Hello all. I read here alot but don't post much.
I'm thinking of rebarreling my old ruger m77 22-250.
What is the best twist ratio for 50 to 60 grain bullets? Would 1 in 10 work and also let me shoot heavier bullets?
Thanks

What's the heaviest you will want to shoot? IMO a 1-12 would be best for up to 60's. A 1-10 will get you into the mid 60's. If you ever want to shoot the VLD's you'll want atleast a 1-8 A fast twist 22-250 shooting VLD's is a very nice setup maybe even consider the improved version for better case life.

For what it's worth Lapua is going to be making 22-250 brass soon and that with a AI shoulder and a fast twist would make a sweet yote, chuck, PD and about any other varmint rifle.

I've been shooting 22 cal rifles for over 40 years and have never shot over 55gr. but would like to have the option to go heavier with all the new bullets available nowdays.
Would a 1 in 8 still be good for the 50 to 60gr.
The reason i ask is i have a 260 in 1 in 8 and it soots the heavy bullets better than the lighter ones and i want to be able to soot the 50 to 60's real well.
Thanks

"""Would a 1 in 8 still be good for the 50 to 60gr"""
The 1:9 was idea for 100gr bullets 1:12 for 70 to 85gr and the standard 1:14 worked for the 45 to 55gr range.
there are exceptions~ my 22-250 1:14 shoots 1/2" groups with 52gr bullets at100yrds.
1 to 1 1/4" groups with 60gr bullets if that accuracy is good enough for your .
the thing I would be concerned about with a 1:8 twist and light bullets is too much spin which affects accuracy and would strip the jacket off thin jacked bullets. sierrs spitzers come to mind.

quote:

Originally posted by hivelosity:
"""Would a 1 in 8 still be good for the 50 to 60gr"""
The 1:9 was idea for 100gr bullets 1:12 for 70 to 85gr and the standard 1:14 worked for the 45 to 55gr range.

Who is making 100 grain .224 bullets?

I shoot a fast twist 22.250, with a one in 7 twist..

what it can do is shoot 75 and 80 bullets at the velocity that a standard 22.250 shoots 60 grain bullets..

a 22.250 AI with a fast twist can shoot 75 and 80 grain bullets as fast as a standard 22.250 can shoot 50 and 52 grain bullets..

The heavier bullets dramatically increase the point blank range, due to the heavier weight and how flat shooting they are.

I have wondered why 22-250 are not standard with the fast twist rates, With the available SMK and Berger bullets in 69 grain and up it seems as though it would add another dimension to the round. On paper it looks to be a great F-Class round especially at 600 yards.

My 22-250 will put 55gr ballistic tips in a group smaller than .5" for 5 shots. It has the factory 1:14 twist barrel. I don't know what it would do with 60gr bullets yet. I would think that that a 1:12 twist barrel would work good with 55gr & possibly 60gr bullets.

hum? wonder where I came up with that?
that was suspose to be an example I think.

I will probably stay with 50 to 60 gr bullets. I have other rifles to shoot the 60gr on up.
Barnes says 1 in 12 or faster is needed to stabilize their 53 gr triple shock.
I shoot mostly Hornady and Berger's now.
I'm thinkin 1 in 10 or 1 in 12.
What are your thoughts on that?

Thanks

Some ten or more years ago, couple of us rebarreled 22-250 w/ 8 twist and used them very well at NRA Long Range Matches, 600-1000 yds. w/ 80gr Sierra's. It was more of an experierment to start with, but turned out a very good set up.
My barrel was Krieger and friend was Douglas and both 29" in length(prone/sling/"irons" rifles) and both held excellent accuacy. Very good combination.

I've always wondered why nearly all factory 22-250 rifles come with the slow 1 in 14" twist. Isn't that like a restrictor plate on a nascar motor.

The 22-250 would be awesome with heavy bullets but you have to do a custom rebarrel to get the fast twist. You can get the 223rem with 1in9" or even 1in7" why not the 22-250. There has to be a reason unless it's just the fact that gun factories follow suit because the other guy is doing it that way (monkey see monkey do).

I would think if there were a fast twist factory option (and maybe there is I don't know about) it would sell like mad.

I received a very good shooting .223 barrel with a 1-12 twist. Since I did not need another .223, I had the barrel rechambered to .22-250 to replace an older 1-14 twist barrel that had lost its edge in accuracy. This new barrel not only shot 50 - 60 gr bullets well, it also shot 40 grainers well. Accuracy with the heavier bullets seemed easier to find with more powders.

quote:

Originally posted by filmit:
I've always wondered why nearly all factory 22-250 rifles come with the slow 1 in 14" twist. Isn't that like a restrictor plate on a nascar motor.

The 22-250 would be awesome with heavy bullets but you have to do a custom rebarrel to get the fast twist. You can get the 223rem with 1in9" or even 1in7" why not the 22-250. There has to be a reason unless it's just the fact that gun factories follow suit because the other guy is doing it that way (monkey see monkey do).

I would think if there were a fast twist factory option (and maybe there is I don't know about) it would sell like mad.

Me too, come on lads, anybody shed some light here??

Savage offers a 22-250 in 1 in 12 and 1 in 9.
I dropped my rifle off today. I'm going with 1 in 10, 26 " stainless fluted.
Thanks for all the input.

I shoot a 10" twist 22.250 with 68 grain match through 75 grain bullets out to 1,000 yards. (F class shooting)

rat, think you made a good choice. I did mine up with a 8 twist, but my intentions were to primarily shoot 75gr. Amax's, 70gr. TSX's and maybe 75gr. Scirrocos. It shoots the Amax and TSX very well. Have yet to try the Scirrocos. It also does well with 50's and 55's.

David

I rebarreled my sako L579 22-250 last autumn with shilen 8"twist barrel. Same time change caliber to 22-250AI and i have to say i havent never make any so good choise with rifle.

I use rifle to forest bird hunting up to roe deer size game. And its working really good now. I use only berger 75gr VLD bullets and scirocco also same 75gr weight. I use same load with VV N160 powder with both bullets and it shoot great. Both bullets hits allmost same point. Different is about 1,5cm in side way by 100 meters and in my hunting its not mean nothing. I target rifle to berger bullets and its hit about 1cm accuracy all time in 100m and i keep that great of normal light hunting rifle with light contour hunting barrel with zeiss qoncuest 3-9x50 scope.

Both bullets working great in my use. Scirocco accuracy is not so god but still goes about 15-17mm accuracy to 100mm and its fine to me.

I havent try maximum load yet and now both bullets goes about 1000m/s. And its not maximum and like i say i dont know what is. For me accuracy is more important and i dont see any reason pushing more velocity but propably i try it next summer. Now here is too cold try anything.

So i REALLY recommed of that 8" twist to 22-250AI rifle. Like i say its best thing what i have did any with any rifle. I really love that gun now.

The reason the 22-250 and 222 and such were barreled at a "slow" --many of us think of it as standard-- twist of 1/14 or 1/12 was that they were designed to shoot 40-55gr bullets. Varmint bullets.
Only when America adopted the .223 and tried to make a battle weapon out of a varmint round did they find that it is a piss poor choice. And so the big brass said, "gee we made a mistake. Let's try something else." Sure, right. Of course they did. First they tried a heavier bullet, which failed miserably. So then they went to a faster twist to accomadate the heavier bullets. And ended up with a weapon that is almost a .243. And don't forget, the launch platform (I hesitate to call it a rifle) for this miserable excuse for a battle round was the most miserable piece of shit ever dumped on the American fighting man. The Commandant Marine Corp issued an order forbidding any officer from making a negative report about it. How many Americans died because of these failures will never be known but they are legion.
And now you know why many of your .222, 222Mags, .223, 22-250 rifles are with a 1/14 twist. They are varmint rifles.
I'll get off my soapbox now.

quote:

And now you know why many of your .222, 222Mags, .223, 22-250 rifles are with a 1/14 twist. They are varmint rifles.

Right.

I would think that if your .22-250 is a 7 or 8 twist, the 55's would disintegrate out of the barrel from being spun too much.

quote:

Originally posted by rcamuglia:

quote:

And now you know why many of your .222, 222Mags, .223, 22-250 rifles are with a 1/14 twist. They are varmint rifles.

Right.

I would think that if your .22-250 is a 7 or 8 twist, the 55's would disintegrate out of the barrel from being spun too much.

having one, most 55 grainers actually do just fine...

however I don't redline velocity...

I can tell you to skip shooting Hornady SPSX's and also Sierra Blitz bullets.. the V Maxes, Ballistic tips and Blitz Kings hold up just fine out of my Pac Nor Barrel.

Are the heavy weight bullets (60 grs & up) still considered varmint hunting bullets, or are they designed just for long range paper targets?

I would like to know if these heavy bullets will safely fragment to dust when they hit the ground?

I hope they don't hold together and ricochet all over the place if you miss a ground hog at 300 meters.

quote:

Originally posted by Mike70560:

quote:

Originally posted by hivelosity:
"""Would a 1 in 8 still be good for the 50 to 60gr"""
The 1:9 was idea for 100gr bullets 1:12 for 70 to 85gr and the standard 1:14 worked for the 45 to 55gr range.

Who is making 100 grain .224 bullets?

There was a company in the mid 90's that offered a .224 bullet at 100 grains. They were located in Oak Ridge TN. At the time the bullets were about $1.00 each. Offered other heavy for caliber bullets at similar prices. I haven't heard of them in years. But the point is YES someone made 100 grain .224 bullets.

muck

100gr .224 projectiles-
Greg Seigmund of Clinch River Outfitters in TN.
Hand made awesome VLD projectiles.

Along w/ MFD-
I also fired a 1:8" twist 22-250 in NRA OTC comps firing Moly'd 80 & 90gr VLD's from 200 thru 1000yds with excellent results.
Heavies will buck the wind better than light projectiles even when pushed 300-400fps slower than its lighter cousins.
I have only 1 chuck to my credit w/ match rifle & open sights at 400yds.
The 80gr SMK had full penetration lengthwise & kept trucking being pushed at 3250fps.
Light SX or Varmint Grenades projectiles pushed to maximum velocities would probably spin the jackets off if spun over 300,000rpm's.

Shot at Oak Ridge for several years prior to health problems and observed some of those "magic" bullets and believe they were tungsten something or other core and ones I viewed were being used by Military team shooters in 308. Looked about like a 155Palma, but was told they were over 200grains in weight!

As for the 80's in 22/250 could get velocity above 3250 but as sometimes the case, velocity is not necessarily equivalent to accuracy. Slowed mine down to just over 3100fps and they were very accurate at about any range you wanted on out to the 1000yd. line.

Scoring for a shooter at Malvern, OH. range one day and he was shooting some sort of wildcat that was "gurandamnteed" to eat the center out of that 600yd X ring. Case about the size of your thumb, bullet looked like a needle and from the first shot, he had a miss. Of course he called for a double check, cost him a buck, and I noticed the next shot a small puff of smoke/gas/etc. somewhere about 1/3 downrange.
Bullet was simply vaporizing in mid air. Have no idea of velocity, but would not venture a guess as to the rpm of that round. Next time I saw him at the matches, he was shooting a Garand and trying to learn the basics. Live and learn they say.

Interesting.
Taking Mr Beemans observations regarding the specific job of the 22-250 as a varmint cartridge, I can see why the manufacturers opt for the slow end of the spectrum but surely they know that bullets are better designed nowadays. I tried for a while to source a tired rifle over here with the express purpose of rebarreling with a 1 in 10 but nothing appeared at the right price so I settled with a CZ550 (1 in 14). I can get MOA with up to 63 grain bullets but would love to try it at long range with something 69 gr flavoured but that twist just strangles an otherwise great calibre.

One other question, may be a bit off topic but at what RPM does your average .224 55grain bullet start to fall apart?

They do have a rifle designed to shoot those heavier varmint bullets. I think it's called a .243. Another varmint round that they have tried to be made into something else.

quote:

Originally posted by muck:

quote:

Originally posted by Mike70560:

quote:

Originally posted by hivelosity:
"""Would a 1 in 8 still be good for the 50 to 60gr"""
The 1:9 was idea for 100gr bullets 1:12 for 70 to 85gr and the standard 1:14 worked for the 45 to 55gr range.

Who is making 100 grain .224 bullets?

There was a company in the mid 90's that offered a .224 bullet at 100 grains. They were located in Oak Ridge TN. At the time the bullets were about $1.00 each. Offered other heavy for caliber bullets at similar prices. I haven't heard of them in years. But the point is YES someone made 100 grain .224 bullets.

muck

I shot at Camp Perry several times in the mid to late 90s and 2001. I remember the rumor of the 100 grain 223 bullet made from depleted uranium available to the top military teams. That is why they were so good, or was it they were the best shooters in country and practiced everyday.

quote:

Originally posted by Dans40XC:
100gr .224 projectiles-
Greg Seigmund of Clinch River Outfitters in TN.
Hand made awesome VLD projectiles.

Along w/ MFD-
I also fired a 1:8" twist 22-250 in NRA OTC comps firing Moly'd 80 & 90gr VLD's from 200 thru 1000yds with excellent results.
Heavies will buck the wind better than light projectiles even when pushed 300-400fps slower than its lighter cousins.
I have only 1 chuck to my credit w/ match rifle & open sights at 400yds.
The 80gr SMK had full penetration lengthwise & kept trucking being pushed at 3250fps.
Light SX or Varmint Grenades projectiles pushed to maximum velocities would probably spin the jackets off if spun over 300,000rpm's.

I am building one of Gary Eliseo's kits in 6BR for XTC. I keep thinking about a 22-250 with a 1-8 for some of the 600 yard prone matches in the area. With 80-90 grain SMK or Bergers it would seem to be almost a perfect combination.

My 22-250 will shoot Sierra's 55 gm HPBT into less than 1/2" groups at 100 yards with a 1-14 inch twist. One group measured 1/4". But, it will not shoot 60 grain bullets that I tested well at all.
Now, if I wanted a 22 Varminter to shoot the excellent 60 grain bullets that are available, I would look very closely at a barrel with a 1-12 twist. I'm not into fast twist barrels, but, YMMV.
FWIW

Don

It appears that at least some of the manufacturers have gotten the word that there is a demand for a faster twist .22-250. Remington now offers their Model 7 Predator in .22-250 with a 9 1/8 inch twist as does Savage utilizing a 9 inch twist.

I have been wanting to play with a faster twist .22-250 for some time, but did not want to go to the expensive of putting a rifle together from scratch. I opted to purchase the Model 7 due to its more svelt configuration. I am not enamoured with a fully camouflaged rifle, but it is was a way to satisfy my desire quickly at minimal cost.

Looking forward to starting load development next week. I plan on loading over the entire gamut of velocities from .22 rimfire magnum levels to loads utilizing the heavier barnes TSX's and the Hornady 75 grain A-max.

Should be interesting.

quote:

Originally posted by C.L. Garey:
It appears that at least some of the manufacturers have gotten the word that there is a demand for a faster twist .22-250. Remington now offers their Model 7 Predator in .22-250 with a 9 1/8 inch twist as does Savage utilizing a 9 inch twist.

I had to see this for myself. I think you got off a line. The only Model 7 Predator with a 9 1/8 twist is the 243 Win model. The 22-250 still shows as 14" twist. From Remington's web site:

Bolt 22" 223 Remington 39" 9" 85952
Bolt 22" 22-250 Remington 39" 14" 85953
Bolt 22" 243 Win 39" 9 1/8" 85954

What kind of barrel life were you guys getting with those fast twist 22-250 match rifles?

First one I had w/ Douglas 30" 1/8 twist put a bit over 2000 rnds through it and shot well, but throat was becoming "stretched" and sold it to a varmint hunter, groundhogs, crows, etc. Plenty good enough for that application. He is still shooting it as of past November and has taken several cyotes. Second one was Krieger barrel, and shot it close to 2000 rnds and had it set back and continued shooting in matches for additional 1200 rnds. Rebarreled at that time, but truth of the matter is either barrel was still shooting fine and delivered less than 1 moa of accuracy.
These rifles were not sporting rifles, but long range prone match rifles which are "worked" on a regular basis and not uncommon to put 100 rnds in a days time at a match and yes, they got very hot. Unless shooting at those prarie dogs can't imagine most hunters shooting out a barrel in a short period of time. Should last a hunter for a long time.

Thanks Beeman for telling the truth about Kennedy's wiz kids and their m16 POS!!!!!

quote:

Originally posted by b78-22250:
Thanks Beeman for telling the truth about Kennedy's wiz kids and their m16 POS!!!!!

Funny Post! Obviously there are some with no M16 experience or of shooting anything with a 5.56.

I have never shot a M16. But I have talked to too many combat tested marines to believe otherwise. It is the POS that when the marines complained that they would jam during a fire fight, McNamara's buddies said it was 'cause they weren't cleaning their rifles enough. As if a marine doesn't keep a clean weapon or that you could call a time-out for rifle cleaning during a fire fight. ROFLMAO
If you're smart and somebody(s) that is creditable tells you the fire is hot, you don't have to stick your finger in it.

quote:

Originally posted by Haggis:

quote:

Originally posted by filmit:
I've always wondered why nearly all factory 22-250 rifles come with the slow 1 in 14" twist. Isn't that like a restrictor plate on a nascar motor.

The 22-250 would be awesome with heavy bullets but you have to do a custom rebarrel to get the fast twist. You can get the 223rem with 1in9" or even 1in7" why not the 22-250. There has to be a reason unless it's just the fact that gun factories follow suit because the other guy is doing it that way (monkey see monkey do).

I would think if there were a fast twist factory option (and maybe there is I don't know about) it would sell like mad.

Me too, come on lads, anybody shed some light here??

Most who buy factory 22-250s are varmint shooters. Varmint shooters want bullets that make small varmints explode and most of the longer match type bullets do not. Bullets fired in faster twists need heavier jackets to stay together. Smalll varmints are also small targets so over practical shooting distances the slower twists with 40 - 50 gr bullets work extremely well. That's what most shooters want to buy in a 22-250 so that what the factories sell. Most match rifle shooters have custom barrels put on which doesn't make the rifle manufacturers any money. It all just comes down the the usual bottom line....$s.

I've had a fast twist 22-250 and barrel life was horrible. It may be ok to a match rifle shooter of even a specialized varmint shooter but to the average varminter it can be a serious negative. As mentioned Savage and Remington are offering 9" twist 22-250s so we'll see how much the market will bare for them.

Personally I've been varminting with 22-250s with 14" twists for 35 years using 55 gr bullets and have found little need for heavier twists or heavier bullets.

Larry Gibson

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Gibson:
Personally I've been varminting with 22-250s with 14" twists for 35 years using 55 gr bullets and have found little need for heavier twists or heavier bullets.

Larry Gibson

Here's the original post:

quote:

Originally posted by olrvrat:
Hello all. I read here alot but don't post much.
I'm thinking of rebarreling my old ruger m77 22-250.
What is the best twist ratio for 50 to 60 grain bullets? Would 1 in 10 work and also let me shoot heavier bullets?
Thanks

I'm going with Larry on this one.....

The max bullet asked about was 60 grains.....and that bullet might actually want a 12" twist but will work in a 14" twist too!

I wouldn't attempt anything faster than 12" twist in the 22-250 unless one wanted to shoot EXCLUSIVELY the 60+ grain bullets.

There are quite a few bullets that just won't make it fifty yards without blowing up in mid air and with the faster twists this gets to be a real problem with some of the better varmint bullets.

I'd stay with the standard 14" twist in the 22-250 and stay with the 55 grainers....try a few 60 grainers and shoot them if you like them.....I can assure you that theres quite a few 55s out there that will do justice to all your wants and needs for the 22-250

quote:

Originally posted by Larry Gibson:
Personally I've been varminting with 22-250s with 14" twists for 35 years using 55 gr bullets and have found little need for heavier twists or heavier bullets.
Larry Gibson

The next 35 years however may very well see the end of lead cored projectiles. Tightening up on twist rate may not be a totally ridiculous idea. Personally, I'd take a faster twist if it was available, without going to the extremes of say a 1:7". A 1:12" or 1:10" in a 22/250 doesn't seem too extreme to me.
Cheers...
Con