and fondled, and shot.



From top to bottom

Weatherby Accumark, 257 Weatherby

Cooper Model 52 Jackson Game Rifle, 25-06

Remington 700 CDL Limited 75th Anniv. 257 Roberts

Custom Sako L579, 257 Roberts

GWB

Very impressive. But the bolts are on the wrong side.

Here is mine. Kimber 257 Roberts.

Scott,
I have a love/hate relationship with Kimber. I think I've now owned 7 of their rifles and have three montana's on hand. The ones that shoot, I love, the ones that don't, I hate. I had originally thought about getting a bob in a Kimber. I think I must have got distracted. But the nice thing, all it takes is time and money (Ha).

My ignorance may be showing, but is that the classic select with the english walnut, or the Super America. Whatever it is, its a beautiful rifle. Looks like you've topped it with a 2.5 x 8 (my favorite) or is that a 3 x 9?
Best
GWB

quote:

Originally posted by Geedubya:
Scott,
I have a love/hate relationship with Kimber. I think I've now owned 7 of their rifles and have three montana's on hand. The ones that shoot, I love, the ones that don't, I hate. I had originally thought about getting a bob in a Kimber. I think I must have got distracted. But the nice thing, all it takes is time and money (Ha).

My ignorance may be showing, but is that the classic select with the english walnut, or the Super America. Whatever it is, its a beautiful rifle. Looks like you've topped it with a 2.5 x 8 (my favorite) or is that a 3 x 9?
Best
GWB

GWB. It's a Select with French Walnut and you're right about the scope, it's a 2.5x8. I can understand your love/hate with Kimber. This is the first one I've owned and it had to go back to Kimber because it would not shoot. They replaced that barrel and now it will shoot sub MOA with the right loads. Mine likes 100 NBTs the best so far. I'm about to try the 115 NBTs to see if I can get them to shoot. I've tried SST and 120 Gamekings. They weren't terrible but nowhere close to the 100 NBTs. Trying to find the heavier bullet that will give me sub MOA.

I have owned a lot of "quarter-bores". Most were before(or overlapped) the digital camera phase of today. The 25-06 Remington is the single, most useful chambering ever developed! Varmints to deer( and elk are deer too!!) it performs! My first "legal deer" was shot with a Ruger Ultralight in 257 Roberts. Since that time, there have been many deer to succumb to 117 grain Sierra SBT's from some sort of "quarter-bore". I wore out the bore on a Remington 25-06 ADL wood stock from excessive shooting/poor cleaning technique. I have owned at least 7 Senderos in 25-06 and a few more .257 Roberts during that time frame. I had the first "Stevens 200" to hit VA chambered in 25-06. During barrel break-in, it produced a .117" group shooting 50 grains of VARGET and the 75 grain VMAXS. There is another 25-06 built on an ADL action I can think of(Shilen barrel) that was a 1/2(and still is) MOA gun at 600 yards.............I sold that one to a young friend(member name here is "Ruck") and it still performs. I don't have a lot of pics but I have a lot of memories of "quarter-bores". Long live the 25-06, 257 Roberts and the 250-3000!! GHD

quote:

Originally posted by Geedubya:
and fondled, and shot.



From top to bottom

Weatherby Accumark, 257 Weatherby

Cooper Model 52 Jackson Game Rifle, 25-06

Remington 700 CDL Limited 75th Anniv. 257 Roberts

Custom Sako L579, 257 Roberts

GWB

That Sako is awesome!

quote:

I have owned at least 7 Senderos in 25-06 and a few more .257 Roberts during that time frame.

GHD, Any chance you shot some Barnes 100 grain TSXs in one of those beasts??? Mine is just fine with VMaxs, but I really wanted it to use either the Barnes 80 TTSX ot the Barnes 100 TSX I can't sort out the OAL. The best I can get out of the gun with the Barnes is 1 1/2 to 2 inch groups.

You need to add a 25 wssm One of the best quarter bores.

Buliwyf,

I get an honest 3,650 fps with 100 gr partitions out of my 257 weatherby. It flat works.
I owned a winchester model 70 coyote in the heavy barrelled laminate version. It was the 243 WSSM chambering. No offense but I was not impressed with the rifle nor the chambering. Perhaps in a single shot such as a cooper or a number 1 or even a repeater with a follower it would probably be better. I found that one really had to be careful to screw down the decapping die and full length resize in order to get the brass to chamber after it had been reloaded. More than likely I'll not own another WSSM.
GWB

Geedubya,
If I read correctly, the 257 Roberts is considered a short action caliber. If a guy has one made up, what action length do you recommend?

Cliff,

My wife and kids get mad at me all the time because they ask a question that they perceive should have a yes or no answer and I go for about 5 minutes. With that in mind, and since you asked…..

I am not a purist, a ballistician, an engineer, a gunsmith or a guncrank. I’m a rifle looney.
I don’t have rifles built. I buy new and used rifles both factory and custom as they strike my fancy. I sold a 257 roberts in 77 hawkeye a month ago and picked up a 257 bob yesterday in a ruger #1. That will give me three at present, in my possession.

I often say I’m one rifle away from being satisfied. However that is not the human condition, much less that of a rifle looney. You’ll never have the perfect rifle and you’ll never be satisfied. But don’t worry too much. There are lots of rifles out there, and if you have the time and money, you’ll buy more and sell some that you wish you hadn’t.

I would say do what turns your crank. SAAMI overall max cartridge length for the 257 bob is 2.780. That is a short action cartridge length, if I’m not mistaken. I typically load 100 gr. partitions and 100 gr. accubonds between 2.780 and 2.8 oal’s. I don’t load VLD’s and I don’t try to max out the bob. Its a nice mild mannered round. I see no need to try to push the limits. However, you can use Hodgdon 100V and get an extra 100 fps or so, but depending on your rifle you may sacrifice some accuracy. So that being the case(no pun intended) you can build your bob on a short action.

Some say short actions are more accurate than long actions. I don’t know. Chances are you are not building a bench rest gun for competition using the bob. Chances are you’re not building a 1,000 yard shooter either, using the bob. Most likely it will be a rifle with a 22 to 24 inch medium weight sporter or walking rifle. If it shoots an inch or better (and most factory rifles will do that today with a minimum amount of tweaking) off the bench, you can hit deer, hogs or coyotes or most anything you want out to 300 yds. How many times do you shoot game out that far.

Or you can do a single shot, ie: a low/high wall, a ruger # 1, or a repeater with a follower. Then you can stretch that dude as long as you want.
Its your call.
Best to you and yours during this holiday season and in the new year.
GWB

quote:

Originally posted by Cliff Lyle:
Geedubya,
If I read correctly, the 257 Roberts is considered a short action caliber. If a guy has one made up, what action length do you recommend?

Cliff,
257 rifles are made on both long and short actions. Remington and Browning have used short actions to build 257 Roberts rifles. Ruger uses long action receivers on their M77 MkII and Hawkeye rifles. If you use a short action for a 257 Roberts rifle, you will most likely have to deep seat heavier bullets down into the cast to maintain OAL that will fit into the magazine. If you use a long action receiver, then you are free to seat the bullets out farther and have more case capacity. It also means that there is no magazine length constraint if you want to seat the bullets out near the lands of the barrels rifling.

On my Browning BBR, I find that with many bullets I can't seat the bullets out to the lands or even very near the lands because of the need to keep the OAL at about 2.820" so that the rounds will fit in the mag.

I like the 1/4 bores too....so far I've owned one .25-20, three .257 Roberts, three .25-06 and two .257 weatherbys.

My favorite is a post 64 M-70 .257 Roberts featherweight.....a real fine rifle!

This caliber is nearly as good as the .264 calibers for all around hunting of varmints and medium game. They sure do deer and pronghorns nicely.

Mort,
Enlighten me please, what bullet do you shoot that requires a 2.820 oal length in the 257 bob or that would restrict you from loading max loads based on popular reloading manuals and requisite powders.
Also, what production rifles do you shoot where the difference in .020 OAL makes a significant difference in your groups at say 200 yds. From my experience in most commercial chambers the bullets will not remain in the case when seated out to kiss the lands, and that velocity suffers when one seats them that long.
GWB

I looked through my 2009 Hogdgen update and found the OAL is at 2.8" or less. The heaviest bullet I will use will be 117 gr. But I remember previous discussions about the 257 on long actions. This is what prompted my question.

quote:

Originally posted by Geedubya:
Buliwyf,

I get an honest 3,650 fps with 100 gr partitions out of my 257 weatherby. It flat works.
I owned a winchester model 70 coyote in the heavy barrelled laminate version. It was the 243 WSSM chambering. No offense but I was not impressed with the rifle nor the chambering. Perhaps in a single shot such as a cooper or a number 1 or even a repeater with a follower it would probably be better. I found that one really had to be careful to screw down the decapping die and full length resize in order to get the brass to chamber after it had been reloaded. More than likely I'll not own another WSSM.
GWB

Sorry about your bad experience. I have been shooting a Coyote chambered 25 wssm for the last few years and it has become one of my favorite rifles. I partial neck size and anneal every couple of reloads and have no problems.

Buliwyf,
There is a lot to be said for satisfaction and happiness.

If I were to run into a cooper, say a montana varminter, chambered in the 25wssm for a reasonable price, I'd probably scoop it up in a heartbeat.

GWB

Agreed. I'll pass on the cooper however.

My M70 Featherweight 25 wssm is a shear joy to backpack with. My Coyote is just what I was looking for as a target/varmint/deer rifle.

Long live all the quarter-bores!

Buliwyf,
I feel the same way about my Kimber Montanas. I have those in 260 rem, 308, and 325 wsm. They are a joy.

I understand some folks reticence to buy Cooper rifles. My position, which I will not go into complete detail here is basically this. I have been buying used Coopers from individuals for years, well before Dan Cooper blew it with his endorsement (which as an american citizen he is entitled to do). If I'm buying used from other gun owners, I am not contributing to his livelihood. Maybe that is splitting hairs, but that is my position. I don't know that DC's political contributions have contributed directly or indirectly to the deaths of american citizens, but Saudis, Chineese, Germans, Austrians, Italians, Koreans and Japaneese have. It's hard to be a consumer and not buy products manufactured or produced in those countries. Where do you draw the line. I know where I do. Buying used from another American citizen/gun owner does not violate my sense of ethics or morals. Just my $.02.
GWB

I have a Ruger m77 in 257 Roberts, it's long action, thankfully. These are loaded too long for a short action.



Hornady custom factory loads with the same bullet are loaded to 2.780" oal, and are just as accurate in this rifle, but slower than my loads.

I think the short action rifles have more to do with why the Bob is being factory loaded with a 117 round nose soft points (Rem and Win factory loads) than the old excuse of it being chambered in weak rebarrelled surplus actions. RN bullets take up that much less mag space compared to spire point bullets.

I have no issues with my short action Bob. It will shoot 100gr bullets at 3,000 fps and 115-117 at 2,800 fps. It's as much velocity as I need to shoot deer size game out to 300 yards. I don't see the need to seat the bullets out farther to squeeze a few more fps.

quote:

Originally posted by Geedubya:
Mort,
Enlighten me please, what bullet do you shoot that requires a 2.820 oal length in the 257 bob or that would restrict you from loading max loads based on popular reloading manuals and requisite powders.
Also, what production rifles do you shoot where the difference in .020 OAL makes a significant difference in your groups at say 200 yds. From my experience in most commercial chambers the bullets will not remain in the case when seated out to kiss the lands, and that velocity suffers when one seats them that long.

GWB

GW,
Here are some of my max chamber lengths (bullet kissing the rifling) with the short action BBR rifle and given bullets that I have measured.

Hornady 100gr. SP 2.889"
Speer 100gr BTSP 2.859"
Sierra 117gr. SP 2.836"
Nosler 100gr. BT 2.908"
Nosler 100gr. Part 2.928"

All of these could be restricted by the max. magazine OAL of 2.820"

My favorite load for my Ruger M77 MkII RL is a Hornady 100gr. SP with an OAL of 2.850" which still leaves a full bullet diameter worth of projectile in the neck of the case. In the Ruger the sweet spot seems to be about .020" from the lands with the bullets I have worked up loads for. These loads for the Ruger will not fit in the Browning BBR except as a hand fed single shot. That load does shoot well in the BBR though!

If you can find it I would suggest that you check out an article in American Rifleman called "The .257 Roberts" by Finn Aagaard. (August 1987) Aagaard suggests long seating the Roberts chambers and then seating the bullets out to as long as 3.115" (with the old Nosler Square Base) The idea as I look at it is basically to inch up the case capacity towards that of an .257 Ackley Improved.

While I have no inclination to machine the chambers of my rifles so I can seat the bullets that far out, I like to be able to seat the Roberts bullets out close to the lands if I want.

BTW with the .257 Roberts case Hornady recommends their 120gr. HP bullets are seated to 2.780" in deference to some of the short action rifles. Hornady recommends that the .257 AI with the Hornady 120gr. HP be seated out to 2.940" In fact all of Hornady's published loads specify the OAL of AI loads be seated to longer than their conventional .257 Roberts brethren. Depending on who you ask the 257 AI is the same length case to .003" shorter than the .257 Roberts so it doesn't seem to me that you are going to run out of neck if you are long seating the Roberts bullets out near the lands.

Your mileage may vary but this is what works for me!

One thing you'll find about me, there are very few things I'm dogmatic about. If you want to roll em long and shoot em fast, more power to ya'. Its not my job to criticize or say you're right or wrong. One of the caps I wear is inscribed JAFO (just another friggin' observer) and I wear it well. The original question was what did I recommend, my retort was whatever turns your crank. It can be long or short,but it doesn't have to be one or the other.
Best to all y'all.
GWB

GW,
I was not offended nor did I think you were being dogmatic.

I don't necessarily load for speed, although I do like the flatter trajectories that speed brings. I mainly chase accuracy in my loads and have found that .020" off the lands in my rifles works very well as long as you can keep a calibers worth of bullet in the neck. This is my starting seating depth when working up loads for a new rifle or using a new bullet. After I find a powder and charge combination that works well, I will check deeper and (if possible) shallower seating depths to find a sweet spot.

I can get a little frustrated when a bullet and case length combination won't let me get to .020" off the lands or when a magazine length won't let me get to .020" on the barrel of that same rifle. If I am loading for a short magazine I would prefer a short enough chamber so that I can optimize the OAL dimension. If one is custom building a rifle then a good builder can often adjust the lands to match your particular bullet of choice in a length that still fits in the magazine.

The Roberts can be made on the short action or the long action. The short action can be made a little lighter than a long action although Ruger does make a pretty light long action "Bob". On the other hand you may sacrifice some flexibility in making your own loads with a short action. Personally I like long action Roberts rifles since the case is about .020" longer than the other short action calibers; .308, 7-08, .260 Rem, .243 Win. etc.

Mort
10/4.
I can relate to your signature line.
Best
GWB

Back in the 70's, I was looking through a Speer #8 manual when I found data on the .257 Ackley Improved(very much improved) their test rifle had a 22" barrel and reportedly shot a 100gr.bullet @ 3,410, That started the wheels turning.
Several months later while working in a gun shop we took a 700 Remington in on trade, this rifle was chambered in 25/06 and most of us would have left it as was, but thinking out of the box I decidid to rebarrel it to .257AI and to leave the barrel as long as possible((27.5"), the results were much better than expected. 3,607 with a 100gr. Speer spitzer with 57gr of Norma MRP in Winchester cases.
So as whats the point of the 25 wussum when it's already been invented???

Stepchild 2
Not too shabby, I only get +/- 3,650 fps with 73 gr. of IMR7828 over 100 gr partitions out of my 257 roy.
GWB

Dave-T
Looks like you have a pretty good shooter there! If all Rugers shot like that out of the box I probably wouldn't buy another brand ever.

I'm into Quarterbores too.
I have four rifles in standard 257 Roberts, two in standard 250-3000, another in 250AI, and a 25-06.
Lots of good bullets available, and many of them shoot.

I have 3 250-3000, Savage 99, Savage Model 20 and a Stevens 200 (rebarreled). I used to have a couple of 257R's but people offerred me too much to refuse and they didn't do anything more than the 250's.

My latest Quarter bore a 25-204Ruger 100gr NPT's at 2800fps, A picture of it and the results of it's first hunt.

I notice that 100gr Sierra soft-point, 100gr Speer bt, and 100gr Nosler partition are all seated longer than 2.80" in my factory M722 chamber. That's a lot longer than the factory magazine. I haven't even bothered to seat the bullets back to fit in the mag. I think it should be as close to the rifling as possible, depending on what the rifle wants, of course. If I want a short action, I'll use an appropriate cartridge, in this case a .250 AI. It has the capacity of Bob, and moves the bullet back to fit the mag. I use a wildcat that has a 2" case, and the neck-length of Bob. It shoots right alongside Bob, all day.
My M722 shoots like a house afire, but is a single shot.
I came up with an idea....can I pull the barrel and install it on an M721? If anyone knows the answer, I'd like to also.
The action would be used for another project, or....we can talk.
Love those .25's!
Have fun,
Gene