Just wonder if any of you 6.5 users could give me an idea of how the 100gr Nosler ballistic tip has performed for you on deer/antelope sized game???
Thanks

First hand experience. Don't use it on deer. The velocity capabilities are too high and yields HUGE amounts of blood shot meat. The 120 NBT or the 129 Hornady SST are much better deer killers. If you just want a 100 grainer use the Nosler Partition.

I opted for the 125-grain Nosler Partition myself, and only load it to 2700 fps, because the ranges at which I take my deer are typically under 60 yards. My load has proved reliably deadly with full penetration and without excessive bloodshot meat.

I have shot some whitetails with the 95 grain Hornady VMax from a couple different 260s and it worked fine on lung shots through the rib cage. If you want a bullet to stay in the deer, I'd go with a BT, but I think that the 120 grain BT may be a better choice in a medium case capacity 6,5mm bore. You can't shoot it as fast as the 100 grain BT, all things being equal, but it has better BC and SD performance numbers. If you are going to take shots that require some degree of penetration, more than 12", I'd suggest a 125 grain Partition or the 129 grian Hornady SpirePoint. Unless you are shooting something that requires more than 12" of penetration and the ability to break major bones, I think that the 129 grain Hornady SpirePoint and SST offer a nice balance of combined performance potential in terms of velocity, accuracy, and penetration. Also, since they aren't "premium" bullets, they are a little less expensive to shoot.

Jeff

I use them on whitetail sized deer and find them very good at 3,000fps. On a big buck they will generaly be found under the skin on the opposite side.

I use them because they are accurate, soft to shoot (I am very recoil conscious) and they work well for me who takes considered shots at stationary near broadside deer. A dog makes up for the occasionaly failure to exit but it generaly doesn't have to use it's nose just it's eyes!

I would say the weight limit would be about 150lbs max field dressed.

My daughter has killed 3 good bucks, 2 18" 8pointers and an 18" 12 pointer and has yet to see a deer take a step after pulling the trigger using 100 grain Nosler BT's ahead of 43.0 grains of VARGET!! 271 yards, 197 yards, and the 12 pointer at 27 yards after I call him in to her!! First one at 271 was high on the shoulder shot, bullet exited. 197 yards was just in the neck in front of the shoulder bullet didn't exit and the 27 yard shot was squarely in the neck...no exit.....just all DRT....dead right there! So I'd have to say the 100 worked pretty well so far!! GHD

I picked up a bunch of these at Walmart when they were selling them out for $2.50 a box. My only experience with this bullet was out of a 6.5x55 on a blacktail deer. Hit behind the shoulder while bounding at no more than 50 yards the bullet ended up on the inside portion of the offside shoulder. Meat damage was minimal. The bullet was pretty much intact with lots of mushrooming. I've yet to have the devistating meat damage from ballistic tips that everybody talks about. I've used them in 30-06, 25-06, 257 Roberts, 7x57, and 6.5x55. I don't have any desire to use them in the magnum cartridges.

The 243 does it why not the 260Rem?

Wish my Wal-Mart carried Nosler bullets...

I have not used the 100 grain BTs but the 120s have worked great. I use them exclusively in both my 260 and 6.5x55 SE at around 3000fps. I have used them with great success on deer, antelope, and coyotes - from 40 to 400 yards. I also beieve that the 100 grainers at 3300+ fps is too fast for anything larger than varmints, however I have no first hand experience with them. Lou

Thanks for all your input gents its much appreciated.Im just in the process of getting a 260rem and have never used this cal before. What Iam looking for is a projectile that will work specifically on light bodied chamois,(antelope size I guess) meat damage is not to much of an issue.Pretty much want a bullet that will stay inside and preferably not exit. I thought 100gr b/tip would be quite suitable,so Im interested in your experiences and opinions of this bullet or any other 100grainers for that matter. I intend loading some 120gr b/tips or sierras for serious deer hunting.......

Biv;

I have used about any readily available 100 grain bullet ( here in the USA) out of a 260 Rem....

The 100 grain Ballistic tip will cause a lot of blood shot meat, and has done so for me with deer taken at 300 yds....Throttle your MV down to below 2700 fps, and you will have a dead deer without the blood shot meat...

The 100 grain partition is a good recommendation as an alternative....

Two other very good 100 grain bullets that I am sure you have available in NZ would be the 100 grain HP from Sierra and the 100 grain SP from Hornady...

Most others who recommend larger bullets evidently don't get the reason for using 100 grain bullets in the 260 Rem.... less recoil and flatter shooting....

My loads are 3350 fps in a 22 inch barreled Ruger ( 43.5 grains of IMR 4064)... even with the scope on 4 power, I have had enough lack of recoil to watch the deer hit and drop in the scope sighting, never loosing site picture due to recoil... this has been experienced from 100 yds to 300 yds....

All of my 100 grain 260 kills have been instant...My usual bullet of preference is the 100 grain Hornady in this application...if you want down and can live with blood shot meat, then by all means, use the ballistic tip at 3300 fps or better... under 2700 fps down to 1500 fps the ballistic tip will perform very very well... it would be my choice over the Hornady for the lower velocity loads....not that the hornady would be bad, it is just the BTip is better...the Sierra HP also does a darn good job.. it is just the other two do a little better job within there parameters.... but I wouldn't loose my cookies, if I had to go hunt with the 100 grain Sierra....

good luck, I am sure you will learn to love the 260 like 'those of us in the know' do.....

cheers
seafire

I never think of "Sierra" and "serious deer hunting" together, as I can't think of a single Sierra bullet in a single bore diameter that I would consider a "best in class" deer hunting bullet. I used to use a lot of Sierra varmint bullets, but have come to prefer the Hornady VMax series across the board.

If I was planning to use 100 grain bullets to hunt deer, I think that I'd pick a .243" bore rifle, since the BC and SD performance specs for 100 grain .243" bullets are superior to those of the 100 grain bullets offered in the .264" bore. And, given equal case capacity for the 243 and 260 cartridges, I can't see how you can drive 100 grain bullets faster in 1 or the other when reloaded to equal pressures.

Jeff

A quick peek at the IMR site shows a recommended maximum load for the 260/100grain/ IMR4046 combination of 39.5 grains of IMR 4064 giving 3095 fps with a 100 grain bullet at 57K psi from a 24" barrel. Your load of 43.5 grains of IMR 4064 giving 3350 fps at ???K psi from a 22" barrel must be a special combination of a really fast barrel, a great lot of powder, and it must be loaded pretty hot.

Heck, IMR couldn't get 3350 fps with a 100 grain bullet and 42 grains of IMR 4046 operating at 62.4K psi from a 24" 25 WSSM, so you've got to wonder what sort of pressures you're getting.

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by 260remguy:
A quick peek at the IMR site shows a recommended maximum load for the 260/100grain/ IMR4046 combination of 39.5 grains of IMR 4064 giving 3095 fps with a 100 grain bullet at 57K psi from a 24" barrel. Your load of 43.5 grains of IMR 4064 giving 3350 fps at ???K psi from a 22" barrel must be a special combination of a really fast barrel, a great lot of powder, and it must be loaded pretty hot.

Heck, IMR couldn't get 3350 fps with a 100 grain bullet and 42 grains of IMR 4046 operating at 62.4K psi from a 24" 25 WSSM, so you've got to wonder what sort of pressures you're getting.

Jeff

Nosler #5 shows a max of 43.0gr of IMR4064 @3290fps with the 100gr bullet

they also show 48.0gr of W760 giving 3330fps
and 49.0gr of H414 giving 3365fps.

I'd say if you want the speed use the partition bullet and burn up any ammo with the ballistic tip to "keep current" with the rifle by using it for practice and generating once fired brass.

with the 100gr partition the 260Rem gives up nothing to the 25-06 loaded with the slightly
(0.007") skinnier .257 100gr partition...
infact it's 12fps faster than fastest 100gr load in the Nosler #5 manual for the 25-06
both with 24" barrels...

for whitetails (and probably antilope) the 100gr bullets are all you'd ever need, but if you want a bit more confidence in your bullet there's always the 125gr partition...
and again there's no material difference from the performance of the 25-06Rem with 115gr or 120gr bullets...

AllanD

quote:

Originally posted by 30378:
First hand experience. Don't use it on deer. The velocity capabilities are too high and yields HUGE amounts of blood shot meat. The 120 NBT or the 129 Hornady SST are much better deer killers. If you just want a 100 grainer use the Nosler Partition.

My experience, while with a .243Win, yielded the same results as posted by 30378. And here I'm talking of more than 6 deer-like game.

Since then, I switched to the Barnes TSX 85gr with excellent results.

IMHO, the Ballistic Tip is not designed to hold under the stress of high velocity. If it toucehs bone, well, better hire a good tracking dog...

Again, keep away of this bullet if after big game. Go Partition or Barnes or any other tough bullet, IF you you plan to launch them at speeds of more than 3000 fps

How is it possible for a maximum loaded 260 to produce a higher velocity than the larger case capacity of a maximum loaded 25-06 when both use the same weight bullets, are loaded to the same pressure, and use the same barrel length?

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by 260remguy:
How is it possible for a maximum loaded 260 to produce a higher velocity than the larger case capacity of a maximum loaded 25-06 when both use the same weight bullets, are loaded to the same pressure, and use the same barrel length?

Jeff

I guess it has to do with Cartridge efficiency..

IN checking out specs when I built a 6mm Remington on a long action, I found out that the 6mm Rem gave up nothing to the 240 Weatherby, except it burned less powder and had a longer barrel life...

260 RemGuy... If you question the ability of the 260 over the 25/06, maybe you need to consider changing your handle to the 25/06remguy instead....

Not sure if it applies, but you also need to quit reading reloading manuals and test some of this stuff out yourself....

I came up with my 260 loads before Nosler's Manual came out... but I could see after it did, that I was on the right track....

Same thing happened to me on this forum, when I posted the load of 50 grains of H 380, with a 55 grain Ballistic Tip in a 243... everyone was telling me I was way over pressure and that I was going to be the cause of someone getting injured... so after getting flamed all over the place, Nosler comes out with their manual, listing a max load of 53 grains of H 380, and a 55 grain Ballistic Tip....then everyone shut up, but NOT ONE person apologized for flaming me tho....

But I stand beside my recommendations and experiences.... as I got it the same place Nosler got theirs... working up loads and testing them out....Not relaying articles and info in contradictory load manuals.. there are references, not gospel...

seafire

Whatever work for you, works for you!

Good luck, good shooting, be safe out there!

Jeff

In my Ruger 77 compact,I had best performance W/120G.Same in my 6.5 Rem. Mag.In 6.5-06 the Sierra 142G. + in my 1903 Mannlicher the Hornady 160 G. R.N.Working up loads is half the fun.

quote:

Originally posted by 260remguy:
How is it possible for a maximum loaded 260 to produce a higher velocity than the larger case capacity of a maximum loaded 25-06 when both use the same weight bullets, are loaded to the same pressure, and use the same barrel length?

Jeff

It's actually quite simple,
First even a small increase in bore diameter will result in a velocity increase because it isn't bore "diameter" but bore AREA that is important.

X pressure working across a greater area
(area increases with the SQUARE of the diameter
increase).

then when you consider the SD difference between a .257dia 100gr bullet and a .264"
dia 100gr bullet....

small differences add up but in this case the total difference is 12-20fps...

Not bad considering that SAAMI max pressure
for the 25-06 is actually slightly higher.
In PSI the 25-06 goes 63,000psi
the 260Rem 60,000psi.

In this case the 5% difference in bore area essentially cancels out the 5% difference in maximum pressure....

But also remember that propellents are anything but "linear" and sometimes you get a "happy combo" of volume resistance and propellant progressive burn rate....

thus the reason why in the same load manual, the Nosler 5th edition 165gr bullets can actually be driven slightly faster in the 30-06 within allowable pressure than 150's can.

sometimes you just get a "happy combination"...

Not that the difference in either case ammounts to much...

AllanD

OK, but there is only 0.007" difference in bore diameter between a .257" bullet and a .264" bullet. Also, the 100 grain SD numbers are also very close, at least for the Nosler BT; .216 for a .257" BT verses .205 for a .264" BT.

As I understand them, SAAMI specs are generally set to the lowest common denominator, the weakest weapon a particular cartridge is likely to be fired it. Since the 25-06 had a long history at a wildcat before Remington made it a commercial round, its SAAMI pressure specs may be lower than the 260. I still don't see how the 260 can drive a bullet of the same weight faster than a cartridge with 20% more case capacity if both cartridges are loaded to the same level of pressure and use the same barrel length. A cartridge with 20% more case capacity should produce a 5% velocity advantage, all other factors being equal. Of course, there could be a 5% difference just because of a slow or fast barrel, but additional case capacity should provide a velocity advantage unless the smaller capacity case is loaded to high pressures.

Jeff

quote:

Originally posted by 260remguy:
OK, but there is only 0.007" difference in bore diameter between a .257" bullet and a .264" bullet. Also, the 100 grain SD numbers are also very close, at least for the Nosler BT; .216 for a .257" BT verses .205 for a .264" BT.

As I understand them, SAAMI specs are generally set to the lowest common denominator, the weakest weapon a particular cartridge is likely to be fired it. Since the 25-06 had a long history at a wildcat before Remington made it a commercial round, its SAAMI pressure specs may be lower than the 260. I still don't see how the 260 can drive a bullet of the same weight faster than a cartridge with 20% more case capacity if both cartridges are loaded to the same level of pressure and use the same barrel length. A cartridge with 20% more case capacity should produce a 5% velocity advantage, all other factors being equal. Of course, there could be a 5% difference just because of a slow or fast barrel, but additional case capacity should provide a velocity advantage unless the smaller capacity case is loaded to high pressures.

Jeff

5% difference in maximum pressure
5% difference in bore area and a 0.39% difference in velocity.

to be honest spitting on the bullet before chambering might actually make a bigger difference...

the thing is that NONE of the common propellants are particularly efficient in the 25-06 case....

How about comparing the 25-06 to the 6.5-06?

when loaded to the same pressure with IMR4350
(my pick as probably the best propellant for the 25-06) the 6.5-06 will go to 55.5gr
with a 100gr bullet @ 3367, while the 25-06 maxes out at only 51.0 grains a whopping 15fps slower (3352)

Though you can get 3425fps from the 6.5-06 using H4831

I'm just using published Nosler data for this comparison because otherwise the issue only gets more confused/cloudy.
But other load data from other published sources don't indicate anything different
I don't personally own a 260Rem, but I can say I've seent he same effect from other similar cartridges... Look at the 7mm-08 VS the 280Rem
(there though the 7-08 has a 2000CUP pressure advantage) Of course when handloading for a bolt action you don't need to restrict yourself to loading the 280Rem to levels that can be tolerated by the semi-auto and pump rifles that the 280Rem was originally developed for.

Also remember that the actual trained ballisticians (as opposed to all of us self trained amateurs) regard the 25-06 as "overcapacity" for best "efficiency"
Basically saying it's past the peak for
gaining more velocity from additional ammounts of propellant.

The 260Rem is an efficient cartridge.
the 6.5-06 can't help but be a bit more efficient than the smaller bore 25-06...

Who knows mabey the 260's sharper shoulder makes up the difference?

The fact is as I originally stated the 260Rem and the 25-06 are essentially "ballistic twins"
I doubt the differences in BC and velocity
ammount to much with any game that both are proper to be used on or that you'll be able to detect any trajectory difference outside of a climate controlled indoor 400yd range...

Many of the larger differences some people argue over are really irelevant when you look at them without emotion, this is one where even the most emotional can't find purchase to nitpick with any hope of convincing anyone else...

If given a choice between a shiny new remington in either 25-06 or 260Rem for me it'd be a real hard choice, mainly because I've owned 25-06's in the past and still have my dies a supply of bullets and half a dozen boxes of virgin brass

But the 25-06 cannot toss 140gr bullets
though it can launch 115's faster than the 260 can launch 125's, but I doubt any deer on earth would notice the difference.

I only managed to shot four deer with my two 25-06's, that mainly because it was primarily used for woodchuck control, but all died within a few feet of where they were shot, the one that mad it the furthest was a doe who I shot in mid-air in the act of jumping over a fence and she
"Stuck" the landing on her nose

I doubt the results would have been any different with a 260Rem...
But if I wanted to shoot woodchucks there isn't as good a selection of .264 varmint bullets as there are .257 dia lightweights (like the 75gr hornady)

you should be happy about the 260Rem being as capable as it is considering your username

AllanD


AllanD

Actually, the 260 is only my 3rd favorite .264" bore cartridge, as I think that the 256 Newton is the best long action solution and the 6.5-284 is the best performing short action solution.

I've been pushing the 260 since it 1st came out, but I feel that it is a task rather like that of Sisyphus (if you know what I mean!). I got my 1st 260, a Rem 7SS on 10/14/97, and have owned at least 30 firearms in 260 since then. BTW, that 1st Rem 7 is still a 260, but it now features a 22" 700 MR stainless barrel and a 7 laminated stock.

It seems to me that Remington mishandled the marketing of the 260, in that it was never offered in the flagship 700 BDL and only as a limited run in the 700 ADL synthetic. The initial 260 offering in the 700 BDL SS DM never sold well, but that rifle style itself has never sold particularly well. Why Remington went to the DM in the blued 700 MR is beyond me, but I am glad that they still offer it in the 700 LSS MR, as I think that rifle is a nearly perfect vehicle for the 260. I think that if Remington had put a volume of 700 ADL synthetics chambered in 260 into Wal-Mart, the 260 would have a greater following than it does, if for no other reason than just the shear volume of rifles that Wal-Mart would have sold. Also, some of the 1st lots of Remington 140 grain ammo was loaded on the light side, so the actual performance didn't match the published performance numbers.

Of the 14 260s that I currently have, only 6 of them are in their original factory configurations and 4 of the 6 are NIB. Of the remaining 8; 6 have had barrel changes, 5 have had stock changes, and the Savage 99F has been rebored from .243" to .264".

After firing in the neighborhood of 5,000 rounds of 260 ammo, I feel that I have enough experience to offer an informed opinion about what has worked well for me. My bullets of choice are the 95 grain VMax for varmints, the 120 grain BT, 125 grain Partition, or 129 grain Hornady SpirePoint or SST for medium game, and the 140 grain Partition for anything that might require a little extra penetration. I wouldn't have any concern about shooting an elk with a 260 if it was the only rifle that I had, but I have other rifles chambered for cartridges that I consider more suited to that job. The 260 is a nice medium game cartridge, but it has a lot of things stacked against it to ever become popular and widely used. When I want greater performance in a short action 6.5 rifle, I switch from a 260 to a 6.5-284.

Jeff

Gidday Biviuac,

Give me a ring on 3392493 and we can compare notes. I'm sorting out a 260 at the mo too and when I get the time will be working up loads for 100gr and have been thinking along the lines of a 100gr tnt for varminting,goats etc and maybe a partition for reds.

The other option is to call in and see me at Farmers in Riccarton monday to thursday. Just ask for Hamish.

Happy Hunting

Hamish

If given a choice between a shiny new remington in either 25-06 or 260Rem for me it'd be a real hard choice, mainly because I've owned 25-06's in the past and still have my dies a supply of bullets and half a dozen boxes of virgin brass

But the 25-06 cannot toss 140gr bullets
though it can launch 115's faster than the 260 can launch 125's, but I doubt any deer on earth would notice the difference.

Allan, if you had no virgin brass or dies, would you chose 260 rem or a 25-06?

I'm planing to re-barel my 243 tikka to 260. 24" walther 1-8.5 twist and devcon bedded into a McMillin sako varmint stock, action and luggs trued, less than 1/2 m.o.a ( I hope!!!)

quote:

Originally posted by James Johnston:Allan, if you had no virgin brass or dies, would you chose 260 rem or a 25-06?

I'm planing to re-barel my 243 tikka to 260. 24" walther 1-8.5 twist and devcon bedded into a McMillin sako varmint stock, action and luggs trued, less than 1/2 m.o.a ( I hope!!!)

If buying a new rifle?
It'd still be a hard choice.

If rebarreling an exsisting rifle?
that'd depend greatly on action length.

the 260 is a short action caliber.
the 25-06 is a long action caliber, so the selection would be obvious depending on the rifle you were looking at rebarreling.

Frankly, I'd love to have a Rem700 Mountain LSS
in 260Rem...

And I'd also like to have a heavy barreled Remington 700 in 25-06...

So I say again, it's a hard choice

AllanD

....but if you had to choose???


What would you choose???

Allen, I've been shooting a .260ai for awhile now & there are several good bullets for chucks & such. Sierra makes the 85gr & 100grHP & Speer a 90grHP, Horandy the exc. 95grVmax. I haven't killed anything w/ them yet but accuracy is amazingly good out of my 1-8 twist bbl.

260RemGuy

You say the 6.5*284 is a good option for Short Action where you want a bit more than the 260 Rem.

Everything I've read about the 6.5*284 says it isnt really suited to a short action. If you seat 140g bullets at 2.8", you loose 3-4g of capacity with the bullet projecting into the case

Have you not found this a limitation?

Whats the extra velocity you are getting in 120 and 140g bullets between 260 Rem and 6.5*284?

thanks

Grant

The 284 case is 55mm long, so it is a tighter fit than the 51mm 308 case. However, you get 10+/- more grains of powder capacity potential and even if you have to load the 140 grain bullets a bit below the bottom of the neck, you are still ahead. The only reason that I would use a 140 grain Partition is if I was going after elk. For any game up to 300 lbs., I think that the 125 grain Partition or 129 grain SpirePoint could be counted on to do the job if the shooter can send it into the heart/lungs.

It is easy to get 150-200 additiona fps with the 120 grain BT and 125+/- with the 140 grain Partition. I wouldn't bother building a 6.5-284 with a barrel less than 22" and think that 24" is probably a better choice. That said, my fastest 6.5-284 is a long action Win 70 Fwt that was rechambered from 6.5x55. It has a 22" barrel and is throated to accept 160 grain bullets, so the 140 grains have to jump to hit the rifling. My other 6.5-284s have 24" barrels and are short actions.

I'm sure that the 6.5-284 can be pushed harder, but I'm a pretty conservative reloader and of the 3 criteria I look for when I reload, maximizing accuracy and balance come ahead of velocity.

For actual field use, the 260 will do whatever you need a 6.5mm bore to do and it will do it without any fuss or bother. Unless you are shooting a ranges over 300 yards, I doubt that the potential performance increase offered by the 6.5-284 makes any meaningful difference.

Jeff

Thanks for the feedback. I'l be putting a suppressor on it so want the barrel no longer than 22" so may be better off with a 260 rem for starters.

Cheers

grant

Grant,

I looked seriously at the 6.5 x 284... I had the luxury of being able to borrow one from someone, to compare to my 260 Remington Handloaded... on a long action at the time...

I ended up with a 260 Remington take off barrel from a VLS for a cheap price... so I screwed it onto a Model 700 that had a 30/06 barrel on it from the factory...

What I found was minimal increases in velocity, but a large percentage increase percentage of powder...there was no difference in accuracy...
and this was against a 20 lb benchrest 6.5 x 284...

So I built me a 6.5 x 57 instead and it was tested against the 6.5 x 284 ( which is built on a long action model 700 also).... and also had the opportunity to test it against another person I know who shoots a 6.5/06 AI...

The 6.5 x57 gave me all the velocity and accuracy of the other two rounds...

Brass availability figured into my equation also...I didn't see any significant gains in going with the 6.5 x 284 and also did not see any reasonable gains in the 6.5/06AI either over the 6.5 x 57 case on a long action....

The 6.5 x 57 got built on a Winchester Model 70 action...It is long throated, to seat bullets to magazine length...my 142 grain Matchking loads are 80 mm long.. H 414 is my preferred powder, or Reloader 15.. which I don't know if either are available in KiwiLand...

Good luck on the project tho!

cheers
seafire