Help! I need some reloading information and advice for making a friends 6.5x64MS shoot accurately, it is shooting all over the place at 100 yards - 6"+ groups. Have tightened all the screws but to no avail. The scope is a new S&B scope so that shouldnt be the problem!

I read somewhere that the bores on these older guns are not always what they are supposed to be. What (load) - do you use in your accurate MS carbine rifle?

Thanks,
Reddy375

I had a rifle do that and a gunsmith I know actually recommended try loosening a few screws stating that I probably overtorqued them, and they were causing the barrel to be hitting wood... I did that and the groups tightened down to under an inch...

I took some wood out underneath the barrel channel and then retightened the screws so that the barrel was then free floated...

You might want to have a bore cast made and see if the bullet diameter is a true 264. Some [lize for todays bullets. Mine shoots the old RWS and Kynoch fine but is a bit erratic with the Sierras. It DOES shoot the old Hornady 160 RN fine though. Good luck with a great little rifle.
Aloha, Mark

You might find it helpful to slug the bore (or make a Cerrosafe casting of it) at some point in your endeavors. Depending on the country of origin and the era of manufacture, barrels seem to vary all the way from .263" to .268" groove diameter.

If I was mesuring the bore, I'd likely take my first measurement in the area right at the muzzle end. If it was larger than .264" there, then I'd also take a measurement at the breech end. If I found the measurement was the same at both ends, or was a little smaller at the muzzle than at the breech, then I'd use the appropriate size bullets and not worry too much about bullet fit to the bore. A little swaging down of the bullet as it passes through the bore can actually be a good thing for accuracy sometimes.

If, on the ther hand, it turned out the bore was larger at the muzzle than at the breech, then I'd be a bit discouraged. Though there are probably numerous exceptions, I have usally not gotten best accuracy from barrels which tend to be a bit "bell-mouthed". Apparently a firm grip of the bullet for the bit of travel just before the bullet leaves the bore can be important to accuracy.

I have a Dutch M95 made by Steyr in the rimmed version of that round - 6.5X53.5R. Being an M95 it is not scoped but shoots well with the 140 Hornady spitzers. My load is very light and slow...30 grains of H4895. If you are using a 140 grn boat tail like the Sierra you might try a shorter bullet. I have had them keyhole in a 6.5 Arisaka.
Hornady once manufactured a 140 grn RN that would be easy to stabilize. My groove diameter at the muzzle is .267.

The suggestion on loosening the screws and working with the bedding is a good one. Any time you find a Mannlicher with the action screws aligned anyplace but parallel to the barrel you know it's been monkeyed with, or possibly abused. As for ammunition, I've had my best luck with the 156-160 grain class bullets that these old guns were made for.

LLS
Mannlicher Collector

quote:

Originally posted by reddy375:
Help! I need some reloading information and advice for making a friends 6.5x64MS shoot accurately, it is shooting all over the place at 100 yards - 6"+ groups. Have tightened all the screws but to no avail. The scope is a new S&B scope so that shouldnt be the problem!

I read somewhere that the bores on these older guns are not always what they are supposed to be. What (load) - do you use in your accurate MS carbine rifle?

Thanks,
Reddy375

I've got two of them. Both G.I. Breda M1903's, but obviously made for Greece in Italy.

One shoots 2" groups @ 100 yards using the Sierra .264" 160-grain roundnose and 42 grains of RE22. MV of this load is 2200 FPS. The other won't shoot for sour apples, even with Hornady .268" bullets. Half the bullets keyhole, etc. When I slugged and miked the bore, the groove diameter came out .272", and the rifling, although there, is in poor condition.

The only way I will ever get this thing to shoot is to rebarrel it, or have the bore recut and rerifled to use 7mm bullets. I don't think it would clean up enough for .277" (.270 Win.) bullets. I did make up some dummy rounds using 6.5X54 M/S brass and .284" bullets, and they work through the magazine. I had considered rebarreling it to .250 Savage, but the larger case head is about .05" too big around to work in the magazine spindle. Would have to use the M/S case.....

Am not convinced this clunker is worth the cost of a rebore job!

You got some good advice here. I haven't worked on one for awhile but have always found full stock rifles (carbines) can take some fooling around with to make them shoot. Seems I also recall these shot best with the longer bullets most of the time. Bore diameter & wear (damage etc.) might be a factor. These barrels were very well made. Also check the headspace & compare to the ammo you're using. disassemble the bolt & stick a small piece of .002 shimstock on the back of an unfired cartridge with a dag of grease and close the action. You should feel a drag. FWIW, I've always felt the MS carbines were (one of) the coolest looking rifles ever made. Saddam liked his ).

It's a 1093 Mannlincher Schoenauer carbine( less to 18" barrel)?
I have one of this marvelous carbine (and I had other similar 10 years ago) and shoot very well the Hornady 160 gr RN bullets, good with the 140 gr. Sierra and erratic with less weith (Hornady 129 and Nosler 120 BT).
Reloader 19 and Hodgon 414 are the best powders for my carbine with 160 gr bullets.
Regards.
Hector