Hi all!

I have a Sako .30-06 and would like to rebarrel it to a caliber with light recoil so that the groups don`t move around with different shooting positions. Unfortunately the long action isn`t the best for calibers like 22-250, 6mm Norma BR, 243Win etc. Any suggestions? Wish I had a shorter action, but having just finished a laminated stock which I like very much, it would be perfect if a change of barrel was enough.

Regards

The long actions will work for most short calibers, depending on the amount of case taper and assuming similar headsize.

My over-the-course match rifle is a long action 700 Rem in .308 which has worked just fine in the '06 mag box with the '06 follower.

Redial

My choice would be 6.5-06.

If you dont want a wildcat, a 25-06, or .270. should suit you.

MM

Rebarreling a rifle is like burning a house down to build another. It makes more sense to keep that 30/06 and just buy another rifle in a smaller caliber.

Now if there is something wrong with that 30/06 barrel by all means replace it but as others asked what do you mean by it moving around in what postions?

With the long action, go with a 25-06. I love mine. Outstanding power for deer but moderate recoil. (30-06 isn't that bad.)

I've got a switch barrel in 30/06 and 257 Roberts...now that's a mild combination to consider.

jpb,

My rifle is pillarbedded with a free floating barrel...
I reload...
and I have a .375...

I have no problem whatsoever with recoil, except for the accuracy thing. Seems like I`m the only one with this opinion. Thanks though for your answers everybody.
Hereby I close this topic.

Regards

Sako - Like many of the posters, I'm a little concerned about the "changing point of impact."
I don't think the rifle shoots differently, but certainly we all shoot a little differently (and with VARYING ACCURACY) from different positions.

The real issue is obviously "recoil related" and will obviously be worse as the recoil goes up.

But this is no matter for your question. As one poster said, it is a shame to tear up one good rifle just to change calibers. I strongly suspect the job will involve slightly more than just screwing in a different barrel. I imagine there will be some additional RE-bedding of any new barrel for peak accuracy as well. My point being this may not be quite the simple project you imagine. (Although it should not be major)

I would ask you this question. HOW BAD is the problem with the /06? Is it seriously affecting your hunting or what? I can't imagine this is a REAL issue...unless you are more recoil sensitive than you realize. And there is nothing wrong or UN-manly about being recoil sensitive.

It sounds to me, Sako, almost like you have noticed you shoot a little differently and due to the recoil to a slightly different POI when you are standing than you do when you are much more solid and in a prone position. OK. Big deal. So do all the rest of us. For hunting situations it's a NOT an issue as far as I'm concerned. Furthermore, this is going to be somewhat a factor regardless of the caliber. It's not a big deal.

All it means is out to, let us say, 100 yards, you can shoot standing up. From 100 - 250 you should lean against a rest such as a tree or across a rock. (Although your body will recoil slightly FROM that) Or perhaps take a sitting or kneeling position. And if you want to shoot at something 250 or more, get in a prone position or something very solid.

I think, Sako, you are concerned about an issue every hunter must face and the cure does not lie in changing guns but just getting more experience IN THE FIELD with what you have. LEARN what YOU can do and HOW you need to shoot to deliver it. This is the real solution.

But if you simply want less recoil in this long action rifle.......a 25/06 is going to be the easiest solution. You could even go to .243/06 since you are a reloader but then you would get into a bullet problem. In Sweden I think you generally need larger bullets than the 6mm bore can deliver. So, I wouldn't go below the 25/06 and the 6.5/06 would be an even better caliber...BUT by the time you go back up to 6.5 you will find you have not escaped much recoil from where you began.

Bottom line is I think you just need to go shoot your /06 more and get to know the gun. (I take you at your word that you like the gun and recoil is NOT a problem.) Good luck

Hello Sako

How much change in POI do you see? I have noticed the same thing with some guns, but most of the time on sage flats I shoot from prone using a fanny pack for a rest so it's not much of a problem. Any rifle will recoil a small distance before the bullet leaves the barrel, and the hold you use will affect which direction the rifle moves. It seems like lighter bullets create less felt recoil, so the 25-06 might be a natural next step.

I rebarreled my 30-06 to .224-6mm Rem with a 1 in 8" twist. Shoots 75 grain AMAX's at 3500 fps under 1/2" at 100 yards. I agree with those who have said 25-06 and 270 Win. Add to the list 7x57 or 275 Rigby if you prefer!

Good Hunting,

Resight the rifle from prone. The bench is there just to test loads. Once the rifle is re-sighted, check POI changes from sitting, squatting, standing. Keep in mind that each of these positions will be more unsteady then the one before, so groups will suffer accordingly. After this exercise you should know whether you really have a POI problem. - Dan

Rebarrel to you own great Swedish cartridge, the 6.5X55mm. It has light recoil, and is one of the best target rounds in the world!! It is also plenty adequate for hunting, if you use the heavier bullets in .264"!!

Sako: Your English is just fine (and a quantum leap better than my non-existant Swedish).

I understand your problem, and agree with Dan Belisle. I suspect that you will find your rifle grouping in a very similar place when fired offhand, kneeling, prone, etc., which indicates that the change occurs because of the position or possibly the type of rest you are using from the bench.

Try placing your front sand bag closer to the action, under the heavier part of the forearm. When the sandbag is placed near the tip of the stock it can cause the gun to "kick" away from the rest and throw the shots high. This can happen even with a floated barrel.

Good luck.

.257 Roberts AI, 3" OAL, 26" barrel #5 contour 1-9 twist for 120 gr bullets, 1-10 for 100 gr or less. Longer barrel if you like.

[ 09-21-2002, 19:21: Message edited by: DigitalDan ]

I would also go .25-06. If you wanted to shoot match bullets, then a 6.5-06 or even a 6.5x.284 would do well in your long action.

In addition to the advise you have received, I'd like to suggest that you get a Kick-Ez recoil pad. The 30-06 does not have much of a recoil. What is happening, I believe, is that stock is hitting you on top of the shoulder and collar bone. This is painful. I'd suggest that you adjust your position so that stock stikes you more in the front of the shoulder.

If your barrel is worn and needs replacing, you ought to pick a new caliber on the basis of what you use the rifle to hunt and the ranges at which you hunt. For example, if the animals are in the 400 pound range and you hunt at ranges of 300 yds, I'd look hard at the .270. If you hunt large animals at ranges under 300 yds, I'd look at the 9.3x62. In between, I'd look at the .280 and the 30-06. If your reload, don't forget to look at the Howell cartridges which get magnum performance out from a case that is slightly longer.

All these cases use the same case as the 30-06, so you should have minimum rail problems. Each offers a different benefit. Take your time. Ku-dude

[ 10-02-2002, 04:46: Message edited by: Ku-dude ]

Sako,

I'll give you a little different idea. You seem to be an experienced shooter, so I am not going to question your marksmanship. But is it possible that your eye-position in the scope is just different enough from the prone that you may be getting a different point-of-impact?

If you do choose to re-barrel I too would recommend the 25-06.

Barry

For bench testing I've found the PAST recoil shields to be very helpful. Turns a painful punch into a shove. I would expect some of the higher quality recoil pads to offer similar relief.

Also, if you keep the reloads to a modest velocity (~2700 fps with 150 gr bullets) the recoil seems way more tolerable. You may need a faster powder to get accurate loads that slow, though. I use H or IMR4895.

Folks may comment on the "mild" recoil of the -06, but you don't see many High Power shooters using it or anything stiffer (and the recoil from a Garand is way less than from a sporting weight bolt gun). For Hunting I'd agree that the -06 is mild, but for bench and prone target shooting it's pretty stiff unless you load it down.

I think you may be happier with a 6.5x55 or .257 Roberts if you shoot a lot more paper than game.

Thanks guys for your answers!

However, I have decided that I will leave the -06 as it is and build me another rifle. When I have the money that is...

I loaded up some Hornady 168gr. BTHP Match and the accuracy was ok. A three shot group was 2 inches at 220 yards, shot from prone with Versa-Pod bipods. BUT this time 12 inches to the right (no wind at the time). As I said earlier, I will shoot this rifle a lot more to figure out my errors. Unfortunately I`m not that experienced, and that`s why I ask questions...

Regards

Sako, I tend to think your problem could be one or a combination of these:

(1) A change in your eye alignment with the scope as you use different shooting positions. This could easily account for considerable group shift.

(2) Differing pressures on the forearm of the stock as you assume different positions. I'm betting you hold the forearm farther to the front when prone than you do for a standing shot, right? If the barrel isn't totally free-floated, then holding the stock at different spots can affect where the group strikes. Personally, I like PLENTY of room between my barrel and the stock to reduce just this problem.

Just to support something else that was said, I target shoot with 30-06 a lot and always use my PAST strap-on shoulder pad. Shooting from a bench or prone doesn't let your body "roll" with the recoil as it does when you're standing or sitting, so 50-75 rounds of 06 can give you a really tender shoulder, which will lead to a flinching problem sooner or later. Better to use some kind of recoil pad, even on light loadings, and then you don't have to worry so much about developing a bad flinch.

Good luck, and let us know when you solve this problem.

I think you're doing right by leaving the rifle a 30-06. Rebarreling a 30-06 to a smaller caliber would be like turning a Swiss Army knife into a dedicated can opener.

The aught-six is more versatile than any of the other options.

If you held my feet to the fire, I'd take it to a .270, though. But some of the kickin-est bastards I've ever pulled the trigger on have been 270's...

It is true that bench postions can give a different POI than field positions.

I like Dan Belisle's advice--resight from prone, and check at close range in a couple of sitting positions. You aren't going to be able to shoot accurately enough from most field positions to see any difference in POI, other than the prone.

There are many light loads for the 30-06 if you so desire.

If you haven't yet tried this load you should: 165 grain bullet and 57.5 grains of h4350, or in this one case, IMR 4350 will also do nicely.

If you're into accuracy, you're going to find that recipe delivers...

Dan Newberry
green 788

Sako,

When your able get a nice mild mannered chambering and shoot it a LOT! Keep at the 30-06 and load yourself some lighter loads and work up as it becomes more tolerable. You may also consider adding some weight to the gunstock.