Just thinking out load.

Looking at the new .25 WSSM and thinking about what one would be like in 6.5mm.

There are enough .223 or .243 burnt out WSSM's out here or soon will be.
What do you think one built on a 6.5 cal wouuld be like??

later
P

Been done, quite a lot actually. It works well. I however, won't be doing one just because I think the whole advantage 6.5's have over 25's is the heavier, longer, higher BC bullets. If you go that route with the 6.5 WSSM, you will be eating up boiler room to the point you may as well have the 25.

FWIW, I am planning on either a 30 or 35 WSSM later this year. Both of those diameters have bullets that will fit the mag but not intrude too badly on the powder space.

Gabe

My gunsmith Kevin Weaver is working up a
30 wssm. He is verey pleased with it/ He is getting near 305win velocity and awsome accuracy if you want to talk to him give him a call he's one of the best gunsmits out there.

Weaver Rifles

One of the local (Fairfax Va.) BR shooters has been shooting a 30WSSM and doing fairly well. I don't think he has determined if it is better than the 30BR for 100,200 and 300 yd score matches.

So the point of this cartridge is to do less than the 264 and 6.5x65? Yes I said 6.5x65 the old Metric 256 Newton (6.5-06) equivilant.

Chasing our tail again?

Hey Dr B, last year Kevin showed me a .25 caliber based on a 300 WSM case and was calling it a .25 Duster, looked like a screamer but the first thing I thought of was the same set up only in .264!

Snellstrom the 25 Duster, is a hot round close to the 257 wby in a short action. I whent with the .257 STW during barrel breakin kevin was geting 4000fps with a 100gr TSX with under .5 MOA. My brother took that rifle. I have a 28" .257cal Advanced Barrel System barrel ordered for the next one. I cant wait to shoot one of thoes CO elk next year with it. After the elk I'm going to try it on Bison.
DR B

I've shot about 1000 rounds through a couple of 25 WSSM and can't see where the 6.5 WSSM would offer any advantage. Yes, you could load heavier bullets, but how heavy/long a bullet could you load within the OAL limits and still have it function through the action and maximize the velocity potential? For a combination varmint and deer/antelope round, the 25 WSSM seem like a good choice.

All of the Winchester factory ammo that I have shot; 85 grain SBT, 110 grain AB, 115 grain SBT, and 120 grain OPE have all shot well in all the factory barreled 25 WSSMs that I've tried.

I believe the 25 WSSM necked up to 6.5 would work just fine and give you the option of using higher weight and higher ballistic coeficient bullets than the 257s can.

Since we are talking 3006 case capacities here, the 6.5 x 284 does just fine in short actions, and the 25 WSSM is a half inch shorter in length than the 284 case is. Higher volume more compact powders could also be used if magazine length impinges on powder capacity with long bullets, and you can have your barrel throated for the bullets you want to use, so I don't see the heavies restricting powder capacity all that much, not enough to make any difference that a deer or elk can detect...Rusty.

Well, I have thought about the same thing...

I don't care for the case in the 223 and 243 versions.. I have given some target work thoughts to the 25 WSSM, strictly rebarrling a Savage in 7 Mag...

But shooting a 6.5 bore a lot.. I think it would be fun to play with...With match bullets, I think it would do great....

People rant and rave about the 6.5 /284... I see it as just the same....

I have loaded up some dummy cases that were 25 WSSM to have 107, 120, and 142 Sierra Match bullets on them... actually look kinda cool...

Actually for a varmint or target rifle just to have something different than the other guys... I'd go with it...

PacNor chambers barrels for it...There will be one in my future...

It may not give me anything that I don't already have... but it would be an extra bit of fun playing with something new...

Plus I like that "reverent" status a wild cat gets by the unknowing rifle guys out there...

Being a handloader and having something someone can't buy ammo for at Walmart, actually gives me a sense of "bertha better than you"......

Single shot it in a bolt action magnum, and have yourself some fun...

actually it would add some flair to a case that I think is a looser otherwise....

cheers
seafire

Gidday Guys,

Sorry but I could never get into the short and fat thing in either cartridges or women.

I think that it is a girly thing, you know long and thin goes too far in, short and thick does the trick. Seems to really appeal to the girls so I wouldn't mind betting that a girl came up with these rounds.

Again the wheel (6.5-06 and 6.5/284) has once more been reinvented.

Happy Hunting

Hamish

Good analogy there Hamish!

I like that quote " I don't like the short and fat thing, in cartridges or women!"

cheers mate!

seafire

I agree with the person who mentioned chasing one's tail with this project. The Germans did it right the first time with the 6.5x57mm back in 1894, and every attempt since then in a smaller shell case has amounted to the same product. The 6.5-06 is the next best thing, and the .264 Winchester is just icing on the cake. A 6.5 WSSM would be interesting, but hardly any more earth shaking than say the .260 Remington. I still think the Germans did it right the first time, 112 years ago.
LLS

quote:

Originally posted by sierra2:
I still think the Germans did it right the first time, 112 years ago.
LLS

OK! roger

If I was limited to a single 6.5mm bore rifle, it would be a 256 Newton.

Jeff

I tend to agree with 260 Remguy! About the only way to make a WSSM in 6.5 work would be to use a Ruger #1 or something where the longer 120s etc could be seated out to effectively use the chamber are properly. If a guy is going to shoot a 100 gr 6.5 in the WSSM what is he gaining over the .25 100 gr? Little more bore life and , of course, the good game killing properties of the 6.5. But a well built .25 will work too. I have a 223 WSSM here just looking for a project barrel. Anyone want a cheap project platform?

Aloha, Mark

What kind of 223 WSSM?

What are you asking for it?

Jeff

why is it that when a new case comes out it just has to be wildcatted.....

The .264 bullets can currently be driven by the 250-300 case, 6.5 X 55 case, the 30-06 case, the 264 Mag case, the 284 win case and if ya want the 223 case.

Hey...it's your money and your time...have a ball.

IMO the only worthwhile new case to come down the pike in a long time is the RUM case (and the 404 Jeff folks will argue with me on this.) and then if it's shortened and stuffed with 358 and larger bullets.

The wssm case has merits I suppose but they're difficult to describe.....

quote:

Originally posted by sierra2:
I agree with the person who mentioned chasing one's tail with this project. The Germans did it right the first time with the 6.5x57mm back in 1894, and every attempt since then in a smaller shell case has amounted to the same product. The 6.5-06 is the next best thing, and the .264 Winchester is just icing on the cake. A 6.5 WSSM would be interesting, but hardly any more earth shaking than say the .260 Remington. I still think the Germans did it right the first time, 112 years ago.
LLS

Being a 6.5 bore fan, I have several versions in 6.5....

But after playing with a bunch of them, I built a target rifle in exactly that...

the 6.5 x 57.... and it is my favorite cartridge even over the 6.5 x 55...

and I love that it is older than the 30/30....

oh the rifle I put together?

Model 70 Pre 64 Style action, 28 inch PacNor chrome moly barrel in a heavy magnum contour...
Factory wood stock....

scope is usually a 3 x9 Leupold for hunting..

and a 5 x 15 Bushnell 3200 Series Elite... for long range shooting..

It's good for a guy that wants to do something with a short action rifle. Seat those long 140 gr class bullets right at the base of the neck and it still fits easily. Loaded 65K PSI like the thick case is designed for and it performs like the 6.5-284 and 6.5-06. All it takes is standard .25 WSSM dies and reaming out the case necks to .264, the necks are too thick for .25 cal anyway.

I've kicked around having a barrel made for a 300WSM CRF Savage with the center feed mag, it should feed perfectly. The only thing stopping me is I'd rather have a dedicated rifle instead of swapping barrels back and forth. Buying another WSM rifle for use as a donor is more expensive than a Stevens donor and going .260 instead.

Please explain how "All it takes is standard .25 WSSM dies and reaming out the case necks to .264, the necks are too thick for .25 cal anyway.".

How are you going to neck size a .264" case in a .257" die?

The necks of the .25 WSSM brass is thick, but it was designed that way. If you remove 0.007" of brass, you might have an unsafe case.

Which Browning or Winchester rifles will function as repeating rifles with 140 grain .264" bullets seated to the base of the neck? Have you tried it to insure that "it still fits easily"?

Jeff

Got me on the dies, I should have typed cases.

Reaming out the 25WSSM neck to .264 with no other case changes other than annealing the neck isn't my idea, it's what some 1000 yd shooters are already doing.

25WSSM neck thickness is .019. Ream it to .264 and it becomes .0155 which is the same as the 6.5-284 Norma brass because they both share a .295 neck diameter.

The 140s are between 1.36-1.38" long.
The 25WSSM base of the neck is 1.355"
1.355" and 1.38" minus the boatail equals a COL of less than 2.7".

Anything else?

Seafire,

I don't know if you ever seen one, but the Hall benchrest falling block action, nicely stocked, in a 6BR fast twist, 6.5 Grendel, or 260 would really make me happy (but since they quit making the >2k action, I guess it will never happen).

I had a friend years ago who owned a 22" MOA in a rifle/carbine set up, in 6.5 BR of all things. If you seen how well it shot, and how the trigger broke you would have drooled too. It LAID 100 btips on top of each other for 5 shots all day long. Handy rifle, great trigger/lock time, but fickle to load, etc, but as the saying goes, accurate rifles are interesting, and that one was.

If I had a 'mini' Ruger action, actually a Browning 1885 Low wall might about cut it, then the above gun would be nice. Browning missed the boat I think when they used either a 9 or 10 (believe it was 10) twist in the 260 1885.

The 243 I had shot 3/4 moa, my bud shot 2 out of 3 in .5" at 200 yards. But I do like a 6.5 over a 6, but can live with a 6 fast twist as I seen what my BR did to a deer at 400 yds with a 105 amax-amazing.

So if anyone out there knows where a Hall falling block action is cheap, holler! Another wish I woulda/shoulda....kept and rebarreled my 1885.....gorgeous wood too boot!

As an alternative, if Ruger would make a 6.5x55 or 260 in a #1A or RSI, I would throw in a Kepplinger trigger and be happy.

Isn't the WSSM brass thick/heavy because of the very high pressures that they are designed to operate at?

Will either the Browning or Winchester Super Short Actions handle a COAL of 2.70" and still function as a repeater? I thought that the SSM actions were intended for a COAL of 2.36".

Since I already have a number of 6.5s in 256 Newton, 260, 6.5x55, and 6.5-284, I don't think that could find a niche for a 6.5 WSSM that an existing trio of 25 WSSMs doesn't fill at least as well (or better).

Jeff

How about a 416/25WSSM? O! forget that, as it has most likey been done already. Somebody has to keep those chamber reame makers in business.

You also MIGHT press a 25 WSSM bushing die into service as a .264 die without modification. FWIW, Dutch.

Why? (Other than because you can).