The last paragraph in my last post was written in response to your comment about my "beloved 260". I do like the 260, currently have 17 of them, but don't think that it can do anything that several more common/popular cartridges can do just as well.

I think that the 7MM-08 succeeded where the 284 failed because Layne Simpson championed the 7MM-08 and Jack O'Connor slighted the 284. Also, there were few short action bolt action rifles cataloged in 284, while the 7MM-08 was mostly chambered in short action bolt actions. I've long been a 284 guy, but don't think that there any good reasons to buy/build another.

I guess that we will have to agree to disagree. Good luck with your 250-3000s and keep me in mind if you need another, as many of mine need to find a home where they are appreciated.

Jeff

My apologies for mis-itepreting your 260-oriented comment. Hopefully it will survive, though even if is doesn't, it won't be because of it merits, which are many. Americans, save for a devoted group "in the know", have always been, quite unjustly, 6.5 averse. Unfortunately, really.

As I recall Boddington thought the 7-08 was a joke when it came out, and wrote as much. But I do recall Simpson drooling over it; I also recall the growing handgun-hunting (Milek) and shooting community taking a serious interest in it as well.

Truth is, I suppose, that by 1905 Mauser had already designed a wide enough variety of rounds to cover all senesible hunting needs, everything since has been affectation to one degree or another. Even the mighty '06 is nothing more than a practical performance photocopy of the 8x57...

Well, I'll keep you in mind, and I certainly can provide an enthustiast and caring home for any nice bolt 250s, especially models 70s, and I might make an exception for a nicely-grained 77(R,RL,RSI). However, I've gotten in the habit of rebarreling over and over (I shoot A LOT, practice makes perfect and is fun, especially with a 250). My current 250 is just starting (500 rounds or so) its third barrel.

I only have 1 77 RSI in 250-3000. Bought it in 1984 and hunted with it quite often in past years. Prior to the introduction of the 260, I was a frequent 6.5x55 user and shot all of my plains game, except my warthog, with a Winchester 70 Fwt using Norma 156 grain factory loads.

I've shooting the 25 WSSM quite a bit these days and think that it is also a nice cartridge. I think that it will fail to capture the public's interest and fall from whatever grace it could have achieved.

Jeff

It's nice that real rifle afficiandos like their personal cartridges. Since similar cartridges will produce similar results the argument could be made for other 6mm to 6.5 mm rounds.

The 250 Savage was the first factory round here to top 3000 fps and was chambered in the very popular 99 Savage rifle. It was a neat combo for it's day and it had some proponents including Larry Kohler who wrote "Shots At Whitetails" I recall a note by a Arthur Tedman on how he passed up a shot on a whitetail with his 250 as it was too far.

That's the crux of it. Unless your a beginner the 250 is kind of light for all shots. Neither does it fill the magazine of most guns length wise. To some extent everything is a compromise and the 250 goes bang. Good luck with it. I like old guns but ............

I have been sniffing around the 25 WSSM, and I may spring for one when the local shop lowers the price more (they aren't selling well they tell me). I prefer the wood stock version.

A while back I had a 250 AI barreled up, with a light varmint barrel. After 1200 or so rounds I re-bored to 257 AI, but then I got sick of all the fireforming, so 600 or so rounds later I re-bored again to 25-284 (set the barrel back 0.5" or so to get a good fit and better throat). All incarnations were wonderfully accurate, the 25-284 perhaps the most, even with the somewhat worn barrel. The Smith was rolling his eyes at me during that episode... All the dies got expensive, but fortunately I found a 25 caliber nut who wanted all of them, once my interest had passed. Back to basics I went with the standard 250-3000 and 257. In fact, I re-barreled that action (another 722) to a featherweight 257 that is probably the most accurate sporter-weight rifle I currently own. Those 722 actions never seem to wear out, I've never even had any trouble with the extractors - go figure.

quote:

Originally posted by Savage99:
Unless your a beginner the 250 is kind of light for all shots.

Oh Lord, give me strength...

I have 2 Winchester 70s in 25 WSSM. The $429 Black Shadow is among the most accurate factory rifles that I've owned and actually shot. It did require some sanding of the barrel channel and a little trigger adjustment, but with that minimal effort it was shooting 1.25"+/- with the 120 grain SBT factory ammo once I zeroed the scope. It shoots the 85 grain SBTs into nice groups too, but they land about 3" high and 2" right from the 120 grain POA at 100 yards.

I did the 250AI thing twice, once with a Ruger 77 RSI and then with a Savage 99CD, but couldn't learn to like that cartridge. I rechambered the 77 RSI to 25 Souper and the 99CD to 25-284, both being a significant improvement over the 250AI.

I have a Ruger 77R and a Savage 99CD in 257AI, but never find myself using either rifle despite having 100 rounds loaded for each of them. The 99CD has been a serious disappointment as it has chronic feeding problems. The guy who did the work on it, Ray Montgomery in Grand Junction, CO, tried to convince me that the 40 degree shoulder wouldn't work well in the Savage, but I wanted what I wanted and consequently got what I got.

I think that Savage99 is wrong about the 250-3000 being a beginner's cartridge for the same reasons that the 410 bore isn't a good choice for beginning shotgun shooters.

Jeff

I have been very close twice to making a 25 Souper, but I just kept thinking about the 260 (or 6.5-08 before that). I am a huge 6.5 fan, so I have always been torn between the two families of rounds. The 6.5x57 has been a favorite of mine for some time now, and my current one has a particular love for the heavier bullets (129+), though it won't do better than 1 MOA (on a good day) with ANY 120 I've tried - weird. The 260 is a top notch round, and I could easily replace my 250-3000, 257, and 6.5x57 trio with a nice 260, but what fun would that be?

I felt it was unfortunate the Winchester decided to go with a .25 on the wssm case, as opposed to the wsm case. If they chose the later, we would have had a real contender for the .257 Weatherby spot. Now it fits right in with the 25-06/.257 Roberts. I've still considered the purchase of one of these, but since I just aquired a 25-06, it won't be anytime soon. I do, however like the .260 Rem. I feel the same about most 6.5mm cartridges. With the exception of the 6.5-284 which is undoubtably accurate, I feel all the others are great hunting rounds. The .284 cased variant is simply to overkill for a hunting round, and that extra powder, as has been proved over and over again the last hundred years is uncalled for in a hunting round. (That and I dislike cartridges that have been claimed by the benchrest community. But my other excuse sounds better! ) There's no disputing the capability of the tried and true Swedish, or the wonderful little .260. But that's simply another cartridge to have. On deer sized game, will it perform any better than a .250 savage?

Come on guys, I have tried to stay out of this thread since it began. I bought my first Savage .250-3000 thirty years ago, a 99EG, and it was surprisingly accurate, both with "normal" 87 and 100 grain handloads, as well as with my anti-varmint "express" loads with a 60 grain W-W bullet made for the .25-20 and a stiff dose of IMR-3031, pushing that little slug over 3500 fps. The results were eye watering. Now the same results can be had on deer with +P loadings of the .250 when fired in solid bolt guns, such as the Ruger and Remington 700. (Don't do that with a Savage), and best of all those hotter loads still produce minimal recoil in a good bolt gun. The .250 is a lot more gun than a .243, but unfortunately the factories do not see fit to load the ammo accordingly, not with all those M99s out there.
LLS

Just like the 257, the 250 Savage suffered for the want of a good spitzer bullet. Great bullets, especially those below 30 calibre, didn't come along until after WWII. By that time a whole new crop of cartridges and optics were here, and the oldies were largely forgotten.
Today, I think we're seeing something similar in that the marketing depts. are pushing out the wonder mags so fast that other cartridges fail to catch on, witness the 260.

For now. But I'm sure soon folks will want new cartridges to take on the old ones. Take the 6.8 SPC. I think that soon, you will have new light recoiling rounds that will take the forefront simply because most guys have had enough of getting the Hell knocked out of them by their rifles.

Sierra2, I was never able to get the 60 grain Hornady to hold together when they were shot at maximum speed, besides their poor BC made them slow down really quickly. The 75 grain Sierra BTHP and Hornady VMax bullets have been the best performing varmint bullets that I've used in the 250-3000, 25 Souper, 257, 257AI, and 25-284. I haven't loaded any in the 25 WSSM, but I expect them to work well in that cartridge too.

pharoh2, I think that the 6.8 SPC is going to start fast and fall on its face. It just doesn't go fast enough to capture a large niche. I'm sure that it will be a nice cartridge, but nothing special or magical! I have a Remington 600 Mohawk action that will become a 6.8 SPC 1 of these days.

Jeff

I've always said it this way:

"The 250-3000 is to deer hunting what the 223 is to varminting."

It's the most enjoyable, easy to shoot centerfire that's fully capable for deer-sized critters to be found... it's also one of only a tiny handful of cartridges that is 100% pure pleasure to shoot.

quote:

Originally posted by 260remguy:
Sierra2, I was never able to get the 60 grain Hornady to hold together when they were shot at maximum speed, besides their poor BC made them slow down really quickly. The 75 grain Sierra BTHP and Hornady VMax bullets have been the best performing varmint bullets that I've used in the 250-3000, 25 Souper, 257, 257AI, and 25-284. I haven't loaded any in the 25 WSSM, but I expect them to work well in that cartridge too.

pharoh2, I think that the 6.8 SPC is going to start fast and fall on its face. It just doesn't go fast enough to capture a large niche. I'm sure that it will be a nice cartridge, but nothing special or magical! I have a Remington 600 Mohawk action that will become a 6.8 SPC 1 of these days.

Jeff

Hi .260RemGuy, I never tried the Hornaday bullets, but went with a supply of old Winchester 60 grain hollow points, made for the old .25-20 WCF. (I bought out the entire stock of a distributor in upstate NY many many years ago.) I like your nick, cause I love the .260
LLS

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:
If I was building a .250 Savage It'd be a short action M-70, Douglas featherweight barrel 20" long, 1-10 twist, and it'd shoot the 90 grain sierra hollow point. This bullet is a fine deer round and for varmints I'd try the Hornady 75 Gr V-Max

This is exactly how my .250 is set up. It shoots 75 grain Hornady's VERY well and for deer I use the 117 grain Sierra spitzers(10" twist stabilizes them just fine). I like the extra penetration they offer over the 100 grain Hornady's I've used in the past. My load is 35 grains of IMR 4320 with a Winchester large rifle primer. It gives me 2625 fps from the 20 inch barrel and shoots flat enough for any shot that I'm willing to attempt with a .250 Sav. the 75 grain load is 37 grains of H4895 with the same primer. It gives 3200 fps and absolutely SLAMS coyotes and foxes...if you don't care about the pelt.

quote:

Originally posted by hvy barrel:
Thanks for the input guys, I think that I am going to eventually build a mountain rifle in the caliber. How would the recoil be in a 6 or 7 pound rifle. I am thinking about this eventually being my nephews first deer rifle.

My gun is built light on a short winchester actoin with a Douglas fwt. barrel and Lone Wolf carbon fiber stock. With a 4X sightron compact in lightweight Talley rings it comes in at 6 lbs. Recoil is mild enough that even my 9 year old shoots it well.