I realize this is probably an ill-advised project given the recently standardized 6.5-08, and that the 250-3000 AI is probably comparable. Anyone have any experience with Warren Page's baby? Seems like it would be a fun little round - Bob+P ballistics without the OAL fuss. Thoughts?

My thoughts almost exactly. "Almost" meaning a little longer neck and a slightly steeper shoulder. I had Duane Spooner of Duane's Gun Repair, Tappen, North Dakota, chamber a short (.308 length) action Model 700 in his 257 DGR about 18 months ago and couldn't be more pleased with the versatility of the round. The 257 DGR is based from a 243 Win or 260 Rem case by simply bumping the shoulder back to a 30 degree angle, lengthening the neck to .275" and opening the shoulder diameter slightly. I've measured case capacity at 53.6gr of water in a Norma case.
I've seen 3675fps with 75gr bullets, 3350fps with 87gr bullets and 3200fps with 100gr bullets out of a 24" barrel. None of these loads would be considered showing any signs of over pressure.
In short, I've found this to be a very efficient 25 caliber cartridge. I'm thinking of building a lightweight rifle based on it for mountain hunting. So far, prairie dogs hate it and the muley's ain't real crazy about it.
All in all, I'd say the .257 bullet and the .308 based case were just about perfect for each other.

I think that this is a great caliber. If I didn't already own my 257 AI I would build one on a Mexican Mauser action with a top notch barrel and use it for everything from deer on down. I agree with TomS that the 308 case and 25 caliber bullet are a perfect match.

I'd really have to ask why at this point. The 260 is standardized as a factory round and there's a whopping .007" difference in their respective bore sizes. If there's a specific .257 bullet you'd like to use, I could see it. Not to rain on your parade, but I think you had it right from the start.

Redial

9.3:

I too am intrigued by the Souper. I just took deliver of a barreled action in 25 Souper [well, .257 DGR actually] and look forward
to shooting it and seeing what it will do.
The barrel is only 20.5" [intentionally short]. The action is a Kimber 84M.

A fellow named Mark at Kailua Custom Rifles is a big fan of the .250 Ackley Improved, especially using Lake City .250 Savage brass [rare stuff I am told]. He claims 3150 fps with a 20" tube and 100 grain pill with no pressure using that very strong brass. I decided to try the .257 DGR first [can always rechamber to .250 Ackley if I don't like it] 'cause the .257 DGR has a few more grains powder than the .250 Ackley. Also, the .257 DGR brass is 90% formed by the FL resize die, obviating the extensive fireforming which occurs with the .250 Ackley.

I laid in a supply of Lake City national match .308 brass. It is supposed to be stronger than anything else out there. I am hopeful that I can break 3050 with a 115 grain pill, or 3200 with a 100 grainer, even with the short tube. I had this rifle made short and light. Should make a decent mountain mule deer gun.

We shall see...

Jordan

Although a 6.5 bore fan and 6mm bore fan, I have a soft spot for the 25 bore also. As pointed out, even if it is .007 smaller than 6.5mm.

I love the 257 Roberts, 250 Savage,and even thought a 25/223 would be a great varmint cartridge. Like in 6.5, I don't see the need for a larger case than the x57 case.

I always wondered why a 25/308 was not ever tried commercially. They tried about everything else.

In a lightweight rifle, like a Featherweight Model 70 with a 20 inch barrel, with a 1 x4 or 2 x 7 Leupold scope. The load would be a 117 grain RN on the 25/308, loaded to hot 257 Roberts velocity. ( maybe a Ruger RL would also be desirable, or an International Ruger RSI).

I could be a happy acquaintance of a rifle such as that!!

Hey, Jordan. Let us know how the short barrel works out. Like I said, I'm in the mood to build a lightweight mountain rifle in the 257 DGR and shortening up the pipe is of great interest to me. What contour barrel did you install?
As a side note, I think Duane ought to change the name of his wildcat to what it really is, a 250-3000 Magnum! I can just see the marketing types getting all fired up over that one.

9.3 - I've never had the pleasure of working with this cartridge you ask about, but I remember many years ago when this cartridge was just catching on around my neck of the woods. My gunsmith built several of them and said everyone who had it loved it.

As has been suggested, there is no REAL need or reason for this cartridge...but the terrible truth is there is no reason for 90% of our cartridges. Boys just like different toys!

I have dies for this and a barrel chamber forit at the smith's as we speak. I am waiting to try it out. Keep posting as you progress I will reply as well.

Tom:

I am pretty sure the contour is Lothar Walther's second to the lightest. #1200 I think? At the 20.5" muzzle, the barrel diameter is .600. I now wish I had gone with a a smaller contour. .560" dia at the muzzle strikes me about right for the quarter bore and it would have saved many ounces of weight.

Jordan

How about a .250 (.257) WSSM now? Anyone got ballistics software that could run what a 100gr pill would do for velocity and energy outta such a case?

I agree with the .560" diameter muzzle, Jordan. Either that or, go up one size and flute for weight. But, I don't think there's anyone out there who will flute that small of a diameter. My 257 has a Doug #4 screwed in and with a H-S Precision stock comes in well over 8.5lbs. Great for varminting, antelope and chasing muley's in the flatter stuff but, I wouldn't want to hump it up to sheep country.
What stock are you using it in and when can I expect some performance numbers? I'm wondering how the 4350 and RL-22 speed of powders will work in that length

Tom:

I am having a acrabond laminate carved into a stock for this rifle. I am also making my own synthetic from scratch. Then I can choose between wood or synthetic.

Jordan

"I'd really have to ask why at this point. The 260 is standardized as a factory round and there's a whopping .007" difference in their respective bore sizes."

And the 260 necked down to 25 is a 257 Roberts. 7mm mauser necked to 25 is a 257 Roberts. 6.5 x55 is basically a 260. 6mm Remington is basically a necked down 257 Roberts. 243 Win and 6mm Remington give simmilar results. The same neck up and down ideas have been done on the 243Win./ 308 case body. We are really dancing around a theme here. I say just get a Roberts and load it to suit yourself. I was able to get over 3200 fps with the 100 grain bullets and 3000 with the 117s.

Scot:

I was really wondering if I should have just gone with the "Bob". I went with the .257 DGR 'cause I wanted to try the least amount of case capacity [and hence powder] that would still give me a good chance of getting 3000 fps with a 115 grain pill. Time will tell if it works...

Jordan

Too late, I'm afraid. The golden moment passed when the suits at Remington screwed up on both the 788 and the 600. Nothing would have been simpler than to make those rifles in a line of .308 based cartridges. .25. 7mm, .308, and .358, maybe even a .22.

But the suits did what suits do best and made bad decisions. They put out 788s in .44 mag and .30-30. They chambered the 600 for .35 Remington since it had their name on it. They ignored the .243 and .358 because they had the Winchester name on it. They went out of their way to ugly both stocks and put that silly plastic rib on the 600.

Mutter, mutter, mutter.

left,

I am slowly getting the funds and plans together for a "Daddy Battery" and "Kiddy Battery" for me and the kids. I want all 30-06 based rounds and will build the kids 308 based rounds. If the Remington boys ain't gonna do it, then I will.

30-06, 6.5mm-06, 270, 35 Whelen One wildcat for fun

243, 25-08, 7-08, and 358 Again, one wildcat for fun.

[ 08-02-2003, 01:19: Message edited by: wpm ]