jeffery he would use 80 grains.

Yes, by the '20s both loads were offered, and Jeffery did make a few rifles for the 85 Cordite load, but they're not very common. The load that Kynoch currently offers is the 85 Cordite equivalent.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

I'd have to agree on chasing down the Jeffery if at all possible. If the bores are good and it's tight on face, she should shoot fine. There are some fine gunsmiths in South Africa and I am sure they could address any other problems such as metal finish or stocking.
About the misspelled "Jeffray". I have had 2 instances when engravers have mispelled words when reengraving guns. Seems to be a common occurance that they are concentrating on technique and do not notice the spelling.

BTW, the address on the barrel should be 13 King Street, London.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

Thank you all for the replies and info so far.

N E 450 No2
Tha barrel flats definetely say .475 EXP very clearly.

400 Nitro Express:
It says CORDITE 80 - 500 MAX so does that mean it is a No2??

Shikarafar1:
The mispelling "Jeffray" was not on the gun itself. It was on the office file of the person trying to register the gun that contained all the paperwork. The rifle clearly has the words "W. J. Jeffery & Co." on the right barrel and the address "13 King street, London" on the left barrel.

Other marks found on the flats of the barrels are:
Crown with "NP" underneath, a crown with "BV" underneath and a crown with "BP" underneath.

On the underside of the barrels it further states "Gusstahl Krup Essen".

I have contacted Paul Roberts at Jeffery's for further info. My issue is what it would cost approx to have the gun fully restored. If it is in the thousands of pounds I might not be interested. What would you think the potential value of such a restored gun be??

Good shooting!

I would have to say it is most likely a 475 No2 Jeffery, and will use 500gr .488 diameter Woodleigh's.

If you got the double for $800US and spent $8000US geting it fixed up you would still be ahead of the game.

Jefferys are good doubles [one of my favorites]and the 475 No2 is as good as any cartridge in the 450/470 class.

quote:

Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
I would have to say it is most likely a 475 No2 Jeffery, and will use 500gr .488 diameter Woodleigh's.

If you got the double for $800US and spent $8000US geting it fixed up you would still be ahead of the game.

Jefferys are good doubles [one of my favorites]and the 475 No2 is as good as any cartridge in the 450/470 class.

I doubt Paul Roberts will restore it for $8000.

I would look to Austria or even Australia to get it restored.

Man you guys just don't sleep!


Mickey or anyone, any contacts for such restoration work other than Paul Roberts? I've emailed him anyway.....

Bwanamich:

Yes, the proof marks say that the gun is chambered for .475 No. 2 Jeffery Nitro Express. "Cordite 80" rules out .475 3 1/4" as that cartridge was loaded with 75 grains Cordite. Likewise, "500MAX" rules out the other .475 No. 2 (the Eley) as it was loaded with a 480 grain bullet. The marks are exactly correct for a .475 No. 2 Jeffery. This chambering is correct for a Jeffery rifle built during this period. Yes, I believe the Woodleighs offered for this caliber are .488", although Kynoch factory drawings show a .489" 500 grain bullet.

BTW, Paul Roberts leased the rights to the Jeffery name from the owner, who is an American. The records are in the US. Historical data request are, I believe, handled twice a year. IIRC, the last was done in June or July.

Almost all pre-WWI Jeffery double rifles had Krupp barrels. The Jeffery firm was a retailer, and built none of these rifles themselves. Most of these (but not all) were built by Harry Leonard in Birmingham. If your gun is from Leonard, it will have Leonard's SN stamped just in front of the fore-end loop on the lower rib. From this period, Leonard's number will be 4 digits, my best guess being in the 1700 to 1800 range for this gun.

So, it needs a new stock, new sights made (which need to be made to match the originals), lots of external pits to deal with, etc. The bores need to have a lot of life left in them to make the cost of a full restoration a go. Look, most pre-war British rifles in the condition described can be saved, and can be worth good money if done RIGHT, as long as the barrels are good. However, the quality of work required gets expensive - fast. It can be done, and you can come out of it right side up, but only if the base price is "Give it a bowl of milk and maybe it will follow you home". Sounds like you've got that deal, so grab it.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

As my thread title says, "the excitement is too much".....

The more I read from you guys the more I want to do this.

400,
I did notice a 4 digit number as you state but did not note it down. I believe it started with the digits 15XX....Will need to take a 2nd look.

In my opinion, the rifle would definitely be worth grabbing if the bores are good. ...and don't worry too much about the puritan views held by other posters here, many of them are perfectionists! It is quite OK to stock up a double like this as cheaply as possible, and get it shooting. Then you can be hunting with it in the field without worrying too much about knocking it around. If you wish, it can always be fully restored later (usually this happens just before the point of sale!). If it is badly pitted externally (60 - 70% you say?), then it may never be anything more than a good shooter, and throwing thousands of dollars at it might not be wise. Just grab it, get it shooting, and start enjoying the thing.

BTW, if the engraving looks like this:



it is most likely a gaur from the Indian sub-continent or SE Asia, rather than a west-African buffalo.

That is the gun!!!

Doesn't seem like a very high grade engraving job does it?

Bwana
That engraving is typical on several Jeffery doubles I have seen.
I believe those doubles were for the Indian market.

The problem is I would not want to shoot it before having had it checked out by a good gunsmith. There are none around my neck of the woods so open to suggestions other than Paul Roberts/Jeffery's..

The only person I can recommend is JJ Perodeau at Champlin Arms in Enid Oklahoma USA.

Good thinking. Will definetely look him up for advice....need to take some photo's first....

Bwana
JJ has done a fair amount of work for me on my doubles and drillings as well as a lot of work for my friends. And I have seen quite a bit of work he has done at the shop. First class all the way. Metal work, finishing, and wood work.

mitch

I'm not sure what your situation is vis vis bringing a rifle to the US, or anywhere else for that matter.

Do you have to send it off or can you take it somewhere with you?

I would guess RSA is the best place since you are in Africa now. Jump on NE.com and get the name of some of the good smiths down there. Alf can probably help you out there also.

Marrakai is correct about the pitting. Some rifles will only be shooters but that's a good thing if you want to have a Double to hunt with. Marrakai is best at getting you Aussie guys also. They are some of the best in the world and are still reasonably priced. (if working on a Double is ever reasonable)

Mickey,
The easiest for me would be shipping to US or UK as I have PH friends from both that regularly fly up and down.....and I know gunsmiths from both that I trust and have worked with in the past that could do the job. Its all a matter of $$$

Off to take some pics and try to inspect the rifling and barrels again as best I can....That seems to be crucial.

Perhaps it looks like this rifle?


W.J. Jeffery in 475#2 Jeffery Shoots 500 grain .488 caliber bullets and is an elephant kill'n machine!
This one belongs to my friend David Guitar. It is one of the most pristine doubles I have ever seen. At 11 pounds it makes the 475#2 Jeffery managable.

That is it....or rather that is what it can become

Having seen these pictures, I think I am "sold" on it. You have a PM

I'd like to own D.G.'s rifle...

Here are a few photos of the gun. Quality isn't great due to the circumstances.
side view. The string was holding the stock to the metal but alowed the lever to be used....


view of the action form the top



rear triggers






Proof marks



example of pitting on external side of barrels


front sight



Today will be the deciding day. If the seller accepts my offer than its a go!

Bwanamich
Go to www.champlinarms.com
And check the prices for working on a double rifle. JJ Perodeau does excellent work.

Hello Mitch,

The barrels are very rough and would take a lot of work to make them look good. I fellow could strike them for hours to get the required results.

quote:

Originally posted by Bwanamich:
Here are a few photos of the gun. Quality isn't great due to the circumstances.
side view. The string was holding the stock to the metal but alowed the lever to be used....


view of the action form the top



rear triggers






Proof marks



example of pitting on external side of barrels


front sight



Today will be the deciding day. If the seller accepts my offer than its a go!