I got a Remington 700 Mountian Rifle in 7MM 08. Sighted in was getting some very excetable hunting groups. The kicker is after the range time it is cleaned well. The next trip to the range the first shot is a flyer about a couple inches high and several inches to the left. Is there a cure or do I always make sure I take it hunting with a fouled barrel?

Al

Not uncommon. Take it to the woods with a fouled barrel!

After sighting my rifles in for hunting season THE RIFLES NEVER GOT CLEANED TILL SOME TIME IN JAN. for the same reason you started this thread.

Even today there are times between range days that some rifles don't get cleaned. Guess I'm not a purest. roger

I've never had a rifle that was that far off with the first shot from a clean, cold barrel. I think a good bedding job may curb some of the wondering on the first shot.
That said, before the hunting season, I clean my rifle(s) and pay particular attention to the bore. I then fire 3 shots to verify zero and "settle" the rifle since I've had it out of the stock, and then I don't clean the bore again until hunting season is over.

I have not had a flyer that was that far off in any of my rifles and I clean them RELIGIOUSLY before and after each range session. The furthest off "target" a first shot ever was is less than an inch. My guns are all free floated barrels with good bedding jobs - other than my 22LR it is not well bedded but it does have a free-floating barrel.

I would suggest free floating the barrel first and then fire from a front and rear rest to see if it is just you "settling in" when shooting.

I am in the quit cleaning it camp. It likes a fouled bore. I would shoot it a bunch, a # of range trips, without cleaning the bore and see how it responds. If the flyer goes away and the groups stay small only clean it to put it away after the season.

PS I have a mountain rifle 7-08 that goes 100 + rounds without needing cleaning.

like the rest...don't clean it...

quote:

Originally posted by alleyyooper:
I got a Remington 700 Mountian Rifle in 7MM 08. Sighted in was getting some very excetable hunting groups. The kicker is after the range time it is cleaned well. The next trip to the range the first shot is a flyer about a couple inches high and several inches to the left. Is there a cure or do I always make sure I take it hunting with a fouled barrel?

Al

AL,

I have a 270 Win that will shoot a 1st shot flyer with any carbon base lube left in the barrel. After I clean this rifle I remove all cleaning and lube from the barrel with an acetone cleaner like gun-scrubber then lube it with silicone followed a dry patch and it will shoot fine. Not sure why this works but maybe worth a try it your rifle.

I use a rest like this for sighting in. Works very well for every thing from 22LR to 54cal Ml.



I clean the bore with windex patches swabing with several patches to insure a clean bore. Works for all my other rifles.
Yes I'll hunt with a dirty bore if there isn't any help for this condition.

Al

"windex" ??? am I about to learn something new?

What kinda bees are you running?

I hunt a fouled bore. I've seen as much as a 3" variance on the first three shots from a clean bore as opposed to a fouled bore.

The end result of my testing is that I clean rifles only about every 100 rounds or so. I'll dry patch on occassion but that's all.

We run mutts. I raise our own queens from what at one time was SMR Carnoloina stock. I call them Karenoloinas. Gentel hygenic stock.

Windex with amoania works very well as a bore cleaner, cheaper by a bunch than the gun cleaner stuff. I use a bore light to check.

Al

Just hunt with a fouled bore. The windex does have ammonia, but is water based, so I hope you run a lightly oiled patch after cleaning.
One experiment I would do is shoot the rifle after cleaning, let sit overnight and then shoot a group and see where #1 goes in relationship to the others. Groups are a great way to evaluate a rifle, but when it comes to hunting it is all about the first shot. After all if number 1 is on the mark, how many more the rifle will put into the same hole is a moot point.

Ammonia is nasty stuff, it was used back in the day to remove the lumps of cupro nickle bullet jacket stuck in the bore. If left too long it would also wreck the bore.

We never clean a bore until accuracy goes away or if it gets wet. Depending on the cartridge that can be 1000 rounds (22RF match) or 10 (a WW I SMLE with a rough cordite insulted bore.)

Cleaning in a modern rifle with the decent quality found in most factory barrels, consists of two Wipeout "squirt and patch" sequences (RTFI), followed by a squirt of brake cleaner to hose out the chamber and any other leftovers in the bore.(keep off the wood!)
If going in storage, a mop with Kroil for protection, if going hunting, three foulers with the exact same ammo you plan to hunt with.

If your rifle still "throws" the first shot, you probably have a bedding issue (common) or a barrel that was "straightened" by the maker.

This is for smokeless guns, Black Powder guns clean well with Vinegar followed by "Bore Butter" for seasoning and protection.

alleyyooper, It happens a lot. I've had some success using Hoppes Elite, both when cleaning just before oiling the barrel, and to wipe the bore clean before shooting.

The worst one I've had was a custom Mauser in .270. 4" high AND right every time no matter what I tried. Bedding, free floating, etc. etc. etc. Final solution: gave it to my son-in-law.

There is absolutely NOTHING, when using modern smokeless powder and non-mercuric, non-corrosive primers, which will harm your bore if left "uncleaned", even for an extended period of time. (This assumes that it is not exposed directly to moisture.)

If, after a lengthy range session or multiple sessions, your bore needs cleaning (in order to restore accuracy, which is the only reason for cleaning), then clean and fire one to three shots prior to going hunting.

This will NOT ensure that your first shot goes precisely into the group since most sporters will place the first shot from a cold barrel a bit out of the group, anyway. It will ensure that your first shot is not excessively removed from the group.

"Bedding" rarely has much to do with it since poor bedding results in larger groups to begin with, not so much in single flyers. I'll be relieved when "floating the barrel" once again fades from fashion as a cure-all for accuracy problems. Floating the barrel is nothing more than a lazy man's way of avoiding bedding the barrel correctly (and an excuse for an ugly, gaping chasm between the barrel and the stock.)

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:

Floating the barrel is nothing more than a ""lazy man's way"" of avoiding bedding the barrel correctly (and an excuse for an ugly, gaping chasm between the barrel and the stock.)

On this point we are in different camps. I truly am not lazy. Some times those gaps on my rifles look like the Grand Canyon. I'm talking field rifles and not BR types. roger

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
Some times those gaps on my rifles look like the Grand Canyon. I'm talking field rifles and not BR types. roger

And, the difference between a field and BR rifle should be what when it comes to aesthetics?

I've got several rifles that put the first clean shot out of the group, and others that need several shots before they settle down and really start grouping. These are easily handled by doing my level best to never clean them again.

What is very frustrateing are the barrels that stubbornly refuse to put the cold shot anywhere near the group, no matter if they are clean or dirty. The easiest and long term cheapest way to handle these pipes is to carefully unscrew them and throw them as far humanly possible. Life is too short (and you're a long time dead)to put up with junk. Having said that, some of them can be calmed down with considerable forend pressure.

quote:

Originally posted by graybird:

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:
Some times those gaps on my rifles look like the Grand Canyon. I'm talking field rifles and not BR types. roger

And, the difference between a field and BR rifle should be what when it comes to ""aesthetics?""

What does believing in God have to do with the Grand Canyon? roger

It might be that the method of cleaning has something to do with it. If the same thing happens to more than one rifle but the cleaning method is the common factor, you have the answer.

In general, I don't clean the bores of my rifles until the fouling starts to affect accuracy. I have a 6.5x55 that shoots 3" groups on a clean bore, and 1.25" groups once its good and dirty.

quote:

Originally posted by Gerard:
It might be that the method of cleaning has something to do with it. If the same thing happens to more than one rifle but the cleaning method is the common factor, you have the answer.

+1