No doubt the 6.5 has proven itself using the 08 and 284 cases.

The 6.5 - 140 gr bullet has this large sectional density which makes you use volume in the case to compensate for the bullet length.

Why not use the 06 ackley improved, or maybe the 264 hawk, case to recover lost volume, and use more slow burning powder. With more powder, higher velocity, the time in the air will be less, which will decrease windage effects. Have I overlooked something??????

My next build will be a 6.5 and reviewing all the options.

Thanks,
MikeF

I take a serious look at wildcats quite often.....then summarily dismiss them.

If the standard 6.5-06 was a factory round, I'd have one the next day! IMO it's the perfect mule deer and Caribou cartridge!

No flies on a 6.5-06 or the AI version either. Z-hat would be the last I would deal with for the hawk. I happen to prefer the Gibbs if I'm going with a wildcat or my 6.5PDK. My view is if you are not going std why leave free capacity on the table.

Another option is the 260 Howell. Ken designed it for AHR but last I talked to them they never had a reamer cut.

in say a 24" barrel I doubt you would give up more than 100fps to the 264Wmag. Now longer barrel SLOOOW powder the 264 would pull further ahead.

I built one and would not do it again. First, you waste barrel time and life fireforming. And no the impact location is not the same between the two. Secondly, I found that the necks split if the cases are not annealed between each action, i.e. initial sizing, fireforming, each subsequent firing. I tried it both ways, necking 25-06 up and 270 down (and even down fron 30-06). Same result. Thirdly, I did not gain that much over the 6.5x55 in a modern action. I have one of those as well. Lastly, I gained NOTHING versus the 264WM I have with a Lilja barrel and 26 inches. In fact with the right powders, I lost 200fps minimum.

Having said that, would I do the standard 6.5-06 again, ABSOLUTELY. I just think the AI is too much pain in the ass.

quote:

Secondly, I found that the necks split if the cases are not annealed between each action, i.e. initial sizing, fireforming, each subsequent firing. I

I wonder why that would be??
I have a 6.5 gibbs, which blows the shoulder foreward a good bit more then an ackley does, and have zero problems. I use 270 win brass, once fired usually, sometimes new. Put a little secondery shoulder on the neck, load, and fire. I dont think I've lost a single case that I remember.

quote:

Secondly, I found that the necks split if the cases are not annealed between each action, i.e. initial sizing, fireforming, each subsequent firing. I

I wonder why that would be??
I have a 6.5 gibbs, which blows the shoulder foreward a good bit more then an ackley does, and have zero problems. I use 270 win brass, once fired usually, sometimes new. Put a little secondery shoulder on the neck, load, and fire. I dont think I've lost a single case that I remember.

I've made my PDK wildcat cases for years from 280 Rem cases. Taking them up to as large as 416 down to 243 then blowing the shoulder foward and increasing the shoulder dia to .46. I do normally anneal after forming. ONly ones I normally lost some brass on were 375 and larger.

Mikefr: I built and shoot the 6.5-06 Wildcat! I mention the wild cat, because it is not the same cartridge as the 6.5-06 A-Square. The difference is throating. If you choose to shoot ONLY the longer 140's etc, the throat of the A-Square or one of the other wildcats will be necessary. As in the A-square for example, the throating is about .250, in the Wildcat about .020. This is a pet peave of mine, as I had a builder build a 6.5-06, and he wound up chambering the A-Sqaure, and I wanted to also shoot the shorter bullets.

A neat way to go, may be to build the A-Square, and blow the shoulder forward in an AI configueration, if you are only wanting to shoot the longer bullets, as you will not be able to reach the lands with the 120's, maybe the 130's too, but that should solve your powder capacity concerns..

Jerry

quote:

Mikefr: I built and shoot the 6.5-06 Wildcat! I mention the wild cat, because it is not the same cartridge as the 6.5-06 A-Square. The difference is throating. If you choose to shoot ONLY the longer 140's etc, the throat of the A-Square or one of the other wildcats will be necessary. As in the A-square for example, the throating is about .250, in the Wildcat about .020. This is a pet peave of mine, as I had a builder build a 6.5-06, and he wound up chambering the A-Sqaure, and I wanted to also shoot the shorter bullets.

A neat way to go, may be to build the A-Square, and blow the shoulder forward in an AI configueration, if you are only wanting to shoot the longer bullets, as you will not be able to reach the lands with the 120's, maybe the 130's too, but that should solve your powder capacity concerns..

Jerry::

Did you have the same problems as other when going for the AI ????

Mike:

I have never had a problem with most of the AI cartridges, except a few were finicky feeding. If you want to go the AI, I would use new 25-06 brass, and if the rifle is chambered properly, you should be good to go. If you crack a neck now and then, you may have run into a lot of "hard" brass. Aneal the neck and again you are good to go.

No worrries.

Jerry

Why not just build a 264 Win? Perfect in every way and brass is readily available.

quote:

Originally posted by Pancho:
Why not just build a 264 Win? Perfect in every way and brass is readily available.

My kind of guy!

quote:

Why not just build a 264 Win? Perfect in every way and brass is readily available

But everybody has one of those.

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:

quote:

Why not just build a 264 Win? Perfect in every way and brass is readily available

But everybody has one of those.

Not everyone has a .264 whizbangcowthumper!...now there's something to strive for!

i like my 6.5x284 but like my 6.5 weatherby mag more. Just resize 257 weatherby brass and bang away. Actually all the 6.5's are really good

The problem I see with the smaller 6.5's, such as the 260 Rem, they are built on medium actions and are short throated...thus requiring the longer bullets to be seated in the powder capactiy. When I built my 260 Rem I done so on a longer action and I throated it out for use with 140 grain bullets which it throws out quite respectfully.

The problem I see with the 264 Win Mag is you don't have to have a stupid belt on the case.

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:

quote:
Why not just build a 264 Win? Perfect in every way and brass is readily available

But everybody has one of those.

Not everyone has a .264 whizbangcowthumper!...now there's something to strive for!

OK let me rephrase that. The are a lot more 264Wmags in the world than 6.5-06 or AIs. I hate showing up in camp with the came chambering as others. I like to be different.

All that said I do have a set of 264Wmag dies in the drawer but no 264. So it still might happen.

Ramrod....dear sir:....with all due respects....if one showed up in any deer camp I've ever been in and you had a .264 Win Mag....it's entirely unlikely that anyone else has one as well....they are truly rare and so is the .257 Weatherby!

I mean ...heavens man....it's not like you showed up with a .30-06 or something!

quote:

I mean ...heavens man....it's not like you showed up with a .30-06 or something!

Just yanking your chain. You know me I'd give it a 95% chance I would be showing up with a PDK anyway. I know only one person I've hunted with that uses a 264. Like we have discussed in the past I'm still trying to decide between simply using a magnum MKX action and going with a 264 vs having my missing 6.5PDK reamer replaced.

While I do like to be different I'm not against std chamberings.

Heck now days wonder how many even show up with a 30-06. That is something I have never hunted with.

Yeah but you 264 guys, are not allowing for opening up the bolt face, and altering the magazine rails. The 6.5 on the 30-06 case is just easier to build, and the statistics are pretty fancy!!

Jerry

I know it's not a common cartridge, but I'm moving nto the M03 system for my traveling gun. I was able to pick up a lifetime supply of brass and a barrel for the 6.5x65 RWS. It's a nice cartridge with a case capacity near the 6.5x06AI or the 6.5 Rem Mag. I'm looking forward to developing the loads for it. I have a 6.5x06 on a Whitworth with a Shilen select Match bbl that a wonderful combo and several shades of Steyr in 260 remington that have also proven exceptionally accurate. I wanted a 6.5 for the M03 setup and am hoping this does the job.

Hairbol:
I haven't thought of the 6.5X65RWS, only because I had forgotten about it. I'd build that one too!

Jerry

About ten years ago I asked Bohica a similar question. "Why not use the 06 case instead of a 284 case for an accurate long range rifle". If I recall correctly, we couldn't think of anything that would make a bit of difference. Besides being easy to do in a Rem 700 long action. I'd go with a plain Jane 6.5-06 if it were me. DW

quote:

I'd go with a plain Jane 6.5-06 if it were me.

Thanks to all of you for your input. Unless a snake jumps out to bite me, I will be going with the the 6.5-06.

Thanks again.

I shot the 6.5-06 Gibbs many years ago..It was a pain to form cases in and I had the handy dandy hydralic case former from Gibbs himself..You hit it with a hammer and 30 wt. oil spewed all over you and it half formed the case..

the end result was that it was not any better than a .270 Win. The chronograph was a wonder btw, it changed my thinking big time...Later I go one of the .264s and got more bang than velocity and again returned to the .270 and 30-06..most of my life was that back to the .270 and 06 until at about 50 I gave up on trying to improve on the .270 and 06..It can't be done boys.

Ray,

This is about improving the experience of loading and tinkering more than the cartridge! But you knew that

I've been very keen to do the 6.5-06 and reached the same conslusion. The gains were there, but if you choose the .270 bullets carefully they aren't much. I spent a lot of time with ballistics calculators to be sure.

That said, one day I'll probably do one!

Thing is that here in SA components, reamers and dies etc. aren't all over the place, so going away from standard can cause you more "fun" than you bargained for and simply become a PITA!

ARWL & Ray: The 270 Winchester is my all time favorite cartridge, with the 30-06 and the 35 Whelen along with the 220 Swift right behind. Must mean I am a dinosauer. That said, I built a 6.5-06 Wildcat, am very satisfied with it. I like to shoot a varity of bullets, and I prefer to do that with multiple rifles, rather than the one gun, does it all group. No fun there! Arguing ballistics between the 6.5/270/7mm-06's is an exercise in futility, for they are all great performers. This thread though is about the 6.5-06 and with it you can't go wrong. My favortie load is a Sierra 120 Grain Spitzer @3175fps. Great on antelope and deer. And consistantly produces groups now, after over 700 rounds, under .75". I guess it took all those rounds to "season" the Shaw barrel!!


Jerry

How about some German cartridges?

6.5x68

6.5x64 Brenneke

6.5x63 Messner Magnum

6.5x65

I'll just stick with my 260 rem. my next 6.5 will be a creedmore..

My next rifle will be a 6.5-06 Ackley.

6.5x284 & don't look back!