I picked up an older M700 30-06 with the idea of re-barrel project. Thinking about a hunting rifle for deer size game, something fairly flat shooting. I know the performance gain is small with this AI but I just like the idea. Who shoots one of these and what do you think?
Thanks!

The 25-06 already has enough powder capacity...increasing to AI will only decrease barrel life..increase heat & muzzle flash/jump...take a look at the 6XC (6mm/250)...much more effiecient cartridge....brass/dies available....very good bullet selection...same head size...a very accurate cartidge...

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The 25-06 already has enough powder capacity...increasing to AI will only decrease barrel life

+1
I built my own 25-06 wildcat version. A little more capacity than the 25Gibbs around 10-11% over the std 25-06. I saw very little gain. I also made the mistake of rechambering a 24" barrel. I didn't keep it.

If you go with the 25-06AI then I would sure go with a longer barrel.

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25--06 AI ?

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what do you think?

The "term" "AI" should be stricken from the face of the shooting fields. It's among the biggest jokes ever played on the shooting public.

A person would be far better off (If he wants something special) to have a custom reamer ground to match your resizing die dimensions plus a few thou of clearance and use it to chamber a barrel and then use a full length sized case from your own sizing dies as a head space gauge.

In this manner he has a case and chamber that allows the very minimum of case expansion in the chamber for extremely long case life......(if that's important to you).....and what do we gain by doing this?.....nothing....same as the AI work!.....but then we have a salvageable chamber that can be reworked when one discovers what a dumb idea it was to do the custom work in the first place!

The savings in brass extremely minimal.

If it is AI that intrigues you do a 257Roberts AI. The long action will give you the room to experiment with OAL and will let you use the heavier bullets. Just my $.02!
GOOD LUCK and GOOD SHOOTING!!!

I'm a quarter bore fan. I shoot .257 Weatherby, .25-06 Remington, 25 wssm, and 257 Roberts AI. Friends of mine have the 25 STW.

Of course with the Ackley Improved you can shoot standard ammo. You might want to try the .30-06 AI for starters loaded with the 125 grain Ballistic Tip. Flat shooting and devestating on deer size game.

There is also the 257 Hawk. An improved 280 case necked down. Z-Hat does the conversions and builds. Its a little screamer of a round. Just make sure if you're doing any hot smallbore and want all the speed possible, don't go short on the barrel. 24" MIN, and honestly I'd probably go 26 or 27 to get the most out of the case capacity and slow burning powders

oh the case looks better improved. but if u want power go the 257weatherby!

I own and shoot the 7x57AI and the 06 AI and they definately "IMPROVE" the parent cartridge, the 7mm more so than the 06. If you want a 25-06 AI I say go for it, you will gain enough velocity to make it well worth it, your brass will not need to be trimmed as often, you can fire factory ammo and eject AI brass. I wouldn't put much worth in opinions of some x-purt off the net just because he spends his days spouting off through a keyboard INSTEAD of reloading and shooting. This chart was copied /pasted from 4D reamer site and it rings true to my own findings of reloading the two AI cartridges I own when loaded to equal pressures as determined by pressure ring expansion, my rifles were new barrels chambered in the parent cartridge, tested, then set back and reamed AI. I always like to look at the number of posts, if an exuberant amount, LOOK OUT-A TALKER/NOT A DO'ER self appointented x-purt BS er-now I've got to go shooting. ACKLEY IMPROVED CARTRIDGE COMPARISONS



Factory Cartridge Bullet Weight (grs.) Factory Velocity (fps) Ackley Velocity (fps) % Increase
1 25-35 WCF 117 2230 2800 25.6
2 30-40 Krag 180 2430 2900 19.3
3 250 Savage 100 2820 3300 17.0
4 6.5x55 Swedish 140 2550 2900 13.7
5 30-30 WCF 150 2390 2700 12.9
6 7x57mm Mauser 145 2660 3000 12.8
7 300 H&H 180 2880 3200 11.1
8 257 Roberts 117 2650 2900 9.4
9 270 Win. 150 2850 3100 8.8
10 25-06 Rem. 100 3230 3500 8.4
11 375 H&H 300 2530 2740 8.3
12 243 Win. 100 2960 3200 8.1
13 270 Win. 130 3060 3300 7.8
14 280 Rem. 140 3000 3230 7.7
15 30-06 Springfield 180 2700 2900 7.4
16 30-06 Springfield 150 2910 3100 6.5
17 219 Zipper 55 3300 3500 6.0
18 6mm Rem. 75 3400 3600 5.9
19 220 Swift 50 3870 4100 5.9
20 7mm-08 Rem. 140 2860 3030 5.9
21 375 H&H 270 2690 2830 5.2
22 22-250 Rem. 55 3680 3850 4.6

I say go for it. If you're going through the cost of rebarreling anyway, you're really not saving anything by staying with the standard 25-06, other than cheaper dies. I am exceptionally happy with my 25-06 Ackley, and wouldn't trade it for the world. You will come fairly close to 257 Weatherby ballistics (I shoot 100 grain bullets @ 3500, Weatherby factory says 3603) but brass will be way cheaper. Just as swheeler so nicely put it - build it, shoot it, enjoy it.

Reaming your chamber out to an improved version never fails to produce a signficant increase in velocity -- as long as you don't mind a signficant increase in pressure also . The desire of owners of "improved" chambers to achieve higher velocity almost always results in their simply adding more powder until they get what they want/expected.

The added case capacity DOES provide a slight improvement potential in velocity at the same pressure, but it is very marginal in a cartridge like the .25/06. As it is in factory configuration, the .25/06 requires a VERY slow powder for optimal velocity. I use IMR 7828 with 115 bullets in mine. Any cartride that ALREADY requires a powder that slow will show very little gain from "improvement". Realisticly, you can look for 25-40 fps at similar pressures from a .25-06 AI. This comes at the expense of a couple of grains more powder, a little more muzzle blast, and whatever the rechambering job cost you. The .25-06 AI is not a "bad" cartridge, it's just typically not worth the trouble over the original.

The reason that a .257 ROberts AI show significant advantage over the factory round is that (1) the case gains a larger percentage in volume compared to the improved .25/06 case, (2) the factory .257 case is further from the "bore capacity" than the larger .25-06, and (3) people simply load the improved case a lot hotter than they are willing to load the factory case, for whatever irrational reason.

I've got no problem with "improving" cases, especially when the case is somewhat below bore capacity or when you are custom chambering to begin with and might as well use the more volume-efficient design. Since you're proposing to replace the barrel, the improved chamber costs you nothing. Go ahead if you wish (I might do so myself), but don't expect miracles. I find a compromise of 25" on the barrel makes for a sporter that isn't too clunky and provides plenty of barrel length for close to optimal velocities.

Something a guy always has to keep in mind when comparing cartridges is the SAAAMI pressures of said cartridge. The 257 Roberts is loaded at a lowly 54000 psi, so if a guy compares factory loads to his hot AI reloads, the difference in velocity will be dramatic. The 25-06 is loaded at 63000 PSI from the factory, so this difference alone contributes a great deal to why people claim the 257 Bob Improved is such a great round. Basically they are just loading way hotter than factory. There is no free lunch with AI rounds, but the efficiency bit stll holds true, as is shown by the new SMc rounds. I still say if you're going to rebarrel the rifle anyway, go with the Ackley 25-06. Why not? Besides, that sexy AI cartridge gets all the babes.

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The "term" "AI" should be stricken from the face of the shooting fields. It's among the biggest jokes ever played on the shooting public.

Haha! I feel quite the same way, but I've never railed against it like that. I've expressed my opinion to certain members of my family (they know who they are) after they built a 280AI. Man, what a pain in the ass for negligible performance gains!

I know a few folks that have them for long range deer rifles and they seem fairly fond of the round. They're claiming performance midway between the 25-06 and 257 Weatherby. The upside is your barrel should last a bit longer than with a 257 Wetherby, and you'll get more rounds in the magazine.

The downside of the ackley is the nearly straight case doesn't feed as smoothly from the action. Also as noted, most ackley speed gains are due to running higher pressure. But that raises an interesting question. Is a -06 based case running higher pressures putting more stress on an action than the larger dia belted mag case?

I don't think you can go wrong with either the std 25-06 or the ackley version. It just depends on if you want to pay more for reloading dies, want to fireform brass, and just want something different. Either round with a good bullet will take deer size game out to 600 yds and then some.

I am a fan of the AI but only in the 280AI version. Not because of the increase in speed, but because the accuracy goods shine on it. on the other hand the 25-06 ai I have has never done nothing more for me than my standard 25-06. If you really want to have one though I have a douglas barrel cut and chambered for a rem 700 in 25-06 ai that I will give you. That is my opion on the caliber.

Well I do really want one.

Well then you should really have one as there is not many reasons better than that.
Plus it will be fun, you will feel better armed, and yes you will get a baby 257 Whetherby.
Personally though I would go with the 25Gibbs improved and a 26 inch barrel.
But either one works.

He'll probably never read this but if you want a nice deer gun, that's a bit unusual, go with a 25-308, often called a 25-Souper.

I like the idea of the 25 Souper but this rifle is a long action.

zdrive are you really going to send me that barrel?

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Originally posted by Nimrod308:
I like the idea of the 25 Souper but this rifle is a long action.

Using a long action would allow you to really seat the heavier 117 and 120gr bullets out farther without eating up powder capacity and get some gains. Since its a wildcat, you can take it even one step farther and go for a 25 humdinger. Its a blown out and basically "AI" 25 Souper. 40deg shoulder, very minimal taper. Same would apply with a 257 Bob AI, and with its intermediate case length, the standard length action would work out perfect. And, the 257 AI dies/reamers are very available. Probably hard pressed to find a decent gunsmith who didnt carry that reamer.

There isn't "any improving" left to do on GOD'S chosen chambering............25-06!! Just shoot it the way it was intended! GHD........pastor at the church of 25-06!

Nimrod

barrel is in route to north alabama. good luck I hope it works out for you.

Hey zdrive, got the barrel today. It's exactly what I wanted. I'll get started with the project and keep you posted. Are you looking for anything I might have? I owe you! Thanks again.

Nimrod

All that you owe me is to enjoy your wildcat. People who own these type of guns show deep cometments and education to the shooting sports, and belive me we need more of us.

chad

i really like my 25-06

but what about a 25-284?

Nim,

Please keep us updated on the progress of your project!