Gentlemen I have some of the Barnes solids in .408dia. 400grain with the moly coating,are these safe to shoot in my old 450/400 double?
Thanks.
Fred

I think the overwhelming consensus is that you will damage the barrels in vintage guns by using homogenous(mono-metal) bullets. They will not compress any when the rifling begins engraving them and will stress the barrels and the ribs. I would stick to a conventionally constructed bullet like the Woodleighs. Thats what I use in my Rodda 450/400. Lee.

I talked to Barnes tech guy about this. He claims they pressure tested barrels with the solids and all is well.

Having said that, I would not shoot them in either of my 450/400's.

If we can get North Fork to do some .408's that would be a good way to go.

quote:

Originally posted by WY:
I talked to Barnes tech guy about this. He claims they pressure tested barrels with the solids and all is well.

He is full of crap.

But all the Barnes guys are. One of them told me that they invented banded bullets and other manufacturers were copying them. Apparently he never saw a lead bullet from the 1870's, not did he see the GS Custom bullets that came out more than 10 years ago.

Use those Barnes bullets in your slingshot.

I talked to the tech guy at Barnes about that specific thing not long ago myself. He mentioned the test to me as well. I asked how they went about it specifically and almost wet myself laughing at the response. Dan's right, they're full of crap.

Don't use them in that gun. Call J. J. Perodeau at Champlin and ask him how many doubles he's seen ruined with monolithic solids in recent years. He's re-barreling one that I know of right now.
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"Serious rifles have two barrels, everything else just burns gunpowder."

quote:

I talked to Barnes tech guy about this. He claims they pressure tested barrels with the solids and all is well.

From what I understand, pressure isn't even the issue at all! Won't be using them in any of mine.

Bob

quote:

Use those Barnes bullets in your slingshot.

Classic, Dan!

quote:

Originally posted by WVFred:
Gentlemen I have some of the Barnes solids in .408dia. 400grain with the moly coating,are these safe to shoot in my old 450/400 double?
Thanks.
Fred

I use them in my single barreled rifles like a 375 H&H Whitworth African Express, but not in any of my double rifles, new, or old! If you don't have a .408 dia single barrel rifle,, drill holes through them, and use them for fishing weights!

Or maybe e-bay?

I won't try it in my gun, but I wonder if they(.408) would work in a .411 bore without overstressing it?

lee440,
.411" bullets are available in the correct dimensions to ensure no damage to an old double. No need to "make do", just use the right stuff.

Gerard, I am using .411 Woodleighs. I was just pondering, given that the mono's are so tough on bores and ribs, if being undersize that much would work. I have no intention of trying it. When "banded" monos are used to reduce pressures, I wonder how much undersize they would have to go to make them work, if possible, in an old double. I checked a Barnes .375 banded and the base is .375, the grooves are .360. Just curious! Lee.

Lee,
We need to distinguish betwen a drive band bullet and a grooved bullet. Some people call our drive band bullets grooved bullets but they are wrong. Similarly, some bullets are called drive band bullets when they are actually grooved bullets. Telling the difference is quite easy, regardless of what the bullet is called.

A grooved bullet has an ogive that meets the shank, or steps up to a section, that is at barrel groove diameter. The grooves that are manufactured into the shank bear no relationship to the bore diameter of the barrel. They could be shallower or deeper. The bullet therefore rides and centers primarily in the grooves of the barrel and the material displaced by the rifling is compressed mostly into the body of the bullet. The rifling will engrave a section of the ogive and the majority of the shank.

A drive band bullet is manufactured to precisely fit the bore diameter of the barrel and the ogive meets the bullet shank at barrel bore diameter. The drive bands are at groove diameter of the bore, are very thin and serve only to seal the gas from blowing by the bullet and to rotate the bullet. As the rifling cuts the drive bands, the displaced material is moved rearwards into the space preceding the next band. The rifling will not engrave the ogive or the shank to any significant depth, if at all.

The drive band bullet rides on the faces of the lands with only the lightest of pressure on the barrel wall. The cutting of the drive bands is so light that you can drop a drive band bullet into the chamber and tap it through the barrel and out the muzzle, with a copper rod. This requires less pressure to acomplish than the full length engraving of even the softest of jacketed bullets.

For more clarity, see here and here. Note that we do not use brass alloys, as in our opinion, the tensile strength is too high. We use copper and do no swaging of the shape so there is no work hardening of the finished product.