The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Small Calibers 6.5X55 or 25-06 Factory Ammo?Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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Trying to decide on a Tikka T3 Lite in either 6.5X55 or 25-06. Will be using it for Pronghorn/Coyote. I was wondering what the quality of the factory ammo is and availability of both as I don't reload. I am thinking there is more available for the 25-06 with different loads/bullets which makes it more attractive to me but I may be wrong. Please help.. Thanks | ||
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I used the 6.5x55 for many years for deer and it's great. However all my rounds were the older factory or equivalent [140 @ 2750].The newer reduced factory loads don't interest me at all.I consider the 6.5x55 a handloaders cartridges at this point in America...Find yourself a 25-06 ! | |||
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I am a big fan of the 6.5x55, but I also reload my own and I feel this lets me wring all the range of use out of this cartridge. Even though I am a big fan of the 6.5 for the uses you mentioned I would go with the 25/06. Comparing strictly factory loads you will have a flatter shooting rifle with greater long range potential for Antelope and Coyotes with minimal holdover by using the 25/06. The 6.5 is charactaristically under loaded (factory loads) because of the wide range of old Military rifles in suspect condition I assume. I've not seen 100 and 120 grain factory loads in abundance for the 6.5 either and those would be favored for the use you described. I like both cartridges but for what you are saying in factory loadings I would recommend the 25/06 first. | |||
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Both are great ctgs. You are right in 25-06 having greater availability at least in the U.S. The 25-06 has been my go to Texas rifle for MANY years. I also love the 260 Remington which is the 6.5x55 ballistic twin. Free men should not be subjected to permits, paperwork and taxation in order to carry any firearm. NRA Benefactor | |||
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It's a tough one, as others have said the 25-06 shoots flatter than the 6.5x55. However I doubt the 25 is any more accurate than the 6.5. My T3 6.5x55 will put PMC and Norma factory ammo into the same group. I would not normaly choose a 25-06 before a 6.5x55 but then I'm not in American. Given what you outline then I think I would give the 25-06 the nod. Happy Hunting. I have been wrong before, my wife tells me so. | |||
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The reason commercial 6.5x55 is loaded "soft" isn't for suspect milsurps. All milsurp Swedish Mausers, M96, 96/38 and M38s are a '96 Mauser design. The stronger '98 Mauser action is a high pressure design but the '96 doesn't have the safety features the '98 has- third locking lug and better venting of gasses in case of a rupture. The basic receiver is as strong, but it's just an earlier design. The commercial ammo producers have to load to the lowest possible action. Many modern 6.5x55 rifles can get much better performance when handloaded, though the old 6.5x55 is a great performer itself. For using commercial ammo the 25-06 is a better choice. If you are handloading either would work. Jim NRA Life Member | |||
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You are forgetting that the Krag rifle was manufactured in 6.5x55, and it is definately not as strong as a Mauser. | |||
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Mauser 98 Vs 96? Don't dis the Swede mausers. there is no material difference in gas control. The Swede mausers pioneered a lot of the improvements that made the 98 what it is. The "third lug" people talk about it all the time, but it's essentially irrelevant, like teats on a boar hog, because it only does anything if the primarily lugs fail... I;ve seen very few 98's where that lug actually bears against the receiver. Ditto for Springfields with third lugs, I've seen several where there was a 0.040" (or greater) gap. The 6,5x55 is mostly downloaded to allow for the few, rare Norwegian Krag's out there.... All that being said for deer sized anomals there's no real difference between the 6.5x55, the 260Rem and the 25-06. the difference is in the performance with LIGHTER bullets and to a greater degree with the availability of lighter bullets. the swedes are typically long throated to accomodate the possibility that someone might stick a 160gr RN factory nose load in the rifle, and that long throat isn't particularly friendly toward lighter/shorter bullets in most rifles. so is the 25-06 more accurate? with lighter bullets likely? yes. if you plan on shooting coyotes with this rifle I really have only one point to make, there is a 75gr V-Max made for the 257bore, there isn't for the .264bore. Frankly if I didn't already have an M38 Swede my eyes would glaze over when seeing a modern commercial sporting rifle in that caliber, if thinking about those two calibers you should also consider the 260Rem, the 260rem is generally better with light bullets than the 6.5x55 is. though the lightest bullets made are 87gr That all applies to handloads, I'm not sure there are any factory "varmint" loads commercially available for either the 6.5x55 or the 260, so if you want factory loads for coyotes the 25-06 is the way to go, most ammo manufacturers catalog more varmint loads for the 25-06 than they do loads (total) for the 250rem and the 6.5x55 COMBINED. So if you are serious about deer/antelope AND Coyote there is only really one choice... AllanD If I provoke you into thinking then I've done my good deed for the day! Those who manage to provoke themselves into other activities have only themselves to blame. *We Band of 45-70er's* 35 year Life Member of the NRA NRA Life Member since 1984 | |||
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Allan, I was not trying to dis the Swede. I love mine. I related what I have read over the years about the strength of the action. I believe the throats are long since the original load was a 160gr bullet. The 139gr bullet most commonly found now in Swede milsurp ammo was originally developed for their snipers, and eventually became general issue. I love my M38 and I agree it will do a great job on most anything I will hunt. The SD and BC of the 6.5mm bullets make it one of the most inherantly accurate calibers. Jim NRA Life Member | |||
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Allan D makes a good point about bullet availability. Most .264 bullets start around 120 grains and go up from there with several manufacturers making a 160 grain bullet while .257 bullets usually stop around 120 grains. For the intended game of coyotes and pronghorn a large heavy high sectional density bullet probably isn't justified. LWD | |||
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My Ruger 77 in .25-06 shoots .75" and under with W-W 120 gr Positive Expanding Point factory loads, and with Hornady 120 gr HP handloads, just a shade better. Has done this since I paid $137.50 for it NEW. So, that gives you some idea of how old it might be. An old pilot, not a bold pilot, aka "the pig murdering fool" | |||
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Well just to re-state my position and clarify I am a big fan of the 6.5's and own 2 Swede's, accuracy was not even a factor in my answer I based my answer strictly on the fact that factory loads in a 25/06 would better serve his intended purpose than factory loads in a 6.5 Swede. As for accuracy the 6.5's are tough to beat.Group measures under .3" center to center.  | |||
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I own one of each, a M70 XTR Featherweight 6.5x55 and a B78 High Wall 25-06. Handload for both. As mentioned above, a 25-06 has much better selection and availability for factory ammo. Even handloading, the 6.5 suffers as a dedicated varminter. My 6.5 is long throated. Tried loading some 100 gr Partitions for a great plains deer/antelope bullet. (Had visions of a 257 Roberts with the flexibilty to go up to Moose/Elk bullets dancing in my head.) At an OAL of 2.94, I had only .18 of bullet seated in the case and was still looking at .26 of freebore before I touch lands with a 140 Partition. (The 100 gr fell out of the case before the lands.) Unless going with a custom chamber, a 6.5 is not a short bullet cartridge. I love it as a big game rifle, getting ~ 2900 with 130 TSX's and would chase most any edible critter in North America with that load. But don't think it is an ideal varminter. I have some 75 VMax's laying around the bench for the 25. Have been too busy working up 100 gr TSX loads for antelope hunting to mess with the varmint bullets (avoiding non-barnes copper in the barrel during load development). That being said, my 25 will seat 100 gr Hornady SP well enough to get to the lands so I am optimistic about getting close enough to make the 75's work. And if they don't the 100's are cheap enough for mass use on a p-dog town. Just a stream of consciousness thing here ... but re: factory varmint loadings. Considering the amount of ammo shot up on a serious vermin hunt, doesn't handloading start paying for itself in a hurry? | |||
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Don't worry too much about the long throats on the Swedes. They do have more freebore than most are comfortable with but they are still very, very accurate. Jim NRA Life Member | |||
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Thanks for the replys. On to the next query. All of my rifles have composite stocks and I like them all. I was thinking of going to a walnut stock for the 25-06 as most of my hunting will be done out west Wy. MT, etc. Are there any advantages of the wood over the composite or vice versa? I would like a light rifle since I may be humping around a lot but I am curious to see what all of you experts think. Thanks again for all of your very informative posts. | |||
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Snellstrom, Do you have any idea of how fast your bullets are going? How long is your barrel? I tried some 129 Hdys and they did well (.57" with 39.5 IMR 4350 and .77" with 41.5 same powder.) Just wondered what your experiences were with that load. I don't have a chrony, so I am just trying to get a rough idea of my speed and energy from a 22" bbl. Thanks, and sorry for the thread hijack. Regards, Graham | |||
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M70 Classsic I must confess the load pictured above is actually 39 grains of IMR 4064 I mis-labeled and didn't realize it until the photo was snapped. I also shot 39 grains of IMR-4350 and it shot under an inch in my rifle too, both 4350 and 4064 do very well in my rifle even with the cheap 140 grain bullets! Both loads also shot to the same point of impact. I'll have to double check my records but I remember that I kept going up in .5 grain increments for both powders and the groups just kept opening up all the way to 41 grains if I recall, so I backed down to the sedate but accurate load. I have not chrono'ed these loads but I estimate I am getting 2550+ from the 39 grains of IMR-4064 in my 22" barrel. I'm just guessing but I think your speed would be around 2600 for the more accurate load and nearly 2750 for the other accurate but hotter load. My 22" barrel is an original military barrel that has been re-contoured, the bore was a little dark when I got it so I was shocked to get that kin of accuracy out of it! I too apologize for the HIJACK! | |||
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the 160 was the original military load and was comparable to other contemporary military loadings, until shortly after the turn of the century when EVERYONE switched to the more ballistically efficient spitzer style bullets, generally at lighter than the "original" weights. as a singular example. the 30-03 cartridge replaced a painfully slow 220gr loading with a series of lighter bullets ranging from 174gr down to (eventually) 150gr. (though this last lighter loading was to prevent the heavier bullet loads and greater gas port pressure from bending Garand Op-Rods) My point about the "long throat" in the swedes is that all other martial rifles were gradually "redesigned" to make allowances for the later ammunition designs, the swede is nearly unique in maintaining a long throat for ammunition that had been more or less phased out of general use and machining that long throat into newly produced rifles (the M38 and the M42 Ljungman) which were clearly marked for use with the 140gr spitzer ammunition. the changes to the Springfield from the original 03 chambering to the 06 chambering were more extensive than the other changes.
Nosler makes nothing lighter than 100gr for the .264, but they DO make a partition in that weight specifically designed for use in the 260Rem. On the .257 Nosler stops at 85gr. Most other makers go as low as 87gr. Sierra, Speer and Hornady all make 85-87gr bullets for the 264 and 75gr for the .257 (if you ignore the 60gr bullets Hornady makes for the 25-20WCF) Truth be told if it weren't for the 75gr V-Max I wouldn't even be doing load development for a 75gr bullet in my new 25-06. If Sierra made their BlitzKing in a 75gr .257 I'd atleast try it out.... I consider the 75gr V-Max in the 25-06 a <300yd load for "maximum splatter".  If the requirement to shoot varmints is included the 25-06 is the choice If shooting coyotes with the rifle WAS NOT a requirement I'd say to go with the 260, and I already own a 6.5x55, but I don't regard it as a serious north american hunting cartridge if an additional requirement of "Factory ammo" is included in the selection criteria. It isn't that the factory 6.5x55 ammo is "detuned" (it is, but...) it's that it isn't as available as 25-06 ammo is. 6.5x55 simply isn't on the shelf at "Bubba's fin & fur" or Wally World. And if you include both Varmint shooting AND factory ammo only the 25-06 remains of the available choices, because SFAIK there are no factory varmint loadings produced for the 260Rem either. AllanD If I provoke you into thinking then I've done my good deed for the day! Those who manage to provoke themselves into other activities have only themselves to blame. *We Band of 45-70er's* 35 year Life Member of the NRA NRA Life Member since 1984 | |||
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25-06 either way | |||
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You know, I'd like to throw another factor in here, since this rifle is going to be a deer getter. What about minimizing meat damage? I've been using 6.5x54, 6.5x55, and .260 Rem almost exclusively for my meat hunting the past 6 years, and I've noticed a remarkable difference in damage between the "lower" velocity 6.5s and the hits done by .25-06 and .270s. The 6.5mms don't destroy so much meat as do the rounds that step out over 3000 fps, and they still offer dropped in their tracks kills. As a meat hunter, I'd go with the 6.5x55mm. LLS  | |||
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You have a point on ammo availability, although 6.5x55mm is available in both of our local gun shops and Academy. On the other hand, try finding 6.5x57mm anywhere in the USA, but you can find it at Von Schultzie's Fin & Fur" all over Europe. LLS | |||
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The lightest factory ammo available for the 6.5x55 are Norma's 100gr jagdmatch HP which is pretty rare, they also do a 120gr Ballistic Tip loading which is more common. This would make an excellent all round cartridge. RWS make a 120gr loading but it is very hard to get hold of. The 25-06 will surely have much more commonly available ammunition but be quite a lot louder. When you get to 120gr for deer the factory ballistics are very similar to most 6.5x55 120gr loads. Common sense dictates the 25-06 unless you only shoot the occasional yote in which case it'll be just as dead with a 120 or 140 as an 87. | |||
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The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Small Calibers 6.5X55 or 25-06 Factory Ammo?
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