Why is Remington 17 brass such poor quality?

Does an yone form thei own from .222mag or .204 brass by other manufacturers?

If you do is it worth the effort?

I don't know, maybe it is the lack of competition. Or maybe they only make small runs of it and don't set the tooling up correctly?

The last bag I bought was pretty bad. I debated on throwing it all out and buying another bag.

I've not tried forming my own. I guess I assumed the thicker case necks would negate any "benefit" over the factory stuff.

What does Remington say about this??

I've owned a .17 Remington for 25 or more years and at first I shot factory loads mainly for the brass and later on I bought bagged brass and I have never had a bad case, lucky, I guess.
Maybe their quality has slipped lately but I haven't bought any brass for many years.
To answer your question about forming .222 Mag brass to .17, it's not worth the trouble, they have to be shortened a bunch, neck turned, etc.
Trust me it ain't worth it.
If I had some brass that I thought was defective, i'd send it back to Remington and ask for an exchange.
I've used a lot of Remington brass over the years in various calibers and have no regrets.
The worst i've seen recently is Winchester, the flash hole diameters varied by a bunch in 25/06 cases.
It may not be Lapua quality but it ain't near the price either.

Stepchild

quote:

To answer your question about forming .222 Mag brass to .17, it's not worth the trouble, they have to be shortened a bunch, neck turned, etc.
Trust me it ain't worth it.

This is a very believable statement.

I worked with an Engineer that had formerly worked for Remington in the case making department. He told me about the difficulty of making the .17 Remington and warned Hornady about it as well....It had a lot to do with the reason Hornady does not make it.....

What wrong with the Remington brass?

If case necks are splitting I would anneal the neck and shoulder.
Are these are factory loads that are cracking at the neck? If they are I'd break them down reclaim the components, then anneal the cases and reload them again.

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:
What does Remington say about this??

Not a lot I'd guess, what with them being a big corporation. I have to admit that I haven't tackled them over it. I assumed I was to small a fish for them to be bothered with. Perhaps I could email their customer services dept and let you all know what reply comes back.

I purchased a few hundred bagged cases over the last 3 years, and have had to bin about 5%-6% straight out of the bags due to flaws. Dings and dents, oval necks, rippled shoulders, poor primer pockets that sort of thing. I even tried my luck with a 100 chromed plated cases hoping they would be of a better quality. Still ended up binning 5-6% straight out of the bag.

I don't loose anywhere near that amount with other manufacturers brass for the other calibres that I load for. But then I've always had a choice of manufacturers to choose from and have stayed up in the premium end of the market Lapua etc. Although I've never found Remington brass to be particularly cheap when buying for the .17 rem.

quote:

Originally posted by Slowpoke Slim:
I don't know, maybe it is the lack of competition. Or maybe they only make small runs of it and don't set the tooling up correctly?

The last bag I bought was pretty bad. I debated on throwing it all out and buying another bag.

I've not tried forming my own. I guess I assumed the thicker case necks would negate any "benefit" over the factory stuff.

I have been having a dig around the various fora and it would seem that its not an isolated problem and is well documented.

There are loads of good interesting threads going back as far as 2003. If I had a 17-223 I could get away with using good quality .223 brass and not neck turn but I don't so have to look to the .222mag and .204.

The best web site I've found is for info and guys who have been and tried is www.coyotegods.com. But then you would have expected that given their prime subject matter.

It seems there's no easy method regardless of which case you begin with and both need setting the shoulder back slightly as well as neck turning and produce a case with slightly less capacity than a true .17rem case. But it does allow you to adjust the case of OAL and neck length in order to accommodate over long chambers dims on production rifles. So some additional gains over and above the better brass for the numerous forming stages that you have to perform.

I'd have to invest in some more dies and and bushings in order to end up with a finished product so the extra cost of kit and additional time spent going through the forming process might just make the exercise more costly than just binning the Remington brass straight out of the bag.

I guess what I really need to find is a competent reloader who already has the kit but needs a few bucks to come up with the time and the inclination.

I recently bought a bag of 100. The entire bag of 100 has the same defect. It looks like however they are cutting the brass to length is out of adjustment. I don't know if they use a shear or what, but it's pulling the case mouth off to the side. Each piece of brass is the same.







I don't know if it will show up well in the pictures, (I tried).

The only fix is to run them through a FL die, then trim the case mouths square again.

I have no idea if it will affect accuracy or not, I haven't gotten that far. I've pulled the scope and base off that barrel (Contender carbine) to use on something else. I was getting the brass ready and planning on setting the barrel back up when I ran into this "problem".

I've just tossed everything back up on the shelf in disgust for now.

I guess I'm with Gintrap on this one. I seriously doubt Remington could give a crap about 1 guy with 1 bag of brass...

I doubt it's worth my time to try to chase down a "person" who might care.

quote:

I guess I'm with Gintrap on this one. I seriously doubt Remington could give a crap about 1 guy with 1 bag of brass...

I doubt it's worth my time to try to chase down a "person" who might care.

Get after 'em boys. I'll bet they'll be more accomodating than you might think. If nothing else you should do it for sheer principle.

quote:

I purchased a few hundred bagged cases over the last 3 years, and have had to bin about 5%-6% straight out of the bags due to flaws. Dings and dents, oval necks, rippled shoulders, poor primer pockets that sort of thing.

???

Dents, dings, and out-of-round mouths are expected in bulk brass (shipped in something other than individually compartmented containers). As with ANY new, unfired brass, you need to run them through the neck sizer, trim to a specified minimum trim-to length, then chamfer. Any body or shoulder dents will iron out on the first firing without effecting the performance or accuracy of the load.

Exactly what are the defects you've noted in "poor primer pockets"? I've heard this complaint before but have never found a defective primer pocket in any brass I've purchased.

All of that said, it is understandable that with shooters hoarding components and the shortages created thereby, the manufacturers are tempted to relax their quality control in order to place more goods on the market to take advantage of it while it lasts. Some recent brass may exhibit quality problems that brass a few years old may not.

Slim
I've not had that fault sho up in any of the lots that I've purchased so far. So I'll add it to the list of things to look forward too in the saga of my rem17 loading.

If the thing wasn't such a cracking out the box accurate vermin slayer I would seriously consider swapping the barrel over to some other calibre that had better quality brass available. But its just to good, so I'll persevere.

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:

quote:

I purchased a few hundred bagged cases over the last 3 years, and have had to bin about 5%-6% straight out of the bags due to flaws. Dings and dents, oval necks, rippled shoulders, poor primer pockets that sort of thing.

???

Dents, dings, and out-of-round mouths are expected in bulk brass (shipped in something other than individually compartmented containers). As with ANY new, unfired brass, you need to run them through the neck sizer, trim to a specified minimum trim-to length, then chamfer. Any body or shoulder dents will iron out on the first firing without effecting the performance or accuracy of the load.

Exactly what are the defects you've noted in "poor primer pockets"? I've heard this complaint before but have never found a defective primer pocket in any brass I've purchased.

All of that said, it is understandable that with shooters hoarding components and the shortages created thereby, the manufacturers are tempted to relax their quality control in order to place more goods on the market to take advantage of it while it lasts. Some recent brass may exhibit quality problems that brass a few years old may not.

I accept that bulk buying comes with some risks of minor damage. The cost saving should by rights help compensate for that. However the cost of .17rem brass is not bargain basement prices. Well not over here in the UK it aint! Its the closest I get to feeling well and truly screwed without going to a bar first and picking up a willing female. I buy Lapua brass, about as good as it gets, for near enough the same price in other calibres.

I always neck size and trim and chamfer new brass as you suggest. What annoys me is that poorly produced cases direct off the production floor, as per Slim example, is allowed to slip passed their quality control in the first place. I've had out of true primer pockets. I returned those to the retailer and got a different lot as replacement. Along with a box of.25gr Bergers by way of compensation for my travel cost incurred in making a double round trip. I find its always best to try and deal face to face with the retailer when making a complaint or returning faulty merchandise. I appreciate that's easier over here in the UK. Where as you guys in the US often have hundreds if not thousands of miles between retailer and the customer. As a plus your customer service practices are often way ahead of those in the UK. I've had bench rest kit shipped over from different US business and individuals where the cheque and the goods must have crossed each other mid Atlantic.

Slim,
If that was all that I had to bitch about,
I'd either return them to Remington for an exchange or run them though a proper die to size up or down the necks to where they need to be
No more whineing please.

stepchild

Rem. Match in 30-06 and .308 Win. seems to develop loose primer pockets.

stepchild,

Tell you what, I've got about half a bag left here that I haven't messed with yet. Send me your address and I'll send them to you free.

How's that?



EDITED-- Decided NOT to stoop to his level

Slim,
In case you change your mind, send me a PM.
Dennis

Oh, the brass is yours if you want it. I think the bag is still half full, whatever's left in it is yours. Send me your address.

I was referring to your childish remarks about "whining". I had some comments about that, but decided not to leave them up here and lower myself to your level.

We had just been having a discussion about brass quality until you showed up.

Slim



I bet he'll never PM you his address.

quote:

We had just been having a discussion about brass quality until you showed up.

We were indeedy!

I have been doing more internet research and there really is no alternatives other than either biting the bullet, forgive the play on words, I thought it quite humorous, and lashing out for additional dies and bushings in order to use better brass in 204 or 222mag or putting up with Remington's appalling quality control.

A .17-204 looks to be the answer once a .17rem barrel is shot out. Good brass available, easy to form using just 4 bushings and a wee bit of neck turning. They appear to be accurate from the get go, so no need to sacrifice barrel life fire forming and load development. What's more they shove the 30gr bullets along at 40000+

Slim,
PM sent.

Stepchild