What has ever happened to the 25-35 cal? I used to see them made for T/C contenders, and some lever guns. Has it become obsolete? Or is that maybe a silly question since I don`t see it anymore. I`m just curious. Thanks,

The 25/35 is just about dead...underpowered as it is, it doesn't attract the attention of today's crowd..Having said that I immensely enjoy my Winchesters chambered for it, finding them quite accurate and a real pleasure to shoot....plenty of power for wild turkeys, coyotes and the like but too marginal (at least to my thinking) for anything larger.....

I have the "rimless version", a .25 Remington. It belonged to my wife's grandfather and father, and while I haven't used it to hunt deer, they certainly found it not to be lacking in that category.

If my memory is correct, the long time standing record whitetail " The Jordan Buck " was killed with a 25/35.

TLee

I have a rack full of rifles, big bores mostly for my African trips in my business....

The 25-35 was discontinued by Win. about 1935..I have allways had one or two of them including the old rifle I had as a kid...I killed my first 3 elk with that gun, one shot each, and quite a lot of deer, I have lost one deer because of lousy shooting, but I can say that about my 06 as well...

Every fall in Idaho where I live, I take that old iron sighted 25-35 and shoot my deer with it, have never found it lacking, but I don't try long shots and bad angle shots with it and when used like that it is an excellent deer or elk rifle. My father killed about 35 elk with a 25-35..Sure I pass up some big bucks that are too far off that I would have shot with a 270, but I've shot my share of big deer, so someones kid or wife might get the ones I let go..that makes me feel pretty good...I did kill a 34" buck that hangs in my office with that old gun...I think it takes me back in time, brings up old good memories and it just makes me happy...

What a caliber!! and my grandkid thanks so and so did his daddy, his uncle, his aunt his great grandfather..They all used this rifle.

With western action so popular, I think the 25/35 may be chambered again soon. Many of the lady shooters seem to like the 32/40, 25/20 & 32/20's as rifles for side matches.

It is a terrific cartridge!

At the last gun show I attended one table had
two Savage 99s in .25-35, they were in very rough
condition, both gone when I made my second round
price was 450 a piece if I remember correctly.

Thanks a lot for the excellent replies to this, I really do appreciate it. Mr. Atkinson, it sounds like you`ve really had some great times with your 25-35, how nice it sounds. I live in Idaho too and just love it!

Jordan killed the buck with an even smaller 25 caliber cartridge-the 25/20....

Ray,

Your posting is the exact reason that I love the older cartridges. The stories told by older people who used cartridges that by todays standards could not dust off a prairie dog or crow with.

An the gentleman from San Antonio, who missed picking up a Savage 99 in 25/35! I would have even loved to just be able to see one of those old rifles, and just held it and felt the memories of the rifles hunting days. I saw an overpriced Savage 99 in 38/55 at a gunshow ( $1500.00 and it was in real rusty shape) I did not buy it, but it sure was a treat to get to hold it for a few moments and shoulder it and look down the sights.

And Ray, how you speak of hunting within the limits of the round of the 25/35. It sure sounds a lot more responsible and my idea of hunters ethics then the guys I see with the Magnumitis.
Compare what you did with the old Winchester, Elk even. Then other guys that talk about shooting deer at 700 yds, or even ground hogs. ( Ruffhewn is a retired Marine so I trust his shooting ability, but many others don't have that under their belt).

The more I get to read your posts, it hits me the same as the joy of being able to hold up the old Savage 99 at the gun show I refered to. A few seconds of history, when things were better about this country and the men that lived in it!

Nice to hear that other folks really like the ol' 25-35.!!! My cousin in Llano county,TX has the '94 Winchester carbines that his grandfather and father used for many years. Both rifles accounted for many deer since the 1920's. At a gunshow in Fredericksburg, Tx a couple of years ago I found a 1899 Savage with a 26" half-round,half octogon barrel in about 75% condition. Checking the serial # it was made in 1906. Rifling in the barrel was exceptional and the blueing has mostly turned to brown. Needless to say, this rifle joined the 2 '94 carbines in the gun cabinet. Good rifles/cartridges never go out of style but, unfortunatly, get side-tracked because of the latest "wammer-bammer" gets the press. Such is progress(?).

Ol' John

I picked up an old Winchester 94 of late 1910 or early 1911 vintage, depending on whose set of serial numbers you look at, that has a half magazine, octagon barrel that some IDIOT whacked off to 20" Must have originally been a 26" barrel and they didn't like it. Outside is about 60 to 75 percent and the bore on totally mint. I would dearly love to fine a mint replacement barrel for that rifle and restore it to it's original glory. Right now, it's being used to shoot cast bullets for fun and pleasure. It shoots better than I do, considering my 65 year old nearsighted and wore out eyeballs. Think I'll get a tang sight for it and see if I can shoot a bit better with that.
Paul B.

This year I bought a TC Custom Shop 21" .25-35 Winchester barrel for my Contender. With the factory 117 gr. RN load (2150 fps)or the European version 6.5x52R (S&B, 2000 fps) it is a mild recoiling fun cartridge. Handloading can get "improved" performance if improved performance means higher velocity but I don't see it as necessary. I am loading the Hornady 117 gr. RN to 2250 fps and this load suits me fine.

I'd like to say that I am another of Ray's fans. I like hearing about the old cartridges and their use.

A funny story I like to tell on my dad and his (now mine) 25-35...

He was about the most law abiding man I have ever know, but not much of a gun expert, just a good, hard drinking, cowboy and a gentleman who ranched off and on all his life. when prices were down, he cut hair until things got better.

He hunted Colorado or Utah every year with his two hard drinking, but gentlemanly brothers. They were tougher than wang leather and immune to anything nature could conjure up...Always took my cousins and me and my brother along to hunt and do the worst of camp chores..we all slept in blankets under the same tarp, liked to killed us boys we were in great shape from football but geez those old men were tough..We usually stayed at least 10 days or until everyone filled their tags...they had an old pressure cooker for beans and baked bread or made tortillas, ate what we shot and had lots of bacon and salt pork..

Well one year we came out and the game warden checked or licenses and guns and the 25-35 didn't fit the bill, so off to the judge goes dad...The judge, at the suggestion of the game warden let him go and dismissed the case but gave him a stern warning and dad promised he would certainly get a big rifle for the following year...

When we arrived home, he went directly to the hardware store and bought a rifle..I looked at i and could not believe my eyes, he bought a Sav. M-99 EG in 250-3000 caliber...I said "Dad, that gun isn't much more than a 25-35" at which point he told me to quit being mouthy, that any reasonalble person could see it had more numbers on it than any gun in the store, therefore it was the most powerfull and thats why they put calibers on them. I knew I had pushed that conversation as far as I dared, kids were to be seen and not heard....bisides that he shot a world of elk and deer with that gun, whick always amazed me because it shot 9" high at 100 yards with its iron sights..He simple held low.

Lord I'd give anything to go back there with him one more time, and this time I help him drink his whiskey, but he is gone now and times have changed..But the memories of those hunts and the guns we used will forever be with me. What more can one ask out of life.

A story like that makes me damn proud to own and hunt with a 250-3000.

Ray,

Amen to that last statement and Amen to that post.

What a great story. Just wish I could have heard it over a campfire, instead of on the computer. A campfire is all it was missing to make it perfect.

Thanks for sharing it!!!

On a side note, I was reading somewhere(sorry I'm always reading gun articles), where the 25-35AI ran close to the .257 and was one of the very best of the improved cartridges.

As someone already said,hopefully Cowboy Action Shooting will resurrect the .25-35.

Really enjoyed this thread and everyones stories.

Thanks!!

[ 07-10-2003, 02:10: Message edited by: Henry McCann ]

Ray,

Thanks for another great story. Seems that we miss a lot from the old days even if we didn't have the "conveniences" we have now.

As to the .25-35AI, look at the 7-30 Waters to see just how well the .25-35AI could perform, with .257 bullets of course.

Actually, the .25-35 will, before "improvement" run the 75 gr. VMAX at 2800 fps or in other words is much like the TCU cartridges.

25-35 WCF........I uswisely sold a 1899 Savage takedown in this caliber about 10 years ago, and it took 5+ years to find a decent replacement in this caliber. I looked at "Yukon River Canoe Paddles" for ridiculous prices, and saw NOTHING for under 900 bucks--and most examples were pretty rough.

Finally--after traveling 500 miles to examine it--I got a flatband Win 94 for about half of the usual asking prices for "canoe paddles". Perfect bore, about 90% condition. Like all 25-35's, it shoots like a house afire and handles cast bullets well--as long as velocities stay at or under 1600 FPS. That 1-8" twist does evil things to short cast bullets at higher velocities.

I think the Hornady RN 117's would do fine work to 100 yards on deer if shots are carefully chosen.

I read somewhere that "Old Ephraim", the largest black bear ever taken in North America (1100#) was bagged with a 25-35. How many rounds expended was not detailed........

It would be ABSOLUTELY GREAT if the 25-35 came back in a modern lever gun. I almost had one built on a Marlin 336, but found the above example before committing to the project.

Deputy Al

Al,
The 117 gr. Hornady is an excellent deer killer and you can expect a quick or even an instant kill at up to 100 yards.

I have always been going to try the 86 gr. 25-20 bullet by Remington, but never get around to it...All the factory ammo works great on deer.

What I want is a flat nose Barnes X hollow point that weighs about 85 grs....that would be a duzy...

Ray, early this spring my son and I went on a little metal detecting expedition down a canyon about 15 miles south of Cloudcroft, N.M. I wanted to snoop around the ruins of a small cabin I had discovered earlier. We found a wheat cent, a fist full of old nails and one empty 25/35 cartridge. If this case belongs to you, let me know and I'll mail it to you. If you hate to lose a piece of brass as much as I do, you have probably been worrying about this case for 20 years of more.

Jim

PS - I'm keepin' the penny to cover my expenses.

Pecos,
It may very well be, I spent a lot of time in Cloudcroft. I used to break colts and poison rats for the Gov. on the reservation. I could do the two at the same time and make twice as much money That was in my mispent cowboy youth, and I can't tell you anymore than that for fear of life imprisonment.

I'll never forget the day we got Jack Railys dogs, our guns and chased a huge bear who unfortunatly ran down main street of Cloud Croft with Jacks dogs in full pursuit, and the game warden was drinking coffee, he damn near choked and I hid out with Leand Raily on the Indian reservation for several weeks with Geronomos great great grandson..

Leland caught all kinds of hell on that one, I went home to Marathon, Texas and didn't come back for more than a year, so did the others.... 5 of us were from Texas and Leland was the only New Mexican, so he took the rap, it was his idea in the first place...

Just in case Ray's story inspired one of our readers to share in the experience of owning a Savage 99 in 25-35 - it is pretty - and if I could afford it - but

http://www.auctionarms.com/search/displayitem.cfm?ItemNum=4606679

Ray--

I had the impression that the Hornady 117's would do good work in the 25-35. It's not real tough to build "controlled expansion" into a bullet going at 1700-2200 FPS, and these LONG projectiles are reminiscent of the same company's 160 grain 6.5 mm bullets that do GREAT work on game--far better than their diameter and usual modest velocities would indicate.

BTW--that $750 reserve on the auction site for the Savage 1899 is pretty decent--even if it's re-finished. Most of the 94's and all of the 99's I looked at were in MUCH worse shape than this example, and were priced well in excess of $750. When I got my 1894 flatband with Lachmiller dies, a bunch of new brass, and some factory rounds for 600 bones, I felt like I committed a felony.

Deputy Al

Gee's and I was told I was nuts when I had my gunsmith cook me up a .250-3000 on a short action Remington 700 I had laying around. Its going to be done soon, and its chambered and rifled to shoot 117 gr Hornadays. Its got a 22 inch barrel, tally mounts and a fixed 4x Leupold. I may shoot a carabou or two with it, I know I will take a couple of White Tail Deer in New England this fall. Vacation you know.

I'm glad to see the 25/35 isnt completely forgotten. I had two made up, one on a 336 marlin, the other a win 94. I also have a Rem 14 in 25 Rem and a marlin 25/35 imp. All are the best companions I could want when marking timber, fixing fence, shooting beavers flooding the meadow or just a walk about the farm.

I hope the 25-35 does make a comeback. What a rifle to use teaching kids to shoot. And, Ray is right - an 85 grain XFN from Barnes would be quite the bullet.

Don't underestimate the .250 Savage with good bullets. In fact, I may load some of those 117 Hornady RN's to 2350 for whitetails in the woods.
I think My 99A would like them.

BigIron

I like the 117 gr. Hornady in the 25-35 but I have not shot deer beyond 100 yds with it but it sure works good at that range...I have used it in the 250 Sav. a little, shot some deer with it and it worked fine at 2700, go figure! I have no explanation for that..

Mostly I have use WW S.P. and Rem C.L. factory ammo in the 25-35 and mostly old 100 gr. Win. Silvertips in the 250 and they really worked good on deer and elk...broadside shots at about 100 yds. for elk, no long range shots, but I have shot deer at long range with the 250 and the silvertips and they sure work...

Ray;

Saeed ought to give you your own site on here.

I for one just love the experiences and stories that you share on here. This is more what I thought this forum should be like. I know I am not alone in my thoughts on that.

It is a pleasure to have access to anyone that has the wealth and experience you do and is kind enough to share it with us all.

I am really getting to see the topics and opinions expressed by those with age and experience, and the topics expressed by the younger ones out there. It really shows in attitude, and decorum.

If hunting survives the Anti/s them it would be interesting to see the opinions of these younger guys 20 years from now. If they will still need to carry a 300 Ultra/Long/Short Magnumized Magnum
( 300/50 Caliber Mag), or they embarrassingly learn a good shot with a mild round like a 25/35 can take game just as well, using the limits of the cartridge.

Is a guy who states the merits of a larger long range cartridge, in a bigger caliber, really admitting be default that his abilities to get closer to game is highly lacking? Just my observation and MHO.

Mr. Atkinson, I`m glad I brought this subject up. Some of your stories remind me of Elmer Keith`s in his "hell I was There" book.Very enjoyable writing I might add.

Ray,
Great story. I took a WY antelope and a NM mulie with my Mod 94 shootin Hornady 117s this past year.
The 25-20 bullets don't work real good in the 25-35. They're too short to cycle thru the action like they're supposed to.
Going to take the old Rem Mod 14 hunting this year.

Amen Seafire. For the record...... I am one of those 20 somethings. Just never bought into the magnumitus.

WPM,

Good for you. You are probably a guy that someone does not have to equate the merits of shotplacement to. (Or that more recoil does not mean you are a better hunter)

Remington's 86 gr. ".25-20" bullet comes with 2 cannelures, the one closer to the base being correct for the .25-35 and giving the correct LOA.

However, I'm still looking for a good load for this bullet. My goal is upper end .25-20 velocity or a bit more. I've tried SR4759 but while accurate at 50 yards it is a bit "smokey". However, as I've said before, maybe that isn't important if I bother to clean the barrel!

Personally, I think Ray should write a book. If he has, please, please, give me the title.

Hobie;

As a native Virginian myself;

For lighter loads, I have been playing with Blue Dot and Green Dot in 223s. I had such good luck I also have used it to download several other rifles from 22/250 to 444 Marlin.

The only caliber I did not find a right combo for was in 30/30.

good luck with it!

Hobie,
I am writing a book, have been for 40 years..I have the first chapter half finished...I doubt that I'll make unless I cowboy up!!

"NOW IF I JUST HAD THE EXTRA MONEY.................."

For you 25-35 fellers out yonder--just received in the mail Saturday a brochure from DAKOTA ARMS, INC. on their DAKOTA SHARPS RIFLE..! The Dakota Sharps is scaled to 80% of the original Sharps and it is definitely a firearm of grace and beauty---and you can get it chambered in the 25-35 Winchester. However, the MSRP is $3100.00

Now if I could just win the lottery...........

Ol' John

Hondo,
I also saw that add, and looked like a milk sucking calf for about two hours and I slobbered all over the page...

I think that is a must have, I need some of you guys to start booking hunts so I can rathole enough mad money to get me one.