A friend of mine has wanted to get an AR platform rifle, mostly because he wants one and Obama doesn't like that!

And while a .223/5.56 would have worked, he thought if he could have something to deer hunt with, that'd be bonus points.

With some investigation, he has settled on a new Sharps .25-45 upper, 18" stainless barrel, NP3 coating on the bolt carrier group, and muzzle brake. It's supposed to spit an 87 grain, 25 caliber bullet at close to 3,000 fps, which puts it close to .25-06 ballistics, still using standard AR bolt face and standard AR magazines.

While this sounds great, I'm curious if anyone has one and can tell me anything about the cartridge?

It's just a 223 necked up to 25 caliber. No where near the ballistics of 25-06. I would be extremely skeptical of 3,000 fps with an 87 grain bullet especially from a 18" barrel.

Probably closer to 2800 fps from an 18" barrel which should be fine for deer.

You can't hunt deer with a .223?

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
You can't hunt deer with a .223?

Maybe he isn't a stunt shooter like you.

I would want to see those numbers over my Oehler.
The original 250-3000 was an 87gr bullet. The 3000 part was their factory velocity.

Their number is 257 Roberts velocity in most of the reloading manuals I have sitting on the shelf.

I bought a SRC bolt carrier group for an AR build I just completed. Nice piece-the NP3 coating is slick as snot and cleans up with ease. As for the .25-45 cartridge, might be nice where .224" dia bullets are illegal for deer, but there are better choices for medium-size game on an AR-15 platform, IMHO. Enter the 6.5 Grendel...

Scott if it was a one time deal, I'd consider it stunt shooting, but as routine as it is, no stunt at all.

I thought it would make a nice light little open-sight AR carbine with an A2 receiver and A2 front sight. But I didn't like the style of the uppers Sharps offered so I ordered an upper from someone else. Unfortunately, I had to opt for 6.8 over .25-45 because Sharps is the only company offering .25-45 uppers.

I think the cartridge can offer a lot. Yes, 3000 fps was the original factory spec for the .250-3000 and performance of that round can be bested today. But the .25-45 still offers respectable performance for a little cartridge. It reaches higher velocities than the .25-35 using similar weight bullets. I think it is a nice option for the AR and I will probably get one in time. It also seems like it would be a good option for a small bolt action rifle.

You do know that you don't have to order the entire upper, that you can just order a barrel and modify an existing upper, right?

Yes, and I have the technical expertise to install it myself. However, the cost of proper tools is not worth the single conversion.

quote:

Originally posted by Grenadier:
Yes, and I have the technical expertise to install it myself. However, the cost of proper tools is not worth the single conversion.

I am pretty new to this AR game but someone correct me if I misstate the tools required to change out a barrel.
1. Vise
2. Armorers wrench
3. Torque wrench

Thomas

Snap Ring Pliers
Receiver Clamp

Hammer

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman1:
Scott if it was a one time deal, I'd consider it stunt shooting, but as routine as it is, no stunt at all.

It was just a joke. Just having some fun.

It seems SRC really pigeonholed the 25-45 for the 87gr bullets, and specifically the Speer hotcore, I believe that is all they load. Well they offer 75's as well. Many other bullets are either too long to get enough powder in, or the ogive is too long to seat it properly and the neck would be above the ogive, to fit in an AR mag.

I am really toying with building a bolt 25-45, I've got a 20" McGowen ultra light barrel in 257, and a Model 7 action with the .380 bolt face. Being able to load out longer changes things a bit, allowing longer seating and using other bullets. Reading through the incredibly long 25-223 thread on AR15.com, people seem pretty happy with the results, but a giant slayer it is not.

The downsides are really just capacity for powder, bullets, and speed. Which these days is huge for most folks. For the rest of us its good enough to do the job.

The upsides, to me, are big. Light recoil, cheap and available brass, easy case work, and enough power/range to get the job done, as long as you don't ask too much of it.

Still...I'm on the fence, a 250 AI is calling my name for the action/barrel as well. Would be real easy to get a new bolt from PTG and zip those quarter bore pills at a pretty good pace, even from a 20" barrel.

I have an issue of Rifle's Varmint, It has an article about the 25-45 Sharps. In the article they compare it to the 250 Savage. They also have an article about the 250 Savage right next to it.
They show velocities in excess of 2800 fps with 87 gr bullets.
The 250 Savage shows the same bullet at speeds in excess of 3000.
The 25-45 is close but not quite the match of the 250.
It's not a bad little round but only a short range deer round.
Leo

If you want a 25-06 from an AR, why not just go with a 25 WSSM and be done with it? Can get a complete upper, or just the makin's and build your own.

quote:

Originally posted by Slowpoke Slim:
If you want a 25-06 from an AR, why not just go with a 25 WSSM and be done with it? Can get a complete upper, or just the makin's and build your own.

Because he wanted a rifle that used easy to find brass. .25 WSSM brass isn't exactly lying around at every local gravel pit. .223/5.56 Nato brass is.

We built an Anderson lower and today we put a Redfield 3x9 Accu-Plex scope on it. We had it shooting the standard 87 grain pills to about an inch and a quarter inside of three shots.

Now, I'll start working up some handloads to see if we can tighten up the groups a little more.

All in all, we're both pleased with the performance of this little rifle. I'll know more after the next deer season....

quote:

Originally posted by Shof:

quote:

Originally posted by Slowpoke Slim:
If you want a 25-06 from an AR, why not just go with a 25 WSSM and be done with it? Can get a complete upper, or just the makin's and build your own.

Because he wanted a rifle that used easy to find brass. .25 WSSM brass isn't exactly lying around at every local gravel pit. .223/5.56 Nato brass is.

You can't find it anywhere. You'd have to be crazy to buy any WSSM unless you already have a lifetime supply of brass.

Has any body worked up a load for the 25/45 Sharps with a Hornady 75 Gr vmax bullet in the AR platform yet

Just a comment that, in addition to brass availability, the WSSM doesn't fit in an AR-15 platform.

Clarence

Actually, you are incorrect. It does fit. I've seen the uppers, but no I don't own one.

Bolt Thrust. even a 7mmbr is a push on an ar15

quote:

Originally posted by Slowpoke Slim:
If you want a 25-06 from an AR, why not just go with a 25 WSSM and be done with it? Can get a complete upper, or just the makin's and build your own.

I have been working with Sharps' 20" upper for a short while. With their new loaded factory 87gr speer, it makes 2825.
Their propaganda gives 3000 FPS, some places with 20" Barrel, other places 24".

Working loads with 85gr Nosler B Tip, RL7 is the only powder I have on hand to match that so far.
IMR 3031, RL10X not even close.
Going to give 4198 some more work, as it's giving very good consistency, and getting closer to 2800 with safe pressures.
Quit with 4227, as pressures are going too high too soon.
Accuracy with all has been stellar.

I went 6X45 and 6X47 and I think in the end it's more gain than the .25X45. There is just a wider range of projectiles that fit into the AR magazine in 6mm giving a guy more choices. I just don't see 3000 fps being a common occurrence in a .25-45 regardless of barrel length.