With the impending arrival of my daughter's new Rem 700 CDL SF Limited Ed in 260 Rem I'm trying to determine if it is worth the extra money for a set of high end bushing neck dies by Redding. Forster bump die is not made in 260 Rem.

I'm sure one can make truer/straighter ammo, but, will it improve accuracy in a factory spec chamber/barrel?

I like Redding, Forster and the Lee neck collet dies.

In addition, I'd like to find out if you think it's worth the extra money for the Micrometer seating dies? I use the Forster Ultra seater for my 30-06 AI but then I've got such a long magazine that seating depth can be short or VERY long. With the restrictions of the Rem short mag box, I may just end up seating max mag box length

Your opinions and experience please.

For the record, for my 30-06 AI, I first punch out the primer with a universal decapper, then run through a custom Redding body die, then the Lee neck collet die then the Forster Ultra seater. The best I can get is .004" TIR. Yet with my 9.3x62 using straight Redding FL die set, I can from a TIR of .000" to .012", most .002" to .006".

Alan

Personal opinion....I do not use the bushing dies for any hunting rounds. I just never saw the need for that potential extra .01". My .260 shoots well under an inch, as do all of my 6.5 caliber rifles, with normal dies. If I do decide to neck size only, I use the standard neck size dies. The Lee collet should be fine.

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I'm trying to determine if it is worth the extra money for a set of high end bushing neck dies by Redding.

Not in my mind. The current craze over neck bushing dies is a solution for problems few reloaders have, IMHO. In fact, your problems with concentricity seem common with the bushing dies.

The Lee collet neck die and a Forster seater accomplishes all we can hope to achieve with common brass fired in factory chambers.

What are your accuracy goals from the rifle? If find if the rifle is up to it, I can get 1/2 moa accuracy with most std fl sizer and seater dies loading for factory rifles. I like micrometer seaters and am kicking myself for sellign the forster br dies I sold in .243, as I got my son a .243 after I'd sold the dies.

Bushing dies aren't a bad thing for factory rifles as I like to work the neck as little as possible, but I also like a fl sized case and you don't get that with a bushing die.

I love the micrometer seating dies that I have for a couple of calibers. Mostly because they are so easy to set precisely, and once you know the setting, they are easy to reset. The downside to them is that you can't crimp with them (at least I don't think you can.) They are a bit pricey but I am buying them from here on out.

On the other hand, bushing dies are wholly unnecessary for a hunting rifle. Like Paul H, I agree that standard dies are plenty good enough for 1/2 MOA loads if the rifle is capable. So I wouldn't mess with the bushing dies.

LWD

You will never get a perfect TIR with a factory chamber unless you are VERy lucky. There are way too many parameters acting together and against that happening. NOTHING about the factiry chamber/bolt/barrel/receiver system is ever parallel and square.

Add to that the fact that most reloading presses have way too much slop, the ram and shell holder are likely to be out of whack and the ram itself may not be true or parallel to the die. It is a wonder that we can prepare ammo as consistent and precise as we can.

The ONLY way I've found to remove TIR...CONSISTENTLY IN A FACTORY CHAMBERED RIFLE...is to use FL dies with the RAM, SHELL HOLDER, THREADED DIE HOLE AND DIES checked for squareness, then run the ram up to the top of the stroke TIGHT against the die face with NO breakover at the top while a case is being sized.

At one time I had every reloading press I bought checked by a machinest for squareness and paralellisity...not any more. I run the rams on my several presses up against the die bottom THEN, turn the die down one full turn to be sure ALL the slop is gone from the different linkage points. This was sufficient for all except my benchrest shooters. I don't compete any more but I load for my small cal varminters the same way and those rifle stay well below 0.400" or I start looking for the reason.

I've ran numerous test over 30 years to check the above fact out. I've used just about every brand of die on the market during those years and every type. Barring a problem die and learning from my tests, I have settled on the Redding Bushing FULL LENGTH sizing die whenever I can find one for the cartridge and Forester Ultra seater. With this combination the best I can do with a factory chamber is 0.000" to 0.003" TIR average with neck turned cases. RCBS and LYMAN do as well unless a die is messed up.

I also use Lee Collet dies for some of my hunting rifles. I check 3-4 cases out of any bunch I don't have Redding Bushing dies for TIR...any that are over 0.003" or so, get run through a FL die then check again.

Unless you have a custom benchrest built rifle AND dies AND an accurate and precise press this is about all you can expect. REMEMBER...TIR means Total Indicator Runout... and half of the TIR is the actual amount of runout in the case. TIR of up to 0.003" will give you quarter inch groups at 100M any day of the week as long as you can hold that close.

We humans start blaming everything except ourselves when it comes to expectations. If you want bugholes you have to work for them and pay through the nose at the same time in dollars and time.

I know...everyone out there has a bug hole rifle and just throws the ammo together without much care. ME TOO...but that's only because I'm a legend in my own mind.

Most reloaders don't go to the required trouble of benchrest prepping their ammo and rifle to get those small groups and many don't have the expertise or tools to get there anyway.

Whenever I read a question like yours Alan, over 50 years of experience screams to give you all the answers and all that work, but it would take me another 50 years to do it. The question also implies you have a certain level of knowledge but asking it also implies you're not quite there yet. You need to step back and re-analyse all the parameters as a system and not consentrate on just one small facet, but asking it also means you are on the right path and getting close to the "pot'o'gold".

My best advice is to read all you can on all the forums, put all that information together, do all the work and THEN MAYBE you will have the answers. You are looking for BALANCE AND CONSISTENCY in a lot of brass...not just a few cases. The average hunter/reloader doesn't have the time or patiences, understanding, knowledge or desire to do all that is required just to go shoot a varmint or deer. Don't get too anal about the amount of runout you are getting...it takes away all the pleasure of the sport...and doesn't mean much anyway.

Luck in your endeavors.

Generally speaking, I do not think your use (the little I know of it) justifies spending money on bushing dies.

The micro-adjustable dies can be worth the money, if you are using a variety of different bullet weights or a bunch of different rifles in that same chambering. If so, the ease with which they can be re-set to previously developed OALs is quite handy.

If you are using mainly one bullet, in one rifle, they are of no significant value over standard dies in my view. Even if you use two different bullets, it is pretty easy to mark the seating stem or die body, or to count the # of threads from all the way into the press that you set the standard seating die and you still won't need the micro-adjustment.

As to consistency of run-out, reports vary on how much of that will make accuracy start to suffer. In BR more than a couple of thou may represent a real problem, but not in hunting ammo. The single best improver of rifle accuracy is more time spent shooting.


My own first rule of handloading for hunting is to take great pains with the really important things, and don't waste time on those of relatively little importance. The tough part is identifying which items are really important for your rifle and use.

Nope.
Spend the money you save on more components. In the end you have more to show for your dollars.

Here's another thought that will save you the cost of micro-adjustable dies.

When you have developed a load which you want to be able to duplicate, make up a "dummy round"...no primer, no powder, for each different bullet and seating depth you commonly use. Keep the dummies (labelled with magic marker) in your die box with the dies.

When you want to load one of those combos, screw the seating die all the way into the press to the lock ring. Then back off the seating stem half a dozen or so turns. Put the appropriate dummy for that round and bullet into the shell holder and raise the ram all the way up.

Then turn the seating stem down with your fingers until the seating plug is felt to touch the bullet in the dummy round. Zingo! You have now re-set the standard seating die to produce the correct overall length for that round. No micrometer adjuster required.

I have a 260 Redding 3 die set (full, neck and seating dies)and it loads ammo under 1" @ 200 yards.

For the factory 260 game getter....Forster FL/BR seater set along with a Lee collet and you're set...here's my run of the mill 260 Pac Nor barrel using Lee collet & Forster seater..

I just load and shoot mine...

have RCBS, Redding and Lee Dies for it...
use the Lee and RCBS the most...

have a brand new set of Hornady's in a Box, that have never been opened..

acquired those in like 2000...

I have a rem BDL and just put a shelin barrel on a savage.Have a set of Rcbs FL and a set of Lee collect dies.I use the collect dies 99%of the time and they work great for me.And I get very good accuracy useing them.The first pic is 7 shots with the rem BDL

The second pic is testing different powder with the new barrel at 300 yds.

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The micro-adjustable dies can be worth the money,...

I love Foster and Redding BR/Competion seaters. Nuch mmore for the fact they have a "straight line" seating action since the case is fully contained in a slinging chamber than the slight convience of micrometer heads.

In fact, most of my Forster seaters DON"T have the micrometer head, it's nice but costs much more than it's actually worth to me.

I use an RCBS Precision Case Mic set to let me know how deep to set my bullets and how to properly adjust my FL sizers. The Mic is a very good tool for that work.