You have talked highly of 6.5's with 160's at 2400 or so.

How would you think a 7mmBR would compare lobbing a say 150 ballistic tip at 2500? I ask because that is what Sierra achieved in tests and the ballistic tips are on sale at shooters pro shop. I could double duty use it in my 708's. It might do about 2400 in my 21" but a Chrono will let me know. Just thinking about that interesting combo. The penetration at that speed should be tremendous, as I know I shot a 168 in that BR clear through a tree about 14-18" around, even though it was 'dead wood' I was impressed.

Just thinking of this load for shorter range use wondering if the penetration and 'extra momentum' offered some advantages over lighter bullets at higher speeds. Taking it to a higher level in momentum would be the 338 bore on the BR case, called the 338 whisper, a 200gr ought to be a 'thumper' under 100-150 yds, but that 'specialty round' might make a unique handgun round say in a contender pistol.

I'd rate a 160 grain 6.5 mm, at 2400 MV as better than a 150 grain ballistic tip at 2500 fps, hands down, for penetration and lethality...

that being said, I would never ever hesitate to carry a 7mm 150 grain ballistic tip at 2500 fps MV out hunting ANY deer anywhere,.....

in fact, I'd rate a 7mm 150 grain BTip at 2500 a hell of a lot better for something like Moose and Elk, than the same bullet flying out of a 7 Mag at 3,000 fps...

below 2700 fps, BTips do some pretty decent penetrations... at higher velocity, they tend to blow up..

I'd say you are looking good either way in my book...... just because one may be considered better, the second place pick does infer that it is not a darn good choice for 99% of the work you'd carry it on!

Thanks for your feedback, I appreciate your reply as I know you have a good bit of experience under your belt. I have no idea on trajectory having looked at charts, but your comments in the past is very true, 'a few clicks' anyway, thanks. I have wondered in the past what might be more efficient killers in a small case like this, a light weight 120-130 doing 2600-2800 or a 140 or heavier doing 2400-2500, and MOST anticipated shots would be 200-250 max, though I want to be prepared to take a shot further if needed, IF I am confident in my placing the slug, AND the bullets ability to do the job.

Just spoke today with one of the country's top regarded pistol shots, who knew someone who shot a deer and killed it fine between 300-400 yds with a 7BR xp100, and believe it was with a 140gr. Perhaps a factory load, not sure, but in a handgun that is impressive shooting, and killing, but considering the accuracy of those pistols, AND many of the 'xp enthusiast' I am not surprised. Perhaps that was an opportunity that they felt was not worth passing up, and they felt confident in placing the shot.

Faster rounds might make hitting easier at a distance, but slower rounds don't necessarily mean inadequate potential to do the job, after shot placement.

I asked the ? as I like the trajectory of the 120-130, but feel the 140/150 carries more energy further.
Thanks.

6.5 Br: I am a single shot pistol hunter, so I have some experience with the lower velocity levels that shorter pistol barrels produce compared to rifles. I don't believe you will find the trajectories of the lower velocity high BC loads to be all that limiting, especially if you use the higher BC heavier weight bullets.

My 13 inch barreled 6.5 Mini-Dreadnaught is an example: Shooting Nosler's 140 Gr Partition and sighted in 6 inches high at 100 yards, it is 7 inches high at 200 yards and dead on at 300, and only 11.8 inches down at 400 yards. You hold on the bottom of the chest at 100 to 200 yards, where you want the bullet to hit at 300, and on the back at 400 yards. You can shoot from the muzzle out to 400 yards and never have to hold off the hair.

Partitions need about 2,000 fps to insure expansion, so the 2,533 fps muzzle velocity of my load limits the range to a little over 200 yards with the Nosler Partitions. Changing to the 140 Gr SST will insure expansion out to about as far as most of us should be shooting at game and gain even more ballistic coefficient. The Partition has a BC of .490 and the SST's has a BC of .521 for the 140 Gr weight in 6.5 bullets. In 7 mm, I believe the 150 Gr BT is about as good as it gets for a high BC.

The bad reputations the BTs and SSTs have gotten are a result of people driving them faster than they are designed to be driven. I saw a recent report of a 5 x 5 bull elk being taken with a 120 Gr BT out of a 14 inch barreled 6.5 x 284 and it was a complete pass through. You are absoultly right, dropping the velocity with BTs and SSTs will give beautiful expansion and penetration with acceptable trajectories and carry more energy down range than the lighter weight bullets will...Rusty.

quote:

6.5 Mini-Dreadnaught

Rusty, appreciate the info. I shot a deer years ago with a 7tcu, 140 ballistic tip at 30 yds, the load had NOT been formed yet in the 14" TC, so it was doing about 2k muzzle, vs 2200 if formed, so I know the bullet will kill at less than 2000 fps impact. It was at dusk, and a tree was in the middle of the deer, I aimed at the head/neck juncture with 2x EER Leupold, and it either took a step or I hit some brush, as the bullet his behind the ribs broadside! THANKFULLY the bullet expanded some, about a quarter to half dollar size contusion either side under the hide, vs a 270 130 BTip at 80 yds, that looked like a full size plate diameter of radial damage! Anyway, I was able due to a steady drip of blood able to track it down after 1-2 hours, it only went about 100 yds.

I might expect a good hit from my BR with a bullet that will expand at slower speeds will work down to about 2000 impact speeds with placement.

I do hear the 120 btips are 'beefy' and penetrate very well vs what you might expect. Likely much better than the 120 Vmax which is a very accurate bullet as well.

I may try using a higher POI, as I have traditionally stuck with a dead zero at the 200 yd line, and shoot at 300-400 but I am really beginning to believe the 3-400 yd shots are going to be VERY difficult without exact range known, and estimated hold. I don't want to worry about clicking a scope before a shot, so I may just experiment. I RARELY have shot over 200-300, but want to be prepared for the rare occurences that sometimes happen in the field.

Thanks. BTW, truth be known, I would have more fun shooting everything under 50yds, as the challenge of getting close is more fun, and harder than placing a long shot, with an accurate weapon, when you know your range and load. The problem, my hunting partner owns the land I do most my hunting so I have to abide by his rules, and mostly hunt in stands that can have long shots, and that is fine, but I really want to do some pistol hunting again with my 41 magnums, and like to try my 357 Marlin out-shoots a 158 about 1900-2000 and it sounds meek vs a standard rifle load, but it tears the heck out of water filled bottles, I guess do to some good momentum and surface area of a 35 cal.

Thanks.

Rusty,

By the way, I looked up what that ctg was based on, is that a Swift necked up?

If so, it seems that the Swift was made from the 6mm Lee Navy, similar to the 6mm Rem, if I am right, which is about like a 7x57 necked down, so where I am going is, isn't that 6.5 very similar in capacity and performance to a 6.5 Swede? If I am correct, it just would seem easier to use it........but is yours a contender or encore? Thanks.

quote:

Originally posted by Rusty Hook:
6.5 Br: I am a single shot pistol hunter, so I have some experience with the lower velocity levels that shorter pistol barrels produce compared to rifles. I don't believe you will find the trajectories of the lower velocity high BC loads to be all that limiting, especially if you use the higher BC heavier weight bullets.

My 13 inch barreled 6.5 Mini-Dreadnaught is an example: Shooting Nosler's 140 Gr Partition and sighted in 6 inches high at 100 yards, it is 7 inches high at 200 yards and dead on at 300, and only 11.8 inches down at 400 yards. You hold on the bottom of the chest at 100 to 200 yards, where you want the bullet to hit at 300, and on the back at 400 yards. You can shoot from the muzzle out to 400 yards and never have to hold off the hair.

Partitions need about 2,000 fps to insure expansion, so the 2,533 fps muzzle velocity of my load limits the range to a little over 200 yards with the Nosler Partitions. Changing to the 140 Gr SST will insure expansion out to about as far as most of us should be shooting at game and gain even more ballistic coefficient. The Partition has a BC of .490 and the SST's has a BC of .521 for the 140 Gr weight in 6.5 bullets. In 7 mm, I believe the 150 Gr BT is about as good as it gets for a high BC.

The bad reputations the BTs and SSTs have gotten are a result of people driving them faster than they are designed to be driven. I saw a recent report of a 5 x 5 bull elk being taken with a 120 Gr BT out of a 14 inch barreled 6.5 x 284 and it was a complete pass through. You are absoultly right, dropping the velocity with BTs and SSTs will give beautiful expansion and penetration with acceptable trajectories and carry more energy down range than the lighter weight bullets will...Rusty.

You know, Rusty is a perfect example of what I am talking about! I watch these silohuette guys at our range at times.. and they don't seem handicapped in the least!

They know their equipment and its capabilities a lot better than the average rifle hunter! and they shoot it a lot more!

I for one think that pistol silohuette shooters and benchrest guys are a 'waterwell' full of information that most of we rifle hunters and varmint shooters never ever tap the bottomless pit of knowledge these guys have!

Like on this forum, " is the 30/30 big enough for elk???"... all of these rifle 'experts' are busy telling you NO!! and spout off tons of reasons for it....

Ask pistol silohuette shooters the same question and they not only TELL you HELL YES! they then give you tons of tips on the finer points of accomplishing the task!

so why is the same 30/30 round considered a BB gun, with a 20 inch barrel at best by tons of rifle shooters.. and a very capable cannon, by pistol shooters in a 15 inch barrel....

The magnum guys can preach until they are blue in the face to me! I'll listen to a pistol silohuette shooter any day of the week before a magnum "expert"...

Thanks Rusty!

cheers
seafire