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| One of Us |
So my brother-in-law borrowed one of my rifles for our So-Dak deer hunt this year. It is a Remington 700 in .260 Remington. I told him it probably wouldn't kill anything because the neck is too short, case length is too long, and the shoulder angle being 20 degrees is way too far from optimal. It does shoot 125 grain Partitions into tiny little clusters, so at least he could shoot a good group, I suppose as long as he didn't have to shoot a long distance (see issues above). He had a giant mule buck step out at 280 yards (lucky since the Leupold 3.5-10 doesn't have exposed turrets and zero stop) and he took the shot. Well, you guessed it, the buck did not drop on the spot. It walked a good 15 yards before finally falling. Imagine my surprise when he said he needed help dragging, and after only one shot. Two days later his son used the rifle on a decent 8 point whitetail. We were watching a draw full of does when he showed up. He ranged 368 and I advised against the shot. Surely this inefficient bastard of the 6.5 family would never pass a test like this. The buck stood facing and we were several degrees above him. He shot at the base of the neck and the fellow sprang and lunged backward, again of course not dead at the shot. We saw kicking and flailing in the tall grass. Unbelievably we found the deer, again with complete penetration. A dime sized entry at the top of the chest and a baseball sized exit at the point of the sternum. I have started to wonder if I actually NEED to switch over to the Creedmoor or maybe the 260 is OK? Could it be possible that even the old Swede still works? I am so confused. | ||
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I think you got lucky and got one of the improved 20.5 degree shoulder chambers by mistake. Remington does screw stuff up from time to time, but their cartridge design is usually not where they go wrong. | |||
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Dear God! Man! A 260rem killed something! TWICE. And it was a 700 as well! The bolt handle didn't fall off, I'm not sure I believe you........the extractor actually worked? Sure man....riiiiight.... All manufacturers screw up occasionally. | |||
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Those deer, while dead, would have been much happier to have been shot with the much sexier Creedmoor. How demeaning to have been shot with the boring ol' .260. And to even consider the Swede (one of my favorites)? Blasphemy!  _____________________ A successful man is one who earns more money than his wife can spend. | |||
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And no CRF ???????????????????? | |||
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I love it!! | |||
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Yeah, yeah, yeah . . . And I was abducted by aliens last week.  | |||
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BLASPHEMY...COMMUNIST LIES...GO FIND A ROPE...THE MAN IS OBVIOUSLY MAD...TAKE THE WOMEN AND CHILDREN INSIDE AND CLOSE THE BLINDS...WHAT'S THIS WORLD COMING TO????  ...CUT OFF HIS TONGUE FOR SPREADING SUCH FILTH.   Good Hunting    | |||
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The bullets must have been dipped in curare. . | |||
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Thank God! you only needed 1 shot because we know that feed system is unreliable. Mike Legistine actu quod scripsi? Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.  What I have learned on AR, since 2001: 1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken. 2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps. 3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges. 4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down. 5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine. 6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle. 7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions. 8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA. 9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not. 10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact. 11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores. 12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence. 13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances. | |||
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roger Old age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
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Plain and simple answer. Those deer were ignorant type that don't read the internet. | |||
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Ah, yes..Sarcasm....nature's antidote for Stupid....... Doug Wilhelmi NRA Life Member | |||
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Love your retelling. Thank you. However, I thought the inefficient bastard.264 caliber cartridge was the .264 Winchester Magnum? | |||
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It's good that neither of the deer had read any magazines about how nothing less than a 300 magnum would have been able to kill them. | |||
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Oh this couldn't have really happened, it must be "fake news". Roger ___________________________ I'm a trophy hunter - until something better comes along. *we band of 45-70ers* | |||
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Next thing you're going to claim is that the antiquated 6.5 X 55 is adequate for deer size game.  GOOGLE HOTLINK FIX FOR BLOCKED PHOTOBUCKET IMAGES https://chrome.google.com/webs...inkfix=1516144253810 | |||
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Heresy! Surely not a deer over 300 yards with a 260?! Surely you know you shouldn't attempt that shot with suck a little squirt gun. Now the 6.5 creed on the other hand, will get you to 1000 easily! Sorry, couldn't resist. Good to hear your results. Still haven't tried them 125 partitions in my 260, but it is high on my list to try! Were these loaded with the superformance powder? | |||
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Please excuse my cynicism in the above post. I am not at all against the Creedmor, just frustrated. Had a guy tell me the other week that he got his Creedmor for longer range stuff. His shorter range was under 100. Out of curiosity i asked him what his short range gun was, expecting something in the lines of 30/30. He said a 7mm mag!!! I didn't bother telling him he got his short range and long range gun switched around. Gotta wonder if anybody these days even looks at a ballistics chart! | |||
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If you had used a Creedmore, one shot would have killed both deer! | |||
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Mr. Yoder you are correct, my 125gr load is with Superform. It really is a great powder with the 120 to 130 grain bullets in that case. In the above rifle it gets me very close to 2900FPS and in my TI it goes just over 2800 with the same load. Luckily enough the same exact load and seat depth provide excellent accuracy in both rifles. The TI was set up with 130 Accubonds for this trip, but I never took it out of the case. I carried a .240Wby all week loaded with 90Gr. Sciroccos. My son carried a .243Win. pushing 85 grain Partitions. I won't even mention what we killed with our little 6MMs...nobody would believe it anyway. | |||
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This probably still works too:  | |||
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Ballistic chart? Never saw a 7 mag win a long range match, but the 6.5CM has won a few. | |||
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You’re damn lucky that those bucks weren’t 400 yards away. Everyone knows a 260 will kill within 300 yards. 368 is a stretch. Lucky. Very lucky. | |||
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Ballistic chart? Never saw a 7 mag win a long range match, but the 6.5CM has won a few.[/QUOTE] I said nothing about shooting a match. He is a hunter, not a long range shooter. I could have checked, but am pretty sure by long range he means 500 yards. I ran the numbers comparing the creed vs the 7mm mag. I did not cherry pick data to prove my point. I used Nosler data and reduced their top load by 3% to get reasonable velocities. I used 160 grain accubond out of the 7mm running at 2985 fps and a 142 grain accubond long range out of the creedmore running at 2650. Out at 500 yards the 7mm has a 172 fps advantage over the creed, a 411 lb energy advantage, and 12 inches less drop. I really don't care about what won long range matches, we are talking hunting here and at long range hunting distances, the creedmore has absolutely no ballistic advantage to the 7mm mag. I even ran the nimbers at 1000 just for giggles, and at that distance the mag still has a 46 fps velocity advantage, 132 lb energy advantage, and 56 inches less drop. Again FOR THE HUNTER to call the 7mm mag the short range gun and the 6.5 creed the long range gun shows some ignorance on the issue of ballistics. | |||
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Your post--Please excuse my cynicism in the above post. I am not at all against the Creedmor, just frustrated. Had a guy tell me the other week that he got his Creedmor for longer range stuff. His shorter range was under 100. Out of curiosity i asked him what his short range gun was, expecting something in the lines of 30/30. He said a 7mm mag!!! I didn't bother telling him he got his short range and long range gun switched around. Gotta wonder if anybody these days even looks at a ballistics chart! Where did you say he was a hunter? You're comparing oranges to apples. Also I don't care about 12" less drop, that does not make it an accurate round. I won't get into the 7mag 6.5CM argument on short and long range. Run the ballistics on my 22-284 with a 90 grain bullet. Is it fast and has a lot of retained speed and energy at 500 and a 1000? I run it at 3750. Yes, on paper it is unbelievable. | |||
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I apologize, I thought I had mentioned he was a hunter. I stand corrected. I am not trying to be argumentative here either, just makes me sick and tired of all i hear about King Creedmoor and how people believe it possesses magical qualities. I do also realize that paper does not tell the whole story, but I may just be weird enough to believe that you still need a certain amount of energy to kill an animal and in my opinion people are shooting the Creed at distances (talking hunting here) that they were not intended to shoot. And I do understand the weaknesses of the Creedmoor (ballistic wise) because I shoot a 260. And I will not shoot beyond 400 yards with that gun (at a deer) because I want at least 1800 fps for expansion. I also do not want to drop much below 1k lbs of energy. I ran my load over a chronograph, and understand a little about ballistics, and that is where my limit is with that gun. My biggest problem is that people do not want to use the Creedmoor within its limitations. | |||
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I currently have 3 6.5 cartridges. NONE have the word 'Creedmoor' stapled to them: 6.5x55 SE 264 Win Mag 256 Newton See no reason for another. I don't 'hate' the Creedmoor. I just realize that there are other cartridges that can do the job just as well. So, yes, I haven't consumed the Kool-aide. When a strong man armed keepeth his palace, his goods are in peace - Luke 11:21 Suppose you were an idiot... And suppose you were a member of Congress...But I repeat myself. - Mark Twain | |||
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My Personal limit in a hunting situation is 300 yds. It seems to me that you have 6.5 CM lovers or haters. I have one in an Eliseo Chassis. Haven't really worked with it yet and to be honest don't know what I will do with it. | |||
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I respect that. Please don't take what I said personally. I probably tend to be a bit reactionary towards the Creedmoor. It is refreshing to see someone who sees it for what it is. And were I a long range target shooter, I may change my tune. But I am a hunter pure and simple. | |||
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James, actually most of the long range shooters use different versions of the 6BR with 105-108 grain bullets. Bart Sauter set the 600 yd small group record this year. http://bulletin.accurateshoote...-group-at-600-yards/ His 6BRA is a 6BR Ackley. | |||
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Despite the sarcasm, I am not a Creed hater either. I do however find it hilarious that so many people consider it the holy grail when the 6.5 Swede has been around for ever, the 260 is literally the same exact thing with a different shoulder angle, and the 264 Win Mag provides a whole other dimension with barrel life most of these Creed worshippers will never test. To be honest my holy grail from a performance on deer perspective is the 6.5x284/6.5-06. I like the short action with the 260 so that has stuck with me. I am a recoil pussy, so the 7 mag is out for me. I just shoot the 260 better since I never worry about getting punched in the face regardless of shooting position, for that enjoyment I shoot a 300Wby (truly the ultimate LR killer). The big advantage to the short throw 6.5s in my opinion is quite simply shootability. More punch than the 6mms, better bullets than the 25s and in my opinion noticeably less recoil than even the .270Win. My beef is anyone saying the Creed is better than any other 6.5 in class. I think with like equipment and preparation 99% of all shooters couldn't tell the difference. Kudos to the advertising scribes I guess. | |||
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I WISH I had grown up hunting with the 260 Remington .It's one one of my favorite cartridges now . I am thinking about reversing time a little and having my old Ruger 77 243 tang safety made into a 260 rem .That will be an awesome little gun .I use 155-grain lapua mega tip bullets that kill beyond reason for their size .I.have three 260-Remington rifles now two savages and a ar10-.They are super accurate . It blows the 243 away in killing power .I can't believe it was not more popular the first time around ! | |||
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Never had a .260 or a Creedmore, nor have I shot either. About 20 years ago I convinced my brother in law to get a .260. Personally I have about half a dozen Swedish Mausers, 6.5x66 and four in 6.5 Grendel, which is probably my favorite. Way back when I started shooting centerfire, dad got me a 30-06 and that was all I had. JJK | |||
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So my son asked me, “dad are you sure my 260 is enough for elk?” “Yes” was the answer. Two years ago his first elk hunt and our return to my native hunting grounds in sw Colorado. Day one we found elk. Day two we hunted those elk. We set a nice intercept in tight cover and he dropped a nice big cow walking along with one shot. Complete penetration 140 Nosler partition. 60 75 yards. He still comments on his doubt from time to time with a humble smile. “Should not have doubted you dad.” "The liberty enjoyed by the people of these states of worshiping Almighty God agreeably to their conscience, is not only among the choicest of their blessings, but also of their rights." ~George Washington - 1789 | |||
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By golly it don't make much difference what size hole ya poke in the heart, brain, liver, or spine these days..or those days.. Ray Atkinson Atkinson Hunting Adventures 10 Ward Lane, Filer, Idaho, 83328 208-731-4120 rayatkinsonhunting@gmail.com | |||
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I am getting a 6.5 Creedmoor . . . . For my daughter.  Me . . . I just keep plugging with my Model 70 in 300 Weatherby Magnum. Yes with that completely unusable old cartridge that 987 different rounds are better than it today on the internet, and it still even has that belted case design and burns through both kegs of powder and barrels like they are match sticks. | |||
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It looks like I too, will be getting a 6.5CM for the brother-in-law. The selection of rifles is better. He loves the .260, but mine aren't for sale. Funny, I started with the 300 Roy when I bought my first rifle and have 3 now. It has been 2 years since I have hunted with one of them, but I filled my last Mule buck tag with a Ruger #1 and 165 grain Scirocco. Sure enough, even with the radiused shoulder and belt it managed. Still the best of all time. Like the Wby cartridges or not, Roy really opened the door. | |||
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I said nothing about shooting a match. He is a hunter, not a long range shooter. I could have checked, but am pretty sure by long range he means 500 yards. I ran the numbers comparing the creed vs the 7mm mag. I did not cherry pick data to prove my point. I used Nosler data and reduced their top load by 3% to get reasonable velocities. I used 160 grain accubond out of the 7mm running at 2985 fps and a 142 grain accubond long range out of the creedmore running at 2650. Out at 500 yards the 7mm has a 172 fps advantage over the creed, a 411 lb energy advantage, and 12 inches less drop. I really don't care about what won long range matches, we are talking hunting here and at long range hunting distances, the creedmore has absolutely no ballistic advantage to the 7mm mag. I even ran the nimbers at 1000 just for giggles, and at that distance the mag still has a 46 fps velocity advantage, 132 lb energy advantage, and 56 inches less drop. Again FOR THE HUNTER to call the 7mm mag the short range gun and the 6.5 creed the long range gun shows some ignorance on the issue of ballistics.[/QUOTE] Well stated! NRA Patron member | |||
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Louise DeVito set 1000 yard benchrest record with the 7mm/300 WBy. That Cartridge is a Kissing Cousin to the 7mm STW. The 6.5 Creed is a good deer killer best employed in 300 yards. No issue with anyone punching paper or gongs with it. But it is not ballistically superior to a 270 Win with equal low drag bullets. | |||
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