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I am using a Remmy 700 CDL in 243 and have had some great results using 55 grain Nosler & 58 grain V-Max over H4895. Problem became apparent when shooting this beyond 150 yards. The accuracy has gone to pot. I was expecting a 2" drop, but managed to open the group out to 5". The remmy has a 1-9 ish twist and the bullets are coming out around 400 fps: Is this an issue of too fast a twist?

Using 55s & 58s I also get a pretty impressive flash from the muzzle. Can I have some recommendations on powders for the 243 under 55s & 70s?


DW
 
Posts: 156 | Location: UK Oxford | Registered: 12 August 2005Reply With Quote
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Perhaps the bore condition and twist are a strain for the light bullets. Try reducing the load some and clean the barrel good and try again.

I shoot the 58 gr VMax out of a 1-10 twisted 243 Kimber. The load shoots so good that I would buy another 243 if I needed to shoot some other 6mm hunting bullet.

I use 44.5 grs of IMR 4064 in Lapua brass and CCI br primers. The seating depth is 2.595" and the MV is 3750 fps. The reason for the light load is that I can see the bullet hit varmints.

You might also work up a load for 70 gr bullets. You could shoot up the small bullets with lighter loads for short shots and keep the noise down too. I use 4350 for all weights from 70 grs up in the 243.


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Posts: 5543 | Registered: 09 December 2002Reply With Quote
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You may also want to try the Sierra 60gr. HP.

I have had very good accuracy out to 300+ yards using this bullet with very good expansion.
 
Posts: 265 | Location: Bulverde, Texas | Registered: 08 February 2005Reply With Quote
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Cool

Johnny,

You've already received some good advice from Savage on this light bullet issue with the .243. Winchester.

My expereince with these light bullets in .243 Win. is that they will deliver acceptable accuracy but with charges that are sorta "pushing the enveleope" so to speak, i.e., at high velocity. If you are a reloading novice I would avoid this.

Like Savage, I've found the lighter bullets in .243 Win. require the so-called "Medium" burning powders for best accuracy and ensuing increased velocity. I've used IMR-4320 & IMR-4895 & IMR-4064 in these applications with good results but always got alot of muzzle flash from these powders, especially in shorter barrels. The sorta standard for this catridge 85-100 grain bullets will often do better with "Slower" powders, a good example being IMR or H-4350 or VV N-160 or VV N-560.

The overall best accuracy & velocity combination I've got from the .243 Win. with "lighter" bullets was the Sierra 60 grain HP's, like Savage mentioned; with H-4350 and that with a pretty stiff load.

These bullets are great is you want to pot (read: blow-up) rabbits and such for vermin control in the UK but I would defiantely not use them on any type of larger game, they are way too explosive!


Cheers,

Number 10
 
Posts: 3433 | Location: Frankfurt, Germany | Registered: 23 December 2004Reply With Quote
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I play with both the 55 grain BT and the 60 grain HP a lot.....

RL 15, IMR 4064, W 748, H 380, Varget IMR 4350, H 4350 are all good powders...

As everyone knows here it seems, I also use Blue Dot powder....

22.5 grains will give you an MV about 3200 fps with either of the above bullets...Recoil is substantially less....

I personally don't care for H 4895 as I have had the same results that you experienced with accuracy... IMR's 4895 is a lot more consistent...

Not sure what you have available in the UK, but any of the above listed powders will do a lot better for accuracy consistency....

cheers
seafire
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Posts: 16144 | Location: Southern Oregon USA | Registered: 04 January 2005Reply With Quote
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How do you get to shoot on England? I thought firearms were all but outlawed in your country.Hard to believe with all the great Hunting heritage of the empire.
 
Posts: 8 | Location: Alabama | Registered: 04 January 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Johnny foreigner:
Problem became apparent when shooting this beyond 150 yards. The accuracy has gone to pot. I was expecting a 2" drop, but managed to open the group out to 5".


Do you mean that your accuracy at several hundred yards is not proportional to your accuracy at 100 yards? By that, I mean that if you are shooting 1" groups at a hundred, you are expecting approximately 3" groups at 300.

If this is the case, I would be more suspicious of wind dispersion than of a problem with twist/spin or whatever. The 55/58 grain bullets are VERY susceptable to wind, and even a light, uneven wind can wreck havoc with groups at 300 yards.

I have used the 55 Nosler with IMR 4895 (about 3925 fps) and it has exhibited excellent accuracy, even slightly better at 100 yards than the same bullet in a 70 grain weight. However, under slightly windy conditions, the 70 grainer is the better performer due to its greater wind resistance.

Try waiting for windless conditions to check your 55/58 bullets at extended yardage. I think you'll find that they shoot as well as you would expect when the wind leaves them alone.
 
Posts: 13280 | Location: Henly, TX, USA | Registered: 04 April 2001Reply With Quote
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Mitchellsp

Rifle and shotgun shooting in the U.K. is still ok if you have a licence which you can get if you can show you have a reason to own a gun and somewhere/thing legal to shoot with it. Handguns are the things that are totally banned.
 
Posts: 63 | Location: Yorkshire, England | Registered: 24 January 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by mitchellsp:
How do you get to shoot on England? I thought firearms were all but outlawed in your country.Hard to believe with all the great Hunting heritage of the empire.


Thanks all.
Some great advice here. I expect the pushing the envelope comment is an accurate appraisel.
I'll try some lighter loads and heavier bullets.

As for shooting in the UK: The laws are tough, but you can get licenses if you have somehwere to shoot and prove you are "suitable".

Thanks again


DW
 
Posts: 156 | Location: UK Oxford | Registered: 12 August 2005Reply With Quote
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I thought I read a story about England looking to ban reloading. Something about ammunition sales were restricted, but component sales were wide open. Some folks found out about it and got hot. At any rate. I can't say enough about the sierra 60 grain hp. For some reason, it is my Remington 700's favorite. The rifle does not like deer weight bullets. Great on groundhogs.
 
Posts: 831 | Location: Virginia | Registered: 28 January 2005Reply With Quote
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Johnny foreigner try 87grn Vmax,
fed210m primer
lapua case
44grn Vhit 160 = big lots of red mist
 
Posts: 165 | Location: North Yorkshire yippeeeee | Registered: 08 May 2004Reply With Quote
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What is the fascination with these tiny pills for the .243? The cartridge is not a high volume varmint cartridge and the 50-60 grain bullets for the caliber have the BC of a brick. I don't get it. bewildered




If yuro'e corseseyd and dsyelixc can you siltl raed oaky?

 
Posts: 9647 | Location: Yankeetown, FL | Registered: 31 August 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by 390ish:
I thought I read a story about England looking to ban reloading. Something about ammunition sales were restricted, but component sales were wide open. Some folks found out about it and got hot. At any rate. I can't say enough about the sierra 60 grain hp. For some reason, it is my Remington 700's favorite. The rifle does not like deer weight bullets. Great on groundhogs.


We can reload at present, but it could change. The laws are quite strict on components. An expanding projectile, say a 55g V-Max bullet head is actually classed as a fully loaded round.
Our FACs (Firearms Certificates) dictate how much ammunition of each calibre you can have. If you had a maximum of 50 to hold of 223 amd then you bought a box of 100 V-Max heads, theoretically, you have just broken the law. I know of a shooter locally who can purchase a maximum of 20 223 cartridges (loaded) and hold a maximum of 23. That example is extreme, but not unheard of. I am lucky as I have access to a fair amount of land and shooting, so I can hold/reload/buy a reasonable amount of ammunition and or components.
Powder, cases and I think primers are available over the counter without requiring proof of a lisence. Saying that I know my local retailer will not allow you to buy primers or powder without presenting them with proof of having an FAC. I am happy with the system but it does make it difficult to aquire a high number of firearms so we tend to opt for rifles like the 243 that are good varmint and Deer (most smaller species), rather than dedicated rifles for each type of quarry.

Another interesting fact is that any air rifle above 12ft/Lbs is classed as a firearm and requires you to have an FAC.


DW
 
Posts: 156 | Location: UK Oxford | Registered: 12 August 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by DigitalDan:
What is the fascination with these tiny pills for the .243? The cartridge is not a high volume varmint cartridge and the 50-60 grain bullets for the caliber have the BC of a brick. I don't get it. bewildered


I load the 58 grain Vmax to 3800 fps using IMR4064. From 100 -300 yards it is absolutely explosive!


Frank



"I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money."
- Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953

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Posts: 12846 | Location: Kentucky, USA | Registered: 30 December 2002Reply With Quote
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I don't doubt that they have a big red mist index up close, but so pretty much everything at those velocities. For that matter, a 6mm at 3500-3700 fps has some serious snap to it as well, and that is for 70-75 grain bullet loads from Hornady and Nosler.

I recognize that some use the 6mm as a dual use cartridge, ie. Varmints/Big Game, so it might be commonly loaded for both. In specific application however the .243 and 6mm Remington have too much case capacity for something such as high volume prairie dog shooting, yet OTOH it is a fine long range round IF loaded with proper bullets. I do not understand why one would want to load a low BC bullet for a cartridge like that. Much the same thought applies to the .224 bore with some of the 30-35 grain bullets out there, though in some cases that may be more logical. The .22 Hornet vs. Ground Squirrels comes to mind.

Maybe "just because..." ??? Confused

BTW, I've read that some are quite a way past 4000 fps with those wee little bullets in the .243, don't know if that's true though.




If yuro'e corseseyd and dsyelixc can you siltl raed oaky?

 
Posts: 9647 | Location: Yankeetown, FL | Registered: 31 August 2002Reply With Quote
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Around here you are dealing with groundhogs, not prarie dogs. Most shots are inside 300 yards. Most folks don't take more than ten shots in a day shooting groundhogs. My rifle shoots the light bullets better than those weighing more than 75 grains. The 55 grain ballistic tip and 60 grain sierra will make a 6-7 pound groundhog come unglued at the correct range.
 
Posts: 831 | Location: Virginia | Registered: 28 January 2005Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by DigitalDan:
What is the fascination with these tiny pills for the .243? The cartridge is not a high volume varmint cartridge and the 50-60 grain bullets for the caliber have the BC of a brick. I don't get it. bewildered


The listed Ci for the Nosler 6mm 55 gr BT is .276 and the Hornady 58 gr is .250. These are about equal to the same weights in .224. A 243 is therefore capable of out shooting a Swift if both use 55 gr bullets at least in theory.

As I infered above I am all set with a load for my new Kimber 84M Montana using the 58 gr VMax starting at 3750 fps. When I got the rifle I shot it with 70 gr bullets, 95 gr bullets and the 55 & 58 gr pills. It shot all bullets very well.

Then I tried the 58's at 200 yds and got very small groups even in the wind. It seemed to be able to hit where I aimed day in and day out so I went hunting with it. My big suprise was that when I hit a coyote at 283 yds with that load I could see the bullet hit in that I saw the coyote flip in the air and land on it's back.

I had never seen that before even after shooting thousands of critters. Now the primary reason for me being able to see the bullet hit must be the very straight stock on the Kimber and it's minimal drop at the heel. Some of the credit goes to the light bullet however and it's fast barrel time.

So I can hit stuff with that load to 400 yds just like it was a Swift only the rifle weighs five pounds sans scope and best of all I can see the bullet hit. Thus this rifle has gestalt.


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Posts: 5543 | Registered: 09 December 2002Reply With Quote
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10-4 Smiler




If yuro'e corseseyd and dsyelixc can you siltl raed oaky?

 
Posts: 9647 | Location: Yankeetown, FL | Registered: 31 August 2002Reply With Quote
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My loading manual lists 44.5 gns AR 2206H (sold as H 4895 in the U.S.) as a maximum load with the 55gn bullet in the .243 at 4060 fps .
Maximum of 45 gns Varget gets 3990 .
I have had a Swift and currently have a .243 Ackley . These pills certainly put the .243 in the same class for flat trajectory . I shoot them regularly at 385 yds with good success .
None of the commonly available 55 gn .224 projectiles have a better BC than the the .243 55gn Nosler BT .


The hunting imperative was part of every man's soul; some denied or suppressed it, others diverted it into less blatantly violent avenues of expression, wielding clubs on the golf course or racquets on the court, substituting a little white ball for the prey of flesh and blood.
Wilbur Smith
 
Posts: 916 | Location: L.H. side of downunder | Registered: 07 November 2004Reply With Quote
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I am using the same rifle, the same load with 58 gr v-max's, getting the same speed and results as savage99. I love this little rifle, and it shoots 5-shot groups pretty consistently into .8". It is hell on marmots and coyotes to 300 yds.
 
Posts: 866 | Location: Western CO | Registered: 19 February 2004Reply With Quote
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Ignoring with difficulty all the political shit.

55gr BTs worked very well in both of the 243s I have had and at pretty soft loads too. They are so light that you will allways get quite a flash and loud muzzle blast unless you go to the absolute lowest end of advertised powders, even so you will get flash.

I have used start loads of VVN133 (advertised in the Viht book or web) under 55gr BTs for 3,500fps and excellent accuracy. At this velocity they quite often exited muntjac. I have also used them under 25gr of SR4759 at which point I was emulating a 223 - again not explosive bullets at this speed.

The attraction - we hunt in some quite crowded places that I'm sure in the US would be designated not for rifle use. High speed and light reduces the likelihood of richochet and makes the 243 a true dual purpose cartridge.
 
Posts: 2032 | Registered: 05 January 2005Reply With Quote
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To offer some input on your question. I ‘m currently shooting, a Remington VLS in the 243 caliber(9 and 1/8 inch twist). I have been shooting the 55 grainers for awhile both the Nosler Ballistic Tip (24055) and the Sierra BlitzKing (1502). I’ve shot some of the Hornady 58 grain V-Max (22411) but prefer the Sierras and Noslers. Our choice of powder for this load is IMR 4064 with CCI 200 primers and the chronograph speed is over 4000 FPS. We worked the load up from the commercial charts. The accuracy is excellent out to three hundred yards, that’s the length of our range. We have however taken chucks, coyotes and foxes out to and past 350 yds with the Sierras and Noslers, the devastation is quite remarkable, no tracking involved here, not good if you want the fur. That’s what shot good for us hopefully it will help.
 
Posts: 23 | Location: Peoples Republic of N.Y. | Registered: 10 November 2004Reply With Quote
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I have a Remy with a 9" twist and it loads the light bullets too much to drive them fast, occasionally you see them dintegrate and shower targets with bits of jacket. I have had huge success with 70 gr bullets using Viht 140 but being in the uk myself, i know what you mean about light and fast being safe! That whining makes my spine tingle! Still v-max are nice and fragile, my 50's out of the 22-250 just go plop when they hit but my 17grainers out of my HMR ricochet badly!, 22-250 is safer me thinks. Hope you are successfull.
 
Posts: 63 | Location: Yorkshire, England | Registered: 24 January 2005Reply With Quote
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Update.

Tried to get IMR powder over here and no-one as yet sells it. Apparently one of the larger suppliers will be as of February.
Used the Nosler 55s over 45.5 of varget and the groups were fantastic. A three shot group measured .39 so happy with that.
One odd thing we have found is that the Nosler CBTs
do not work as well as the standard B-Tip. Apart from the coating, I thought they were the same.

So far it has accounted itself for 7 foxes over three nights, so no problems.
The 70s and 95s are being loaded now to see where we get with that.

Thanks all.


DW
 
Posts: 156 | Location: UK Oxford | Registered: 12 August 2005Reply With Quote
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