If you reload, I'd go with the 260 or 7-08. If not, buy the 308 and use reduced loads. The 243 has it's fans and detractors, I'm one. No one will argue with the other three. capt david

A lot of good replies so far!

Here are my thoughts in a little more detail so you guys can see where I'm coming from-

I reload, and my son is getting into it, earlier in the week he helped me load up a couple hundred rounds- he'd charge the case with powder and hand it to me and I'd seat the bullet, and after 50 or so we trade places. However, I want him to have a round he can go into Wal Mart and buy a box of, so if he is out with other people he's not dependant on having to load his own for this gun. That rules heavily against 257R and 7-08. 7X57 has potential but is a little too big I think for what I want.

Where we live we can't use centerfires for deer unless it is a nuisance hunt, so it's utility as a deer round will be limited here, but it can be done under the proper circumstances. Also, he'll be 10 and not 12 or 13, which is a much more appropriate size for a 308. So I am looking for something that will fill the bill for the smaller stuff, but if he asks me if he can use it deer hunting I can tell him yes. Otherwise I'd get him a 223.

Another round I haven't ruled out is the 30-30, as we load that one and I suppose it wouldn't be too bad with 120 gr bullets, but then again I'm easing out of the 10 year old bracket slightly. However if I found an old savage bolt action I'd be tempted I think.

Still, I think a 243 on a short action is high on the list for a light little youth gun, with a 22 inch or so barrel.

And again, it will probably shoot a bunch of coyotes before he even gets the idea of deer with it, but whatever I get him should have a little taste at least of a big game rifle or I wouldn't be the best Dad I can be, would I?

Mark, My daughter started shooting a .260 Remington at 12 years old and handles it pretty good! I loaded her up some 100 grain Nosler BT's and 43.0 grains of VARGET and it is a very pleasant rifle to shoot. I had a youth model .243 for her and she shot it with 80's and 95's but the .260 has a 24" barrel and with the 100's she thinks it's more pleasant then her youth model .243 was! A good friend of mine got his son a Model 7 Rem in 7mm-08(same age as my daughter and about the same size) and with 120's and especially 140's there is a noticable difference in felt recoil between the two. Now if I'd load 140's in the .260 I'm sure that would amplify the recoil too!! She's killed 2 good 8 pointers at 271 yards and 197 yards using the 100's so I'm not going to change over yet!!! GHD

I've only just started playing with a .243, so have very little practical knowledge in its game taking capabilities. What I do know though is that I can take a tonne of recoil but muzzle blast just kills me, and the 243 is a noisy little bugger! For a youngster that may be prone to fliching more as a response to noise rather than actual recoil the .243 may not be the best choice. Loaded down with one of Seafire's Blue Dot loads would solve this however. If I reloaded and was confident that the rifle would be used mostly for medium game rather than varmints, then a 100gr from a 260Rem would be my choice, or better yet 100gr from a 250Savage.
Cheers...
Con

If your son can shoot a 20ga shotgun he should be able to handle the recoil of a "middle" cartridge in with a lighter deer bullet in it. I have brittle bone disease and I can handle about 14 fp of recoil. Here are some recoil tips. Get the gun to weigh more! Add a harris bipod and you take a pound off the rifles recoil. If you want a light rifle he can hold up that makes it tougher. I handload a 30/06 using Hodgens youth loads and with the 125 Nosler BT and a harris bipod making my FN weigh in at 10 pounds the recoil is..well.....fun. Always use ear protection! Always! When he grows up if he wants to choose for his ears to ring thats his choice. Make him wear muffs even when he's hunting game.Replace the ineffective recoil pad with a good one. I remember when I was 9 I imagined the game that would fall to me and "my" rifle. I wanted a big rifle that could kill anything! If your son is like me and every other 9 year old I would think get him a 30/06 Bear Rifle! And then load it with a Nosler 125 gr. with about 38 grs of H4895 and it should kick less than that 20 ga and as he gets older he can up the load on the rifle. Look at Remington's reduced loads if you don't handload. When your 9 imagining hunting anything that walks with "MY" rifle is as much fun as a real hunt. Ask him what he wants. Then make it kick as little as you can.That above load will dump a 9 point buck in his tracks at 265 yards. Trust me. FNMauser

I have used and seen a 243 actually has been a strong game getter as long as the average nimrod is not trying to take Elk with it. It will take Elk, but shotplacement is more key, and most people just aren't that good of a shot. ( whether they think they are or not).

But between a 243, or 6mm Rem or 250 Savage, 257 Roberts, 6.5 x 55, 260, 7/08, or 7x57, one has a lot of well proven cartridges, several that have been proven to have the ability to down some good sized game.

Personally I think cartridges in that crowd are really some of the most competent cartridges for most people's shooting skills.

All choices in life should have that many workable options and yet be so simple to make. There is really no wrong answers to this question.

Good luck on whatever road you take. My bottom line recommendation is what I like best, 6.5 mm or some sort.

Cheers and Good shooting
seafire

Mark, After reading your last reply and the original post I tend to agree that the .243 will be a fit rifle for him to get the "feel of a rifle"! A youth model Remington or the youth model Savage would be good choices!! "No deer hunting with rifles!".......That would be hard to take!!! GHD

Some people may not agree with me but I contend that about 85% of killing power is bullet placement.
I started deer hunting in 1958 with a 243 and have used it(and the 6mm) off and on over the years. In that time I have lost one deer with it do to a foolish Elmer Kieth type shot. I do limit the range to 300yds. or less.
I middle daughter(the only hunting daughter) has a Rem. M700 that I turned down the barrel, lightened and shortened the stock on. With it and 100gr. Sierra's she has killed 5 deer with six shots. True, their off shooting sticks or prone but the placement is what makes this gun a good deer killer. Isn't that what is needed on most deer rifles?

Pedro

I am a big fan of the .243, and have killed damn near everything with it one time or another. As far as calling it marginal for deer, I would disagree. Proper bullet placement (right on Pete) and a good quality bullet (I prefer Barnes X), you can take any big game animal that walks in the lower 48. I have killed over a dozen elk with my .243, and (knock on wood) have not lost one yet. I wasn't throwing lead out to 400 yards, or taking poor shots through timber. If you have a little discipline while hunting, I think you'll find the .243 a great gun for a young hunter to start on. For smaller hunters, I think the Ruger M77 Compact would be a great gun to have in a .243.

Just my $.02

MG

Mark,

Since you mentioned the 30/30, I have found several good loads with the 150 and 170 grain bullets. I have a 30/30 that the family bought new in Europe in 1966. I cherish it for the time it has been in our family. I curse it because you can't hit Texas with it at over 50 yds. So it is my 30/03 test rifle to see if a load is worth a darn or not. If it does well in this rifle then I have a keeper, and some loads do real well in it ( very few and far between tho).

Two keepers and proved the same in my other two 30/30s, was using SR 4759 with a 170 grain bullet, right out of the IMR load data sheet ( the one printed on brown paper).

The second was the 75% load of H 4895 off the Hodgdon youth load site I believe, and the 150 grain Hornady RN/FP bullet.

Both of these groups would embarrass a lot of bolt action rifles at 100 yds. Recoil was in the 243 or even down to the 22/250 class.

My other two 30/30s are a Stainless Steel Marlin 336 and a Winchester Model 94 Legacy with a 24 inch barrel.

Good luck with it!

Cheers and good shooting
seafire

I disagree somewhat with the 85% figure, thinking it more like 95%. I have determined through field testing that .30 bores will not drop a deer when shot through the top of the ears. It does promote Olympic class sprinting behavior however.

I don't recall who it is but one of the posters here ar AR has a sig. that says something abut being able to load down, and I think that opens a lot of avenues in this discussion. Without emitting negative vibes regarding the .243, I would suggest that larger bores have fewer skeptics and greater utility. Mark, one thing you said tickled my fancy a bit, that being your remark about the 25-35. Nothing wrong with that either, but if you don't have one handy you may as well just rebarrel a used levergun in .25-35 AI. It has close to the same numbers as Mr. Roberts though forming brass might be a small bother. Everyone owes it to themselves to have at least one gun that leaves neophytes in awe. Suppose your lad bags a deer next year and all his buddies want to know what he shot it with? And what if they tell their dads? It could spin out of control quicker than JFK trying to make a decision!

Mark, I agree with your choice 100% When outfitting a youngster with a youth sized rifle, Recoil, Muzzle blast and report increase because the rifles dimensions are smaller. I went through this 2 years ago with my 9yr old boy. I had a 6mm Remington 700 and ran across an old 6MM model 7 and bought it for the boy. I had always used 100gr bullets in the 700, When sighting in the model 7 it became clear real quick I was gonna have to drop down to at least an 85gr to make it comfortable to shoot. I found it to be a little thumper with the 100gr's but it did just fine with the 85's.

Terry

If your kid is good enough to poke holes in 'yotes at 200 yards and in, AND can keep his wits about him when the deer is in the crosshairs, the .243 is a fine choice!

BUT...as I am sure you know, it tolerates less than perfect shot placement than larger bores. I have seen shots through the top of the lungs with .243's and they can run a long ways before bleeding out! The same hit with a 7x57, 30-30, or even a .257 Roberts would, in my estimation, have stopped the deer a lot faster.

Single loaded 125 grain Nosler BT's in a 30-30 is a nice coyote load too...

Based on what you've just added .243 is the obvious choice. I might do a Savage for your uses. .243 should be fine for coyotes. I gave my son a Model 7 in 243 at eleven. It shot the 85 gr. Rem. factory loads very well and the 100 gr. Nitrex plenty well enough for deer to 150. I had the wooden stock cut down to fit him and added recoil pads until he was big enough for a factory composite stock. I used it myself for several hunts in steep wooded places where it's light weight was welcome and the 150 yrd. accuracy limit on the 100 gr. bullets was no limitation. I got only clean kills inside 150 yrd.s.

I just bought my son a 243 700ADL. I looked at 243 260 7-08. He is 6. He is going hunting next year. He has no problem with a full sized gun on a bench and shoots it really well. The 20 inch barrel is loud alot of blast. Make sure he has good hearing protection. I am going to limit his shots to half of his effective range after a summer of practice with light 55/70 loads from field positions. He has been preached to and hounded gunsaftey and shot placement for his whole life so those will not be a problem.

Mark, You've had a lot of good advice so far. Hard to go wrong w/ the 243 w/ the correct bullet choice and bullet placement, but you may have to handload to find the former, especially if you want a reduced recoil load.

Some years ago, I recall reading a John Wootter's article, something like "Seven Rounds to Start With and Stay With;" idea was medium game cartridges that were equally good for the beginning hunter to continue using into adulthood. I believe he liked the 250 Savage, 257 Roberts, 6.5X55, 7-30 Waters, 7X08, 300 Savage, and 30/30; this was pre 260 Rem or I'm sure he would've included it, as well.

I'll tell you what I did just a few weeks ago for my 10 year old son. He killed a small whitetail at close range last year using my 270 Win w/ 150 gr RN Hornady at 2400 fps. Wanted to get him his "own" gun this year so bought a Savage Model 11, blued metal, synthetic stock, w/ Simmons 3-9X scope at a very attractive price. I was very close to getting it in 260 Rem or 7X08, but already had dies, bullets, and brass for 308. I easily worked up a load using Blue Dot and Nosler 125 gr BT bullets at muzzle velocity of 2500 fps. According to recoil formula, should be about like a factory loaded 100 gr 243. He handles the gun well w/o problems. I earlier worked up a Blue Dot load in 257 Roberts (90 gr Sierra HP) for a friend to use w/ his 7 and 9 y/o grandsons on whitetail deer. I think you'll get the best results if you'll handload your son some loads using Blue Dot, slightly lighter bullet for caliber, and slightly reduced velocity. This will allow you to use a bigger diameter bullet than the 243, yet have recoil similar to the 243. Gary T.

You may not think there's much difference in recoil between the .243 and a 7x57, but a 9-yr old certainly will. When my son was 11 I moved him from my .220 Swift to a .243 and it was too much until I put some lead in the stock. By the way he killed deer every year from 8 years old to 11 with the Swift, deer never took a step, but i was there to back him up. I sure as hell wouldn't consider a .243 marginial and have him use a .25-35 though. Get him a .243, if nobody tells him different, he'll kill deer from now till he quits hunting. I wouldn't call it a marginal deer round, it's just killed too many deer and I don't see them running off either. I think most who malign the .243 haven't shot alot of deer with it , they just don't like it. It's a great cartridge to teach him to shoot, then move up to a 7x57 or .270 so he can shoot larger game as well.

Mark White--My grandson was on the small side. He played several different sports and was usually the smallest guy on the field. When he was 13 he was going to use my very first gun--a Win model 12 in 20 guage,on a dove hunt. He couldn't reach the forearm. My dad bought that shotgun for me when I was 11 and I could shoot it. My gunsmith/friend had a butt off a Win 97 shotgun that had been cut down. He gave this to me and I was able to make some modifications and get it on. They don't just swap. The next year we didnt go dove hunting and then all of a sudden my grandson got a growth spurt and finally has some height. No doubt the shotgun would fit him now with the original stock. I bought a Model 600 Rem in 6mm several years ago. My grandson was just starting to shoot and I swapped the 6mm for a .222 in Rem 600. I knew the day would come that I'd wish I still had the 6mm--that day is here. That small rifle was his favorite and he did get a deer with it, which brings me to my point. A few years prior to his shooting the doe with a .222,I had shot a yearling buck about the size of his doe. I was using a 30-06 and my shot was at a longer range. The yearling dropped instantly,but somehow got to his feet when I walked up. He staggered a few hundred yards before expiring. I was following along attempting to get a finishing shot but never did. That deer was hit exactly where I wanted to hit it and I still don't see how it got to it's feet and travelled---but it did. My gransons doe was about same size,hit about exact same spot with the .222 and it ran flat out less than 100 feet. Am I saying a .222 is a better deer rifle than a 30-06? Ofcourse not. I am saying you don't know until you pull the trigger. It's easy to think a bigger gun would have a different result. Who knows--had that doe shot with a .222 been shot with 30-06 might have not ran at all? Might have ran just as far?
You mentioned wanting a round he could go into Wal Mart and buy,but that you do reload. My son in law shoots a .243 as do I. One reason I started shooting .243 was in case one of us(him)forgot ammo. I reload for the both of us and keep him supplied with a Midway plastic box of 50. My grandson would either use my rifle or his dad's depending on who he was with,so I loaded him up a box that he carries in case someone forgets to bring ammo.

This thread is about .243,but it's also about youth going hunting. For starters,give them plenty of shooting practice. Make it fun. If they are shooting a gun that is too big---it aint fun. Kids do like to see something happen when they shoot. My grandson gets bored shooting paper targets. Shooting old golf balls is fun for him. Charcoal briquettes are also fun. When shooting air rifles,sometimes I use ice cubes.
We think of a huge set of antlers as a trophy. If the youth shoots a doe for example. Make them a trophy of some sort from it. They'll be just as proud of it as they would a huge set of antlers. Take the lower legs and the tail(with bone removed)and soak them in a mixture of 1 1/2 cups of 20Mule Team Borax(purchased from super market in detergent section)to a gallon of water. Mix this thoroughly and soak the parts 3 days or so. Then rinse real well. This mixture will prevent it from stinking. Place the legs in the mixture with the leg bent so that the hooves will be pointing up. They will dry in that posistion. You can then make a board you will mount them to and attach them to the board by screwing into the bone in the leg from the backside of the board with a lag bolt(not a leg bolt). This will make a hat rack,baseball bat rack,gun rack or whatever you want to make. The board can also be decorated with the tail. Polish the hooves with shoe polish. If the child does get a buck(even a spike),leave the hair on the skull when you saw them off. Remove as much flesh tissue,brain etc as possible and soak it the same way. DON'T soak the actual antler as it will discolor them. I use a coffee can and put just enough mixture in to cover the hair when the antlers are placed in the can. With the hair still on,the mount can be screwed to a board and the hair will hide the screws. You can also use this same mixture to treat a rattlesnake skin. When it dries,give it a coat of glycerin. Some people use anti-freeze,but it's actually the glycerin in the anti-freeze is being used.