Doing a little Googlesurfing at lunch, and ran across this gem;

http://www.ballisticstudies.co...3000.250+Savage.html

Lots of "wisdom" that you .250 Savage fans will find surprising, including this;

quote:

The .250 Savage was an important step in the development of the modern hunting cartridge. From the .250, ballisticians and hunters were able to learn about velocity versus bullet weight and velocity versus bore size in the pursuit of effective game killing. Thousands of deer were taken with the .250 up until the late 1950’s but make no mistake, many hundreds of animals suffered overly slow kills.

All I can say is WOW! No wonder newbies end up with .270 WSMs for whitetail hunting.

Wow! Whoever wrote that put a lot of bad, incorrect, information into the public domain.

Arthur Savage was no longer associated with Savage Arms when the 250-3000 was introduced in 1915.

Charles Newton was the guy who wanted a 100 grain bullet. The Savage marketing people wanted the 3000 fps velocity level that required them to reduce the bullet weight to 87 grains.

Jeff

But they wouldn't let him put that on the internet if it weren't true, would they?

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
But they wouldn't let him put that on the internet if it weren't true, would they?

Thank you Al Gore, Father of the Internet.

quote:

Originally posted by CouchTater:
All I can say is WOW! No wonder newbies end up with .270 WSMs for whitetail hunting.

Think that is bad read this quote:

quote:

I've been hunting exclusively with my Taurus .22 Magnumm revolver for 10 years now and when I hunt with it I only feed it with the 34 grain supremes. My experiences with this bullet have all been superb. Everything from squirrels to moose ,can be taken with it ,under the right conditions.Personally my kill list includes turkey,coyote,snowshoe hares,cotton tails,squirrel,pheasants,grouse,and grounhogs.On my wish list is a Maine whitetail buck, blackbear,and a moose in Vermont, Maine and Vermont allow .22 magnums for big game.I have done penetration tests with the supreme,that remove all doubt. Why a gun writer would say the .22 Mag is outdated and I should be using a .17 is crap .THERE IS NO COMPARISON PERIOD......

I found it on Cheaper than Dirt looking at 34 grain Winchester Supreme .22 WMR ammunition. This guy gave it one hell of a review.
It still makes me giggle.....

I don't mind shooting deer with a 22 MRF, but prefer to use tougher bullets when doing so.

Jeff

Considering the .250-3000 in the Mod. 99 there may be some truth in the article. Than Ray Atkinson's father's 25-35 comes to mind and it tells a totally different story.
In a bolt action rifle with no magazine or throating restrictions a fully loaded (2800fps) .250-3000 with a 120 gr. bullet becomes a horse of a different color. The 6.5s are only .007" bigger in dia. and many on this forum use the 120gr. 6.5 bullet in modest cartridges with little or no concern of adequacy.The SD and BC of the 120gr. .257 is a scosh greater than that of the 120gr. 6.5mm which a number on this forum swear by. For those that read the article it might behoove you to read , understand what it says, weigh carefully the opposite information and than arrive at you're own decision.
""Personally"" for the HUNTER to use the right load , be willing to stalk close enough and take that right placed shot the .250-3000 is the right medicine for even mule deer. roger

From the same site.

"With many 140 grain 7mm08 factory loads, penetration is poor on tough medium game. To some extent, both the demand and expectations of the 7mm08 are so high that ammunition manufacturers are asked to produce the impossible. As a compromise, to promote fast killing at ranges of 200 to 400 yards, loads are designed to produce explosive wounding for the fastest possible kills rather than deep penetration and exit wounding on tough game. Hunters must therefore set realistic expectations of factory ammunition performance."

Can someone tell me what "tough medium game" is? What do I need to kill it?

Oh man, now I'm really confused.


"The performance of factory .270 Winchester ammunition has undergone a significant change since the U.S war on Terrorism began in 2001. The war on Terrorism sparked a massive corporate bidding frenzy for military contracts. Contractors such as Federal, not only increased their focus on military ammunition but also smartened up their entire company profile by enhancing the performance of sporting ammunition.
For several decades, U.S factory sporting .270 130 grain ammunition produced between 2800 and 2900fps with 2850fps being the average. The only company that produced a load with a muzzle velocity above 3000fps was Olin (Winchester).

Most pre 9:11 ammunition produced very poor performance on game. The combination of low muzzle velocities, non aerodynamic bullet designs and the trend towards 22” barrels all took a toll on performance. At close ranges, this ammunition performed adequately but at ranges beyond 100 yards, kills could be very slow. At 200 yards, lean bodied animals would often show no sign of a bullet strike whatsoever and escape to cover. Many hunters would have been fooled by what seemed like a complete miss when using this ammunition of the past."

quote:

Originally posted by CouchTater:
Doing a little Googlesurfing at lunch, and ran across this gem;

http://www.ballisticstudies.co...3000.250+Savage.html

Lots of "wisdom" that you .250 Savage fans will find surprising, including this;



All I can say is WOW! No wonder newbies end up with .270 WSMs for whitetail hunting.

I better get a whizz bang short magnum, my 6.5x55 is grossly inadequate for hunting.

quote:

Originally posted by Jpat:
I better get a whizz bang short magnum, my 6.5x55 is grossly inadequate for hunting.

At least wear some safety goggles due to the risk of your bullet bouncing back at you.

Folks it seems that critters are getting tougher and tougher every year.
Now I guess I need to get rid of all those wounding,slow death calibers that I have.

Originally posted by scottfromdallas:
Oh man, now I'm really confused.

quote:

"The performance of factory .270 Winchester ammunition has undergone a significant change since the U.S war on Terrorism began in 2001.

Most pre 9:11 ammunition produced very poor performance on game. The combination of low muzzle velocities, non aerodynamic bullet designs and the trend towards 22” barrels all took a toll on performance. At close ranges, this ammunition performed adequately but at ranges beyond 100 yards, kills could be very slow. At 200 yards, lean bodied animals would often show no sign of a bullet strike whatsoever and escape to cover. Many hunters would have been fooled by what seemed like a complete miss when using this ammunition of the past."

I don't blame you a bit, Scott. I gather you would ordinarily raise the flag regards that quote, but as you didn't, I will


I killed many, many big game animals with conventional and/or premium bullets before 9/11, and never found a need for more expensive (and "better"...really?) ones such as those which came AFTER 9-11.


Funny how my ancestors managed to live long enough to generate ME with all their rotten equipment isn't it? Yeh, they did what anyone else would do who needed protein to eat...they improved their hunting skills to where they didn't have to worry about wounding and losing needed meals (animals) at X-hundreds of yards.

I strongly suspect the real impetus behind supposedly better (and certainly more expensive) bullets had to do with one or more of several other things:

1. The greenie-weenie movement extremism which wants to ban mining or using anything and everything it can, as a means of achieving power over others.

2. The reduction of the number of hunters in North America (partly due to reduced opportunities to hunt). Less hunters means less total sporting bullet sales in the long run, which makes it imperative to make more profit per bullet. The total market sales figures may not have yet been reduced, as non-premium slugs are still easy to get, but it never hurts in business to be slightly ahead of a clearly visible coming curve.

3. Political strategy to reduce the availability of guns to citizens by reducing the number and increasing the cost of legal types of ammunition,

4. Etc.

Anyway, I for one am a tiny bit surprised such a bullshoot site manages to stay afloat. Reminds me of the clean end of a pig turd. Still mainly Sh-t from a less than highly knowledgeable creature.

9-11 and it's affect on hunting bullets??? Will the crowd please give me a loud W-T-F ???? :-)

W.T.F. ???


How was that?

Are you guys telling me that they CAN put stuff on the internet that isn't true? Next thing, you'll be saying that it doesn't have to be true to put it on TV!

There is no difference between the garbage that the news media has been putting out for years and the garbage that is put out on the internet...with the exception than now EVERYONE can add some comment, ignorant or not, without any oversight, being called on the carpet OR ACCOUNTABILITY.

Eveytime someone repeats something they read, then adds their take, the confusion just get worse. Most people read into what they see or hear, what their "INTERPRETATION" is, then runs and pi**'s that back on the web...and most don't really care if their comments are true or false or really even know.

I read that article and what was said was true from a certain point of view...maybe not yours, or maybe not a few thousand others, but it was true for maybe another few thousand who read the article with an open mind or from another frame of reference.

All the originator did was open up the same old BS that happens all the time...one opinion vs another opinion which is the total ignorance as far as I can see, just more stiring the pot.

I have a 250 AI right now and I've had at least one 250 Savage somewhere most of my life. It is no better or no worse that a 243, I have/had a couple of those also, or any number of other calibers large and small. I've taken many deer/antelope/varmints and I've lost a few, but I can say that about many of my rifle...most of which had to do with circumstances or just bad luck.

I can't blame the rifle as many hunters do.

WHERE in the he** did the 911 garbage come from?? Just amother example of opinion without being held accountable and all the comments are just someones expressed opinion and just as bad or maybe worse as once ANY information is published on the net, it is there forever.

Of course NO ONE EVER really thinks about HOW their words are interpreted by others outside the USA or anywhere else in the world for that matter or that their "proofs" are just as bad or worse the the original garbage.

WE NEVER LEARN.

lUCK

The .250 Savage will kill any non-dangerous game a hunter would care to use it on.

I keep thinking of the professional trapper I hired to reduce the wild pig population, he started shooting them in the traps with a .38 Special in a laser sighted lever rifle chambered for the .357 Magnum. Then switched to a .22 L.R. to keep the noise down. Then there were the deputies that took free range pigs with the .223 Remington.

Modern bullets make the difference, a .257" Barnes 80 grain TTSX will do about anything needed on a deer, antelope, or pig. Just use a discretion on the bears. The Nosler 85 grain Solid Base Ballistic Tip between 2800 and 3090 fps is an ideal white tail combo. Even the 100 grain Solid Base or Partition can be driven between 2700 - 2900 fps. That's gotta put the freezer burn on any venison. We often have a mistaken idea of how much killing game takes, ideas usually driven by marketeers and gun writers stirring up interest int latest greatest.