I'm new to the 264 WM and was wondering if there is a consensus on hunting bullets? I have good accuracy with 130gr Scirocco's, TSX's and NAB's, 140 gr Sierra Game King and NAB. Both the 130 and 140 run low 3,200 fps.
Nothing over 300 yards, probably.
I have several boxes of factory Winchester 140 psp.

Running those speeds do I need to stick with the mono's and bonded?

Perry

Any one of the bullets you mentioned will work fine for deer Shoot whatever is the most accurate in your gun.

Years ago, I had one of the original pre-64 Westerners. My favorite bullet was the 120 gr. Speer. At an estimated 3350 fps,it shot extremely flat and worked great on mule deer and antelope, so would also be fine for whitetails.

Clarence

Is a non-bonded bullet going to come apart at these velocities on medium game?

Perry

That might be a bit fast for a cup-and-core bullet, especially at close range velocities, assuming you want something left for the freezer.

Guess you guys like blood shot sauage!

If I were to shoot the 264 on white tail or Mule deer, Id likely load the 160 gr. Speer at 2600 fps and hope for the best..

My deer gun is the 7x57 at 2800 with a 130 gr. Speer FB it knocks a 2" exit and not too much blood shot meat...

The common retort to high velocity bullets that ruin meat is "shoot,em in the ribs," these guys have not shot a lot of deer, Ive seen back strap and both shoulders blood shot shootingthem in the rib cage..

Guess Im the pot....

quote:

Guess you guys like blood shot sauage!

+1.

We've all heard the adage to "use enough gun". The addendum to that is "but not too much". The 264 is a great round but it really is overkill on whitetail.

I would be predisposed to the Accubond and 140 grains in any bullet style.

All of them listed will turn a buck into 4 quarters.

The 264 WM in my mind is perfect for few things, but deer seems to fit its holster.


I ain’t killed the numbers most on here, but I was not upset with meat loss with my 7mm STW with whitetail at 160 grains at 3202 FPS.

The tenderloins, backstraps, roast and shoulder not hit were fine.

There was a lot of bloodshot on the exit flank/ribs.
The angle of the shot kept the bullet off the off shoulder.

The 264 WM is what 140 at 2960-3000 FPS. The 270 Win is 140 at 2900.

I would stay away from 120 grains simply because I like more weight over the difference in velocity. I have not killed anything with a Speer in any configuration, but 120 is not heavy in the 264 caliber and the Speer is a soft bullet. If 140 grain .264 Accubond at 3000 FPS won’t get you there, then we need to call in the artillery.


I have shot deer with the 375 Ruger, so use what you want.

I have been killing deer with a 264 for 30 years. I have used 120 TTSX, 129 Hornadys both regular and bonded, 130 TSX and both 125 and 140 Nosler partitions. All have done the job with no excessive meat loss.

Excellent info Tjay.

Add another 30 years with the 264 for me too.
I have used nothing but 120 grn nosler solid base, the old ones. Shot dozens of deer, antelope and caribou with that bullet at 3250 fps. Blood sausage? bullshit, shoot them in the lungs and you have a dead deer with an exit hole. I butcher my own game, bloodshot is no worse then most any other rifle in the 243 to 30-06 with 150's range. Does anyone say blood sausage with a 270? No, and a 270 acts the same. There is no need to take shoulder shots, that's where you ruin meat.

Ok I;ll say the 270 is as bad as the 264, but you can always load both down to about 2500 FPS and they kill just as well adn with about any bullet.

Ive shot a lot of whitetail with a 30-06 while culling does, used the 200 gr. Accubond and it did the job..Its velocity that bloodshoots meat..
and by your own admission the off side gets bloodshot? of course it does with any bullet, the off side gets the expanded bullet.

To me the best whitetail caliber is the little 250-3000 and my 25-35 ain't bad at all over bait..

By who's admission the offside is bloodshot?
I don't count animals I've shot, but the 264 and 120 nosler SB has taken more deer for me then anything else. From as close as 80 yds to over 400 yds I've never butchered one shot in the lungs that had bloodshot in the backstraps.
Sometimes I scratch my head over some of your replies Ray.

Been using high intensity cartridges on small deer for years.
The best bullet for reducing bloodshot meat is the Accubond, expands enough to kill fast but not enough to destroy a lot of meat. In the 264WM, I use the 130gr AB for medium sized deer.
I use them in 25, 26, 27 & 30 in excess of 3200fps muzzle velocity and they work flawlessly.
For shots beyond 500 I like the ABLR.

Cheers.

The worst bloodshot I have seen was the cow elk this year with the 35 Whelen. She died in seconds with a massive exit.

I do not care. The butcher said, “You are going to lose meat here and up. WY won’t let us cut that.”

I got the photo if you need proof.

I had a Sako in .264 back in the early 80’s. A friend reloaded cartridges for it for me, and he used whatever bullets were available at the time. I suspect they were meant for the 6.5x55 as the blew up on deer at the higher velocity of the .264. Buy stout bullets and this shouldn’t be a problem.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
Guess you guys like blood shot sauage!

If I were to shoot the 264 on white tail or Mule deer, Id likely load the 160 gr. Speer at 2600 fps and hope for the best..

My deer gun is the 7x57 at 2800 with a 130 gr. Speer FB it knocks a 2" exit and not too much blood shot meat...

The common retort to high velocity bullets that ruin meat is "shoot,em in the ribs," these guys have not shot a lot of deer, Ive seen back strap and both shoulders blood shot shootingthem in the rib cage..

Guess Im the pot....

I think you are right my friend.

I made a wildcat, 270/404, and shot only one animals with it.

I cannot remember the velocity I was getting.

We were following some kudu bulls, and jumped a very good bushbuck.

He was running away less than 200 yards away.

I fired a shot at him, and he dropped.

When we skinned him, he was just a sack of congealed blood!

That was the first, and last animal I shot with that cartridge.

When I got home, I rebarreled that rifle with a shortened version of the 270/404.

Shot an eland with it at 500 yards.

Keep scratching Back40, I just calls em like I see em..your post got me to scratching..

I shot a doe at 281 yds with my 264 WM, 130gr TSX at 3,260fps. She was quartering to me, the bullet entered just in front of her shoulder and came to rest just under the skin of the off side ham. The amount of blood shot tissue SHOCKED me! I'm also using 130gr Sciriccos. Not as much blood shot tissue but man the blood trails. I'm used to 308, 7x57, 257 Roberts.

I've shot a bunch of deer with a .270 Winchester using plain ole 130 gr cup and core bullets around 3100 fps give or take a few. Nosler solid base being my favorite but Rem Corelokts worked fine as well. All were pass throughs except for a small few and probably all of the jackets fragmented and separated. But its hard to tell as I said...they usually were pass throughs.

The .264 Win Mag is a kissing cousin of the .270 in terms of bullet weights, energy and velocity. I would not hesitate to use a 130 or 140 grain cup ad core bullet in a .264 on deer.

The only rifle I really experienced a lot of bloodshot meat with was a 7mm Rem Mag....

Get your deer home and skin it right out. You will have minimal bloodshot meat. Put it the back of a truck and bounce it around awhile, pound all the blood into the tissue, then hang it for awhile so it can spread a little more, trapped by the skin. Presto, lots of bloodshot meat.

Scratching my head again!! dead meat will not bruise or bleed, blood will settle, but that takes quite some time and will not effect meat but I guarentee anyone that says a bullet that is traveling 3300 to 3500 FPS and in the 264 even more is going to have lots of ruind meat and lots of bloodshot meat, end of story..Anyone thats shot a lot of game knows that...the rest is BS..

Ray
Again this year I was reminded that few hunters process their own game meat. I grew up doing it so it always seems normal. Many never see the deer with the skin off or certainly never spend the hours with a knife and wrapping paper. I now user freezer bags... Without that view of the meat it’s hard to really know I would say. I remember when our family acquired a 30-06 instead of the 30-30 and 32 specials we all used. All of us saw and understood the difference of bloodshot meat. I remember my dad and uncle talking about using a “cannon” like that on deer. Perspective.

Fury,,
I also remember those days, during the big depression, and on into later years, we ate deer as beef we had to sell..It took a long time for the 25-35s and 30-30s to give way to the 30-06 and its distruction of meat, and only my generation allowed it to happen.

That was the birth of commercial hunting, and the destruction of meat was secondary if even a question, today its even more obvious and most have never had the opertunity to adjust to the taste of wild meat, I remember when dad said no more deer killing folks are paying $50 a deer, we started eating our own beef and I like to never developed a taste for that greasy shit!! Today I even prefer beef!

I know a lot of hunters who kill deer and elk, make sausage out of it and give it away, some eat it once or twice and it goes bad in their freezers..Many on the internet do the same but hush hush, thats their dirty little secret, mordern man at his worst..not to mention the younger generation of housewives that are apauled by wild game meat are any meat not in a styroid package incased by clear plastic.... It the coming of a new world. They would never accept a deer carcass on the kitchen table being boned out and packaged or hanging out on the poarch in the winter months, and you cut off what you wanted to eat for supper! but those are the days I miss the most, but it hasn't changed that much around my house...I remember when we built a new house and grampaw said "Im not living in a house with a toilet inside! next thing you know we will be allowed to wear our spurs indoors and keep our hats on in the house!"

Blood, and whatever has been perforated internally travels between the muscle layers, and the skin. When the heat isn't allowed to escape, as in laying in a pick-up bed for hours, and pounded around. All that shit spoils and bacteria spreads it even more.
Ray, if I bloodshot meat like you seem to say, I would use something different, as the meat is number one for me, couldn't care less about horns. It is a non issue with the shots I take with my 264.

There is nothing more standard ie slower than the 35 Whelen at 2700 FPS. I took the hide off in the field and did the quartering. Elk was dead and recovered in seconds. I can show you bloodshot at on the exit side. Killing is not pretty. Elmer Keith’s claim of eating right up to the bone with the 35 Whelen was not observed. The butcher had to scrape half a front quarter because the State would not let him cut it. I want damage. If you want photographic proof send me an email or phone number. I also have had 5 elk dinners and one deer bone in smoked ham roast for the last week. There are no left overs.


The shoulder blade was not struck.

Over the years we put together a good processing set up, including a small walk in cooler. Between family and friends we will run 20-50 deer,bear and moose through a year.
What many people call and looks like, bloodshot is blood/fluids in between the subcutaneous layers of muscle. If you separate the muscle and fascia you can save a lot of it. Cut down through multiple layers of muscle and it looks like ruined meat. I have seen ruined sides of meat with any number of calibers/cartridges, fast and slow. Sometimes it doesn't make sense. I even talk to our vet, and show him carcasses to see what he thinks. Many factors at play.
There are no "always" when it comes to how bullets react in flesh. I avoid all large bone on anything that is headed for my table. I feel it gives me the cleanest meat to work with.

Not quite apples to apples, but the 142 ABLR would not get my vote.

I shot a pronghorn with my .26 Nosler with that. It did a great job of killing the animal, but it looked like it had been hit by a HE round inside, and the bullet did not exit.

Bonded bullet or no, with enough velocity they come apart. That bullet was going about 3300 per my chronograph at the muzzle.

That’s close enough to the WM velocity that I personally would stick with the monometal bullets for eating... although it will drop the game pretty much where you shoot it.

What bullet were you pushing at 2700 in the Whelen sir? I used some 225x at 2750-2800 in mine for a couple of years but just on whitetail deer. Devastating killer but didn’t get much bloodshot meat. I can see where with the greater resistance of an elk one would be pushing more blood into meat.

225 grain Accubonds on the top of the heart with picture perfect expansion. I had a crisis in transportation with my family 24 hours away and lost the bullet, but I have pictures of it.

I was very happy with the bullet and the damage. Damage equals dead.

quote:

She died in seconds with a massive exit

Where did you find the bullet if it exited. Just wondering.

It exited the tissue/muscle-skeletal structure and was found poking against the off side hide. I have pictures of that too.

I think they are posted in the hunt report in the American sub forum.

Thank you sir. I remember reading that report now. Excellent it was. Sorry for your crisis. Glad it resolved well.

I appreciate that.

Merry Christmas,
Fury01.

At 75 yards that 358 bonded bullet at 2700 fully expanding and staying inside the elk struck a huge blow. Every shot on live game is an individual experiment but indeed yours rendered the off side bloodshot in any bodies measure.
Elmer was shooting 275 and 300 grain bullets at 2200-2400 likely and his experiments rendered different results.
My best to you and your family this sacred season sir.

Please do not call me sir. Be well.

If I ever get a 6.5 itch beyond the 6.5 Swede, it, more than likely, would be the 264 Winchester. I am just happy with the 270 Win in that class.

Good hunting all and be warm.

I have a 1960 year model pre-64 264 win mag that will be at FFL guys shop today, it has the blued stainless 26 inch barrel, Westerner I believe they're called, I ran a stability program on a 1.381 inch bullet [160gr Woodleigh protected point] at 3000 fps from a 9 twist barrel, bullet is fully stabilized, that said, I cant find any 160gr Woodleighs, gun shop guy is holding a box of PPU 140gr soft points, will zero the rifle with those, i'll install and bore sight an old steel tube Weaver 4-12x40 AO in Weaver rings and bases while waiting on approval.

160gr Woodleighs or 140gr Partitions from 29 to 3000 fps will do all I need doing on anything I'd point a 264 win mag at, FED-215/CCI-250/Rem 9-1/2's with a new bag of 50 count PPU brass, RL-33 and US 869 powders at the ready, need to find some 160gr Woodleigh PP's.

Roger that. Lifetime habit. My apologies.

Back40,
All I can say is scratch on stratcher! all I can say is the 264 ruins meat as do some other calibers, but so does the 22-250 and 220 swift, its bullet construction and velocity, end of story..