Today I had the opportunity to actually get ONE round of 17 Fireball..Remington factory loaded stuff...

a Friend has built one, by rechambered a barrel on an Encore from 17 Mach 2, to the 17 Fireball.. he had picked up some factory ammo just to test.. He gave me one of the loaded rounds at my request.

I don't know about other folks, but I am one of those people, that I have to see a loaded round, and accept or reject the fact that it "looks right" or doesn't...

Well, looking at the 17 Fireball it certainly looks right! Definitely is what I originally expected a 17 Varmint round to look like, a goal the 17 HMR never fulfilled....

and now, it comes down to securing one...

I have gotten away from the usual factory purchasing of a firearm anymore ( although I do lust after the Model 7 Predator and the Model 10 Savage predators...)I am more into rebarreling something, and building the rifle the way that I think it should be to fit my needs...

I have to decide if this is going to go on a Ruger or Remington Action.. .but I see a 20 inch barrel, in a heavy magnum or light varmint contour.. a walking varminter, in the predator size, without the camo paint job...

scope is going to be a 3 x 9 or 4 x 12 Leupold with a mil dot set up put in it...that should do for the 300 yds and under that the rifle would be intended for...

I can see accumulating a few more rifle configurations chambered for this round as the brass becomes more available...a barrel for a regular Model 77 VT Ruger ( or the Model 700 which I have several of)....

another thought, was after seeing a 17 Mach 2, redone in a contender or Encore ( I profess to not knowing the difference).. I was thinking how nifty a New England Single shot in 17 HMR rechambered would be ( I know that supposedly there is some difference in the firing pin location on the rim fires vs the centerfires... but if nothing else, the 17 HMR barrel can be remounted on a centerfire frame and rechambered)....

from a lot of info available on load data for the 221 Fireball, I bet one can work with that info and extrapulate load data for the fireball to equal everything down to the 17 mach 2 and the HMR.. all the way to the 17 Fireball's capability...

I have to admit.. this round just looks right.. something the 17 HMR never did....

now hopefully some of those bullets that they are loading on the 17 HMRs will become available to the handloaders.. like say the 20 grain TNT....

I am still lusting over that 17 Mach 4, on a model 70 action with a 26 inch stainless barrel, over at a local gunshop.. that they want way too much money for....

but ya know... if this works out, I can make a switch barrel for a model 70 in 22.250 I have already.. just borrow that bolt out of the 223 Featherweight when a fireball barrel is put on it...

the last couple of fads never floated my boat.. the 17 HMR and the 204 Ruger.. neither did it for me....

but I have to admit, the 17 Fireball does.. it is an efficient high performance little cartridge.. and it just looks right!

........................... ( prairie dog)

cheers
seafire

Don't know about the .17, but I have a CZ in .221 Fireball that is the cat's a$$. I have several Hornets, Triple Deuce, 22.250, and a .243 in the safe and I will have to say the Hornet and the Fireball see the most action.

Took me a while to find a load for the .221 but it was worth it. I have an old 6x24 Bausch and Lomb on it and you can watch the bullet dismember crows and groundhogs.

Try the Hornady 20 grain V-max.
My 17 Mach IV thrives on this pill. I throttle it back a little. 3800 fps. is very accurate in my rifle. It will easly run over 4000 fps. .
I have shot PDs out to 250 yds effectively with the 20 grainer.

muck

Now yer coming round .
Remington did it's classic on the .221 Fire Ball in 2002 and there are some of those floating around that would make a dandy .17 Fireball. Get someone to use a reamer that gets rid of a bunch of throat and you'll be a lot happier!
As to the 20 grain bullet Remington uses do you suppose they really make it or have Hornady make it for em? .
Seafire this is gonna look like a windy and hand to the Lord it isn't!
I bought a VSF Remington (certainly not a walk around piece). I then sent it to Greg Tannel of Gre'Tan Rifles to single point the action and double sleeve the bolt along with a custom minimum spec zero free-bore rechambering of the factory barrel.
As there is no bulk brass released yet I've been working my way through some factory ammo to get some. Upon my rifles return from Greg I grabbed some of that factory ammo and hit the range. This is the best of the 100 yard groups fired that day. In fact that is a 6 shot cause I pulled one right. "Honest"!!!



That's a 20 grain V-Max next to it.
If you do go Remington factory the barrel is a 1 in 9 and should do real well with Hornady's 25 grain V-Max at about 3,800ish FPS. I like the 25's at 3,800ish better than the 20's at 4,000ish personally.
Brass is supposed to be cut loose this summer or with the right dies you can make it out of .222 or .223 brass.
Welcome to the wonderful world of wildcatting .

Actually Doug,

I am pretty sure, I am going to spin a barrel off of a standard Ruger 77 Mk 2 in a Stainless Finish..

I built a 22.250 with a 24 inch heavy magnum contour barrel and a fast twist....

I was looking to do the same for the 17 FB, but with a 20 inch heavy magnum contour for a walking varminter...this rifle already now has a 204 barrel that will also be part of its switch barrel 'library'..

if I warm up to the round after trying her out, I will probably do another barrel to do a switch barrel on a Ruger VT or a Rem VLS.. haven't decided which yet, or maybe go with one on a Savage Action.....

I'm nor buying a whole new rifle, just putting a barrel on something I already own...got the set up to switch barrels and set head space here in the shop...

of course the down side of this, is that a 17 HMR in a Ruger 77/17 is getting thrown out to a new home...

Seafire if your going to try to use a take off barrel in .17 cal I'd sure stay away from the "older" .17 Rem barrels as that's where all the bad .17 cal press started. The newer barrel technology is significantly improved. For example that picture I posted while not a factory chamber and in on a completely accurized VSF Remington it is a factory barrel and even factory ammo for criminy sakes. (Of course Greg Tannel is an accuracy master!). That aside, after a little break-in it cleans like a dream and shoots like a Shilen or Hart.
Maybe call some top smiths and see if they have any take off barrels.
Wait a while and I'd be surprised if you don't see a CZ 527 in .17 Fire Ball, sure would be a great match.
By the way, I'm sure not implying ya gotta get a custom rifle to have fun and take advantage of this round. In fact here's a couple pics of groups shot before it's trip to the gun doc.







All but one a those pics is with factory ammo to boot. The top one is with the factory rifle and 25 grain V-Max's and outside to outside measures a .551 which breaks down to a .386 center to center.
That's not a bunch of bragging that's just to show how things have changed in the .17 caliber world since tales of old about the curse of the .17s. (course for me personally the .17Fireball or .17MachIV are about as big a case capacity and as much performance as I'm looking for in a .17 cal). And perform they do! both my MachIV and .17 Fire Ball get 3,850ish out of the 25 grain V-Max regularly. Feeding the 25 V-Max at 3,800fps even into the ballistics program is an eye opener. I'll post it here for ya up to 500 yards. Pay special attention to wind drift and delivered energy and drop.

Load Data
~~~~~~~~~

Name: .17 Fire Ball with a 25 grain V-Max at 3,800fps
Ballistic Coeff: 0.239
Bullet Weight: 25
Velocity: 3800
Target Distance: 250
Scope Height: 1.500
Temperature: 70
Altitude: 4500

Ballistic Data
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Range Elevation Velocity Energy ETA Drop Max Y 10mph Wind Deflect
0 yds -1.50 in 3800 fps 802 fpe 0.000 sec 0.00 in -1.50 in 0.00 in
25 yds -0.52 in 3699 fps 759 fpe 0.020 sec 0.08 in -0.58 in 0.05 in
50 yds 0.30 in 3600 fps 719 fpe 0.041 sec 0.31 in -0.52 in 0.20 in
75 yds 0.96 in 3503 fps 681 fpe 0.062 sec 0.71 in -0.42 in 0.43 in
100 yds 1.44 in 3409 fps 645 fpe 0.083 sec 1.29 in -0.26 in 0.77 in
125 yds 1.73 in 3317 fps 611 fpe 0.106 sec 2.06 in -0.06 in 1.23 in
150 yds 1.82 in 3227 fps 578 fpe 0.129 sec 3.03 in 0.20 in 1.80 in
175 yds 1.70 in 3139 fps 547 fpe 0.152 sec 4.20 in 0.53 in 2.48 in
200 yds 1.37 in 3052 fps 517 fpe 0.176 sec 5.59 in 0.91 in 3.27 in
225 yds 0.81 in 2968 fps 489 fpe 0.201 sec 7.22 in 1.37 in 4.17 in
250 yds 0.00 in 2885 fps 462 fpe 0.227 sec 9.08 in 1.90 in 5.19 in
275 yds -1.08 in 2803 fps 436 fpe 0.253 sec 11.22 in 2.52 in 6.37 in
300 yds -2.44 in 2723 fps 412 fpe 0.281 sec 13.63 in 3.22 in 7.69 in
325 yds -4.09 in 2645 fps 388 fpe 0.309 sec 16.34 in 4.03 in 9.15 in
350 yds -6.04 in 2567 fps 366 fpe 0.337 sec 19.35 in 4.93 in 10.74 in
375 yds -8.32 in 2491 fps 345 fpe 0.367 sec 22.70 in 5.95 in 12.48 in
400 yds -10.92 in 2417 fps 324 fpe 0.397 sec 26.35 in 7.07 in 14.34 in
425 yds -13.92 in 2343 fps 305 fpe 0.429 sec 30.41 in 8.33 in 16.41 in
450 yds -17.34 in 2271 fps 286 fpe 0.461 sec 34.89 in 9.75 in 18.68 in
475 yds -21.20 in 2201 fps 269 fpe 0.495 sec 39.80 in 11.31 in 21.14 in
500 yds -25.49 in 2131 fps 252 fpe 0.530 sec 45.16 in 13.04 in 23.78 in

That's my load data for a slightly lessend load in my MachIV or Fire Ball. Now compare it to the same dats as my working load for my .223 with a 40 grainer.

Load Data
~~~~~~~~~

Name: .223 Remington with 40 gran V-Max at 3,680
Ballistic Coeff: 0.200
Bullet Weight: 40
Velocity: 3680
Target Distance: 250
Scope Height: 1.500
Temperature: 70
Altitude: 4500

Ballistic Data
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Range Elevation Velocity Energy ETA Drop Max Y 10mph Wind Deflect
0 yds -1.50 in 3680 fps 1203 fpe 0.000 sec 0.00 in -1.50 in -0.00 in
25 yds -0.42 in 3563 fps 1127 fpe 0.021 sec 0.08 in -0.58 in 0.06 in
50 yds 0.49 in 3449 fps 1056 fpe 0.042 sec 0.33 in -0.51 in 0.23 in
75 yds 1.21 in 3338 fps 989 fpe 0.064 sec 0.77 in -0.40 in 0.53 in
100 yds 1.74 in 3230 fps 926 fpe 0.087 sec 1.40 in -0.23 in 0.97 in
125 yds 2.06 in 3124 fps 867 fpe 0.111 sec 2.24 in -0.00 in 1.55 in
150 yds 2.16 in 3022 fps 811 fpe 0.135 sec 3.30 in 0.29 in 2.25 in
175 yds 2.03 in 2921 fps 758 fpe 0.160 sec 4.59 in 0.65 in 3.09 in
200 yds 1.63 in 2823 fps 708 fpe 0.186 sec 6.15 in 1.09 in 4.10 in
225 yds 0.96 in 2728 fps 661 fpe 0.213 sec 7.98 in 1.61 in 5.29 in
250 yds 0.00 in 2634 fps 616 fpe 0.242 sec 10.10 in 2.23 in 6.64 in
275 yds -1.26 in 2542 fps 574 fpe 0.270 sec 12.53 in 2.95 in 8.14 in
300 yds -2.86 in 2452 fps 534 fpe 0.300 sec 15.28 in 3.79 in 9.82 in
325 yds -4.81 in 2363 fps 496 fpe 0.331 sec 18.40 in 4.74 in 11.70 in
350 yds -7.18 in 2277 fps 461 fpe 0.364 sec 21.92 in 5.83 in 13.82 in
375 yds -9.98 in 2193 fps 427 fpe 0.398 sec 25.88 in 7.08 in 16.17 in
400 yds -13.23 in 2110 fps 395 fpe 0.433 sec 30.29 in 8.49 in 18.74 in
425 yds -16.93 in 2029 fps 365 fpe 0.469 sec 35.15 in 10.07 in 21.50 in
450 yds -21.15 in 1949 fps 337 fpe 0.506 sec 40.53 in 11.85 in 24.51 in
475 yds -25.93 in 1871 fps 311 fpe 0.545 sec 46.48 in 13.84 in 27.78 in
500 yds -31.44 in 1796 fps 287 fpe 0.586 sec 53.15 in 16.10 in 31.43 in

My point has always been that when the open minded like yourself take an honest look at ballistics the newer technology .17's and .20's have a lot to offer.
I'm not talking vicious rumor, gossip, hearsay and old wives tales passed down from one guy that hasn't tried it to another. Nor am I saying the sub .22's win in all circumstance cause they most certainly do not!...BUT...For what I do which is primarily p-dogs, gophers, rock chucks and an occasional badger or fox they are sure hard to beat. Did I mention that I was using 17.3ish grains of powder in the Fire Ball and 27.5 grain in the .223?

Look at my personal .223 and .17MachIV/Fire Ball loads off the chart. At 500 yards with both sighted in at 250 yards the .17 has 5.95 inches less drop, the .223 has 35 ft lbs more energy and in a 10 mile an hour cross breeze the .17 drifts 7.65 inches "less" than the 40 grain .223.
None of that is a huge deal but how many of the old .17 haters will finally accept the 25 grain .17 cal is moved 7.65 inches "Less" than a 40 grain .223 at 500? Are either of those loads 500 yard loads? Not a chance but I have taken and seen taken a large number of p-dogs at over 500 with a .17.
Glad your keeping an open mind, you might just get this handled and find a whole new world of rat spreading fun! There is truly something special about churning a gopher inside out and spreading him over a 5 ft circle and seeing every bit of it in the scope.
Good luck seafire, keep us posted!

Doug,

I was going to get a barrel from ER Shaw for this project.. they are chambering the 17 Fireball...and it is like only $170.00 for one threaded and chambered....

I can finish the final head spacing locally...

But I will be contacting you for my GoTo point for info....

Seafire,

Let me know how it goes, am interested in one myself as a spotlight gun for 'roos.

I have only tryed loading the Hornady 25 Gr Spire HP bullet. My best reload is with 19.0 Gr of Benchmark powder in Rem cases with Fed 205M primers. The average bullet MV is 3,880 ft/sec. The 100 yard five shot group size is around .6 inch. My 17 Fireball is a Remington 700 CDL SF Limited Ed with a Leupold 6-18 X scope. I have adjusted the X Mark Pro trigger pull down to 2 3/4 pounds and free floated the barrel. Late last fall I shot about 50 prairie dogs using the 20 Gr factory ammo. The shots were between 125 and 280 yards. I like the low muzzle blast and I could see the prairie dogs being hit with the scope set at 18X..