several articles in gun magazines say the 100 gr. load in the .243 is marginal for deer and the 100 gr. load in the 250 or the 257 roberts is a great deer load. i do not understand what the difference is. any comments or thoughts would be appreciated, thanks. i havn't had a chance to hunt yet but have a 243 krico single shot rifle.

The 25's are .012-.013" bigger. Seriously, between the 243 and the 250 there really isn't much differance, as long as we stay with 100 gr bullets. The 25's advantage is the use of heavier bullets at the same speeds that the 243 can throw 100's. - dan

The .243 will down a deer as quickly as a .338 Winchester.

It is true that the current factory loaded .243's are woefully underloaded, with the 100 grain bullet averaging in the 2700-2800 fps range out of a 22" barrel. It's no trick to push a 100 grainer to 3100 fps, which makes a significant difference in the bullet upset, wound channel, and apparent terminal effect.

There's no appreciable difference in a .257" vs. a .243" 100 grain bullet striking a deer at the same velocity.

My understanding in todays world is to make a good living writing for sporting rags you have to keep writing as many articles as you can,the more you write the more you make.One month the 243 is worthless,the next its the most accurate deadly caliber in the last 50 years.My son shoots a 243,9 one shot kills in 10 years,all clean,quick,good shots.5 dropped in their tracks 4 went less than 50 yards.I shoot a 250 Savage,results are about the same.Both do a fine job-30 years combined experiance with us,chances are the writers you readind spent an afternoon on the range with a free gun supplied by a gun manufacturer...either are a good rifle w/100 grain bullet.

What I really enjoy are the hacks who write one article, then rearrange the paragraphs a little, and sell it over a period of several months to a number of gun rags...... It's so much easier to do this with a word-processing program!!

Based on 50 deer with 243 (actualy a slow 6mm rem) and 90gr and well over a 100 deer with the 6.5x55 and 100gr I think the 243 kills significantly better.

i appreciate all of your answers, i will spend the money on buying a scope for the krico instead of buying another rifle.

Saline - wise decision. I have both calibres and so far no Springbok has ever lived long enough to tell me which was the better calibre. I prefer the 250 Savage - just had it longer and we talk to each other when things are quiet.

good hunts to you - edi

I agree with Stonecreek.
I load my .243 Win FWT with 100 gr bullets at 3150 fps. It is a great killer on deer size game.

Jerry

I always got the impression that the 250 Savage killed deer much better than the .243 which never really impressed me at all in the killing dept....

I have used both a good deal both here and in Africa...actually I always thought the 22-250 performed better than the 243...I'm not much of a 243 fan as you can see, but I got that way from using it. Others love the 243 and it seems to work for them, I guess.

Brad,
A load that will give 3050fps/22in. barrel in a 243 is:
100gr bullet-43grs. of IMR4350. This is a stiff but safe load in 5 or 6 243s I've shot it in.

Ray, I've only killed about 15 deer/antelope with a 243/6mm but I have shot a bunch of coyotes with them, also with the 22/250. While a 22/250 is more then enough for coyotes, a hit behind the diaphram and I'll often get a runner. Not so with a 243/6mm. A solid body hit just about anywhere and you've got your self a dog.
Call em in close____Pete

A also load 4350 powder with 100 grain bullets but have never gone beyond 42 grains. My rifle has shot lots of .375" groups at 100yrds with Nosler partitions and killed deer and antelope with nothing but one-shot kills.

In Oregon .243 cal is legal for elk, and the 22 center fires are legal for deer. I used to hunt alot with a guy that packed a 243 Win. He claimed 19 deer with 20 shots. It was always a shoulder shot with 100 grain factory corelocks. I watched a couple of his bucks slam to the ground. I personally like a bullet/caliber that can drive at steep angles. The 6.5mm's do a great job of hitting hard and driving deep. 243's work fine. I've made a few bucks do cartwheels with the old rusty 30-30. My business partner absolutely hates 243's, but that's him. If your hunting in a legal state and punch a bull with a broadside rib shot you'll get it. But I don't want to try it.

Brad,
Forgive me for not answering sooner. I lost the thread.

My load for the .243 is 45 gr IMR 4350. That has to be a hot load, but I have never had a problem in over 30 years of use.
I have gone to 46 gr 4350 for 3260 fps. I did not get hard bolt lift or signs of excessive pressure, but that had to be a very hot load. I decided that 45 grains did all I needed in the .243.

Most rifles will not handle the loads above. I started at 41 grains many years ago and worked up. I don't recommend my loads, as they are over pressure for many rifles.

Jerry

Let me claify, I have no problems with the 243, it is just that I think the 250 Savage, regardless of paper balistics, just kills considerably better than the 243 Win. or so it has appeared to me, and I have used them both a good deal on deer and a few elk...I shot a lot of elk with the 250 early on. a few with the 243..but in either case one should keep to broadside shots only. That said I did see Philip Price, RSA PH, shoot a shot Eland going away and that little 100 gr. Corelokt went to his brisket and was recovered perfectly expanded..I was amazed.

A .243 WCF load of 45 grains of IMR 4350 behind a 100 grain bullet! You must have a long throated rifle, seating a flatbase 100 grain way out and filling the case, slowly, via a drop tube? And pressure is not excessive? What is case life like?
40 years of handloading has taught me to be cautiously skeptical on a lot of things-this load borders on the unbelieveable.....as does the chrono'd velocity in a 22" barrel.......

Hi Bob,
I too am often skeptical at some of the velocities I see posted. However, I bought the rifle, a M70 FWT, in 1957 so I have been reloading a few years also.

I do load my bullets out as far as possible, although I have never gone to the trouble to measure how far off the lands the bullet is seated, etc. It has a regular length action, so doesn't suffer from the short action problem which requires deep bullet seating. I bought my son a Rem 660 6MM Rem back in 1971, and the combination of the short barrel and short magazine made me work hard to find a load that would reach 3000 fps with a 100 gr bullet.
The load of 45 gr 4350 was not as far out until the current crop of reloading manuals came out.

Anyway, it is of no consequence to me who believes either way. I don't recommend those loads at all, but they have been chronographed through three different chronographs through the years.

Jerry

Not trying to pick a fight but that 45grs. of IMR 4550/100gr. bullet will lock up most bolts. Your rifle either has an oversize bore or a well worn throat. Another thing, pre64 243s have short action parts (magizne block & short follower) and unless you have replaced them you have ineffect a short action.
I once had an AI 243 and shot 46grs. of IMR4350/100gr. bullet for 3240fps out of a 23in. barrel. My cases(primer pockets) lasted no more then 4 reloads. The bolt had not one bit of hard lift and the sporter weight barrel shot like a benchrest rifle. Pete

Pete,
I have used that load from "new." I understand about the magazine etc, but it will take longer oal than the Rem in the 6mm.

I assume that on this forum people understand handloading, and that there is a necessity to start low and work up. If they do not then they should not be reloading.

Some of my friends who have 243s have trouble getting much over 3000 fps.

Back in '79 I chronographed a friends M700 .243 and his would also take the 45 grain load, and the chrono registered 3236. We settled on the 44 gr load at 3160. I agree that they are hot loads. My cases last more than 5 reloads, but I don't right now know how many. I don't really worry about case life. I get the accuracy and velocity I want and just use the rifle. As I have said, I started reloading in 1957 and have loaded thousands of rounds from New Mexico to Alaska. I have experienced a few leaking primers through the years, and just reduce the load. I use slow burning powders.

FWIW, I had some leaking primers a few years ago with a 300Wby and ammunition that had been loaded over 10 years in cases which were not new. The problem was the "welding" of the bullet in the neck as a result of the residue. I set my seating die just enough deeper to "pop" the bullets and that solved the problem. I used the ammunition and killed a 6x6 elk.

Please understand that there is no advantage to me whether you believe or do not believe. It doesn't matter. I just entered into the conversation and stated my own experience and results.

With the loads I use, the .250 Savage is not in the same league as my .243. I have never had but one deer or antelope move out of its tracks. That one was shot with a Nosler 100 grain bullet. It only moved a few steps. I decided I was better off with a standard bullet and have used the 100 grain Sierra and Hornadys since. I use several rifles, and the .270 is my favorite, and so have only taken about a dozen animals with the .243.

Anyway, have a good day, and I think I will stop with this. Each is free to use what he will and believe as he will.

Jerry

Jerry,
With the loads I use the 250 is certainly in the league with a .243 plus the fact I can get 2700 with a 120 gr. bullet or 2800 with a 115 gr.

I'll take the 250 Sav. or 257 Roberts any day over any 6MM, a caliber I am not fond of, and got that way from observation and use of it, mostly in culling operations in RSA.

I have seen 4 deer killed with 85 grain Barnes X and 1 95 grain Barnes X bullets in a .243 at ranges from 40 - 190 yards.These were from a Ruger compact that has only a 16.5" barrel.All 5 dropped where they were standing.Who needs a 100 grain bullet?

So the 257 Roberts is ok, but not the 243? What a pile of horse pucky. That is probably why I stopped reading the magazines years ago.

The 6mm is a necked down 257 Roberts. I have never heard any one argue that the 6mm is adequate for a job and the 243 is not. If you hand load, you can get a 100 fps or so more out of the 6mm. That is not going to make a shred of difference on game.

When the 6mm and 243 came out, writers claimed they were the ultimate North American game cartridges. The only claim not made in the rags was that they were good on grizzly. But all the way up to moose, they were the ticket. Now, they can't kill mice?

If the 30-30 can take deer, so can the majority of cartridges available.

Pete

I don't think anyone here will argue that th .243 will not kill deer. I have killed a truck load with one that was the only rifle I had access to. But sooner, rather than later you make a good shot with the .243 and the deer will still run several hundred yards leaving no blood trail. It happened twice to me. The deer were dead on their feet, their lungs and heart being destroyed. The bullets blew up in the chest cavity and failed to exit. Since I started using a .308 and 150 or 165 grain bullets I have never had one fail to exit.

thanks for all the replies; it seems rhat with so many varibles, deer size, distance, bullet, placement you have a smaller performance envelope to work with, and a larger caliber and heavier bullet gives you a larger envelope. in the near future may try to rebarrel to 7-08. i want to work with the barnes X bullet, indications are that it would increase the envelope to maximum. paul

45 grains with IMR 4350 and the 100's, I'm with Pedro from Idaho on this one-I'd be for stepping back and bringing a rubber handle to open the bolt! Of course there are exceptions to every rule but I'd not try that one on a bet. And I am not saying it doesn't work for you, I am just saying this is not normal.

As for saying that the 250 or the 243 is a better deer rifle that to me is like saying that there is a difference between taking deer with a 270 or a 280. To each his own, but it's this one boys thought that take the rifle that "you can talk with" be it a 250 or a 243. I'm with Brad I do like that one and I can relate as well.

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dog

Hey guys, I'll not be around for awhile to straighten you out. More surgery & chemo. The doc says he's getting tired of seeing me and that he'll get it right this time. Actually, I am feeling pretty good. This morning I'am going ground squirrel shooting one last time before_____. I've got a favorite pair of L46 Sakos, one in 17Rem. and the other in 222 that I'am taking.
Call em in close____Pete

Pete, best wishes for what you'll be going through. I'll say a prayer for your situation.

Pete I am heading to the hill today for 3 days of bear calling and yote calling-you'll be in my thoughts when I hit my knees at night-take care amigo

Vaya Con Dios

Dog

I honestly hope I don't re-ignite another firestorm, but I have to add something that I was missed so far:

Whatever the terminal merits of these two cartridges, the 243 is going to burn its barrel much faster. If the life of your rifle is any concern at all you're better off with a 250 Savage.

I do a lot of shooting at the range so I can't afford the hottest thing available. For me the debate right now is between 250 Sav and 257 Rob. I'm trying to determine just how hard the 257 Rob is on barrels. I don't expect it'll be a problem, but if it is I'll get teh 250 Sav.

Differences exist between .243 and 250 Sav & 257 Robt. In my view the difference is very small in kill power as some of you mentioned that you have developed hot loads to level the play fields. What really important is placement of the bullet. However, 250 Sav and 257 Robt do have heavier bullets.

The differences that standout in my mind is the barrel life and availability of rifles for selection.

It is a well-known fact that .243 and 25-06 have shorter barrel life – 800 to 1500 rounds. It is important that one NOT let the barrel get too hot. Hot loads with high pressure will also shorten the barrel life and/or bolt assemblies.

For rifle selection, the .243 will do significantly better than the other two. Most firearm manufacturers carry .243 in their small/medium hunting models. With the number of .243s in use they will be around for a long time. On the other hand, it is hard if at all possible, to find a new rifle in 250 Sav and 257 Robt anywhere. This factor wouldn’t come into play if you already have the caliber or considering to re-barrel on an existing rifle.

Availability of ammo can also be a consideration. Have you ever run out of ammo on a hunter trip? The .243 owners would have less to worry about for sure.

My $0.02. Cheers!

Danny Boy

Older thread but while a lot of guys were arguing about how much 4350 was safe in a 243,
has any tried H 414?

H 414 is very close to the performance arena as 4350, but it is a flake style powder ( like W 748). It and W 760 are designed to be close to 4350s burn rate.

My loads is my 243 are with 44 grains of H414. I use this with 95 grain Ballistic Tips and Partitions, and 105 grain Speers. Velocity is in the 3250 range. No extraction problems, but the load is hot, since that I know you will have extraction problems with 44.4 grains.

The gentleman from Tennessee that mentioned the Barnes 85 grain X Bullets, has a good point. If you are into velocity, you can get higher than 3400 fps with the XLC coated 85 grainer. It is an impressive bullet. If a 243 had to be used for Elk, or one had to do max damage and a 243 is all you got, It would be my bullet of choice.

I have seen what this load does to a 6 inch thick piece of wood, and can't imagine any deer or elk surviving a wellplaced shot with that load. It made the bark on the tree peel llike a banana peel, 10 to 12 inches each side of the point of impact. Exit hole on the backside of the wood was nothing but toothpicks on an area bigger than the palm of my hand.

Not bad for a PISSY little 243.

I suppose it comes down to how you feel about the trade-off between section density and frontal area. I myself lean a bit towards towards the former. Heavy for caliber bullets usually minimize meat damage, leave two holes, and tend to stand up better to those raking or brushy shots. Thus, if 100 grainers are the rule, I guess I'd opt for the 243. However, I've had and hunted with both rifles - I've sold all my 243s (and they were ALL stunningly accurate). The 250-3000 with 115, 117, and 120 grain bullets at 2700-2800 fps (24" barrel) is perhaps my favorite medium range whitetail load. Well, maybe I have a soft spot for a modestly loaded 6.5x57 too...

Mike

9.3 x 62:

Mike: I thought your post was totally stupid, until I read that you have a soft spot for a 6.5 x 57. Then that made me think how intelligent and astute you must me!!!

Just kidding, on the first and serious on the second. We 6.5 x 57 fans are a small crowd, but I love it. It is a 257 Roberts that I can get 160 grain bullets for is my opinion.

I shoot a lot of 243 and I use to believe all of the hype that it was nothing but a great tool for wounding deer. I bought one with awsome wood on it, that was being closed out for cheap.

I planned on it being my first rifle to rebarrel to something else. However just before deer season, I was carrying it, just to see if all the wives tails were true. Picked up a box of ammo for $10.00. Was looking to shoot it at a small deer only, and had my 30/06 in the truck if the morning did not pan out anyway.

Well a bigger deer appeared and before I could remember I had " too small" a gun to take it, the shot at 150 yds or so and down he went.
so much for all the wives tales. Needless to say it did not get rebarreled.

and for all the guys who were on the 300 Win Mag for Deer thread and were attacking me for saying I thought it was not necessary for deer; the previous season, the only time I had a round fail was with a 300 Win mag, and shot a big buck at 100 yds, with a 200 grain Sierra ( federal factory load). The buck went down, got up and ran into the swamp, as the sun was dropping like a brick as it does in Northern Minnesota that time of year. There was blood and fur all over the place. Sierra told me that the bullet probably did not ever get the chance to open before it passed thru the deer. Their 200 grain is a hard bullet and was really intended for larger game. That buck was a 6 pointer ( each side) and from experience of other deer taken, had to weigh almost 300 pounds.

MY 6.5 mm's have never let me down on anything they have taken so far. Have not taken an elk with one yet, but I have hauled it out elk hunting several times. and will continue to do so until it either fails to down one, or does prove the mag crowd wrong and does down one.
Time will tell.

saline
I have killed several deer with a 243. My wife has killed a BIG bunch of deer, including a big bodied mule deer and several antelope out to 350 yards without a single problem. We always used either a 100gr. Sierra or a 95gr. Nosler Partition.

seafire:
Yes, indeed, not too many 6.5x57 fans this side of the prime meridian. Love the 264 bore, 284 bore, and 366 bore - the posterchildren for heavy for diameter bullet selection, especially for those like me who have never been so moved to own a single magnum, belted or otherwise. My 7x57 or 284 has never disappointed me, I can't really justify extra weight, muzzle blast, recoil, powder consumption, and barrel wear. The same goes for any of the lesser 6.5s I own or have owned. And the 9.3x62 has plenty of oompa-loompa for anything I'll ever hunt.
The 243 never failed me but once - a shot head-on at a whitetail in moderately heavy brush at 50 yards or so. The bullet just didn't get there I guess (gun was zeroed - double checked later). Go figure...
I've sort of soured on the 257 bore a bit lately too, save the 250-3000. What a polite little round! Trivial recoil and muzzle blast, surprising ballistics, and very good to jaw-dropping accuracy.

9.3 x 62:

Seems we have the same logic and tastes in cartridges. I don't have a 9.3. My closest thing, would be a 338/06. Love that rifle round also.

Never had the pleasure of having a 250 Savage, although I have a 243 ( out of the six I have) that might end up getting rebarreled to one.

Deer here are like shooting a long legged Dobermann.!