I've been shooting Winchester factory ammo out of my Model 1894 Winchester but see that Czech Sellier & Bellot is also available for a much better price(about $12/box). The European designation on the Czech stuff is 6.5x52mmR. Here are my concerns/questions regarding this ammo:
1) If a US 25 caliber bullet as found in the 25-35 measures .257, won't European 6.5 diameter(isn't that .264?) be dangerous if fired from the Model 1894?
2) Is the Sellier & Bellot ammo pointed soft
point or round nosed soft point? (I'm sure you know why I want to know the answer to that one!)
Thanks in advance for your responses.

I'll fumble out an answer here.....the european designation is not the same as US designation.

Here we know that a 6.5MM is a .264 but the conversion is 6.5 X .03937 = .256

We measure the groove diameter and they measure the bore diameter.

It's something like this and it always confuses me.

Where is the information that this S&B ammo is actually .25-35 ammo.....If they say it is then I'd believe it and to insure it is measure a bullet with a micrometer to make sure.

Or to put it another way...

Europeans refer to american "25cal" as 6.35mm
because they generally go by bore diameter, not groove diameter.

AllanD

The English/metric equivelent chart in RCBS-Load shows:
6.4 x 33R = 25-20 WCF
6.4 x 41R = 25-20 SS
6.4 x 52R = 25-35 WCF
6.4 x 57 = 257 Roberts
6.4 x 63 = 25-06
6.5 x 62 = 256 Newton
6.5 x 63K = 264 Win Mag

I've seen the S&B 6.5x52R advertised by a few distributors in Shotgun News and Gun List and they put "25-35 Win" beside the European designation. I've also read some articles(most recently the
Feb-Mar 2006 issue of Handloader Magazine) that mention these are one and the same cartridge.
This makes me wonder about the sameness/difference
between the 257 Roberts and the 6.5x57mm. Are they then identical too or not? Both are derived from the 7mm Mauser. The 6.5x57 is a popular round in Germany. The 257's birth is credited to Ned Roberts, correct? What gives here?

Oh Boy, .257 Roberts and 6.5x57 ARE NOT Identical!!!! The Roberts is a .25 caliber, the 6.5x57mm Mauser is a proper 6.5mm i.e., at .264 inches. This is another case of ya gotta be careful with metrics!! Oddly, the 6.5x57mm IS the Euro equivalent of the .257 Roberts. I think the 6.5 is a little better round, largely because you have a better mix of bullets offered for the 6.5mm. I have and shoot both.

LLS
Mannlicher Collector

Trust me: The S&B 6.5x52R ammo holds a .25 caliber (.257 dia) bullet and is the same as the 25-35. And the 6.5x57 is loaded with a .264 diameter bullet, just like the 6.5x55, .260, etc.

Cartridges of the World, 10th Edition, shows listings of 6.5mm cartridges from .257 dia to .265dia. Not just a metric problem either.
EG. 218bee, 219Zipper, 22Savage .222, .223, 224, 225 etc. And I like where the 404 J is a much bigger dia than the 416 Rigby.

It's not a system, it's a mess.

quote:

Originally posted by kaschi:
1) If a US 25 caliber bullet as found in the 25-35 measures .257, won't European 6.5 diameter(isn't that .264?) be dangerous if fired from the Model 1894? Thanks in advance for your responses.

It will NOT be dangerous if the stuff you are talking about is INDEED .25/35 ammo, and merely called 6.5X52R by the European manufacturer...... However, if, made in Europe, it might be intended for break-action doubles/drillings/combination guns rather than rifles with tubular magazines, and could therefore be loaded with pointed bullets.

[quote]This makes me wonder about the sameness/difference
between the 257 Roberts and the 6.5x57mm. Are they then identical too or not? Both are derived from the 7mm Mauser. The 6.5x57 is a popular round in Germany. The 257's birth is credited to Ned Roberts, correct? What gives here?[/qoute]

The 6.5X57mm is a true .264-diameter bulleted round. It is NOT identical to the .257 Roberts, although the cases are, for all practical pourposes, the same except for the neck diameters!

The 6.5X57, and most other .264" European 6.5mm cartridges, can be loaded with MUCH HEAVIER bullets than the .257 Roberts due to the fact that European 6.5mm's are GENERALLY rifled with much quicker twists than the Roberts (which Ned himself though of more as a varmint rifle than anything else). Whereas, the Roberts is pretty much limited to bullets not much heavier than 120 grains or so.

(My old Hornady Manual #3 states "Many European combination guns were chambered for the .25/35 under the designation 6.5X52R, and these same loads can be used with cartridges so designated....." That should be a sufficient answer here!)

The 6.5x52R ammo from S&B is loaded with a flat-point bullet and kept to very mild pressures.