Why:

I had very good results with two pre-WWII cartridges. The .220 Swift in a Remington 700 Classic and the .218 Bee in a Ruger No.1S. I was aware of the 250 Savage which is also an old design, but it did not look spectacular on paper. Brass is always difficult to find however 22-250 brass can be necked up with a tapered expanding ball. Projectiles, primers and suitable powders are everywhere due to the popularity of the 25-06 (especially in the outback, west of where I live) and the older .303-25.

The opposition:

My B.I.L. has an uber accurate Churchil (Mauser '98) .243W which with 43 grains of 2209 and Nosler 95 BT's shoots like a laser beam (despite never had a bore clean in its life). The problem was, it had a 22" barrel and the muzzle blast and flash made it almost unuseable when spotlighting. Any night vision was immediately eliminated once a round was sent off. You lost the sight picture and everything within a kilometer+ knew you were out.

I still needed a larger cartridge for culling pests in the 25-30kg+ class but the .243W was not for me.

My son has a .243W Parker Hale Safari Deluxe Mauser '98, now on its third barrel, finally a pre-chambered Lothar Walther 23" long. He has taken it to Africa for small plains game up to Impala (Fallow) in size and made consistant kills out to 300 paces with it. The ballistics with 100 grainers are great for the feral camel culling we do.

Rifle One:

Sporterized Mauser '98 ex-mil. Sporterized stock, nil bedding or magazine changes and factory trigger. Barrel was a #4 Tobler, 24" long with a pathetic blue job. I shot hundreds of animals with this rifle and numerous scopes, however it was never quite accurate enough for long shots. Reliable feeding was random, however it did the job for many years.

This is the stock (with my in-the-white 7x57 sitting in it) but you get the idea.



A thumbhole Boyds stock and bedding job did not improve accuracy significantly.



So ...... it was off for a full blown custom

Rifle Two:

Full blown custom by my gunsmith Tony Small. Custom ordered 24" Lothar Walther barrel blank, 1 in 10" chambered by Tony with the throat lengthened 0.035". Queensland Maple stock in old english style. Shortened magazine well, Recknagel trigger and custom butter-knife bolt handle. This feeds and cycles like hot butter. The 100 grain weight did not shoot as well as I wanted however the Nosler 85 BT shoots under 1" at 100 yards. I have put it in the back of the safe as it is too nice to take to the outback.



Rifle Three:

Nirvana. Factory Savage Model 14 with 22"  factory barrel with again, a 1 in 10" twist. Shoots 85 and 100 weights consistantly. The stock fits me well and there is very little muzzle flash or flip, even on a bi-pod. Muzzle blast is noticeable however, but I can put up with that. IMO a barrel length of 24" is ideal. Lower 30mm rings have arrived and will be fitted shortly. No modifications or improvements were needed. It is my third Savage and won't be my last.



Like my 7x57, the 250 Savage will not give you dominanting ballistics you can find on paper or over a chronograph or brag about. It is just one of those cartridges that gets the job done very well, with a minimum of fuss. Many rifles have come and gone but I have always had a 250 Savage. The cartridge has never been a problem, however I have been fussy with the rifles it has been chambered in.

As most of my shooting is around 75-150 yards and most Aussie game is 100 kg or less, I'd even go so far as to claim it is perfect for 99% of feral game shooting in Australia. I could easily take it to Africa for springbok or any of the smaller plains game.

Favourite ACCURACY loads. Usual caveats apply.

75 grain V-Max            38grns    2208 3,300 fps
85/87  anything           36.5grns 2208 3,030 fps
100  BT                   34grns    2208 2,800fps

The 100 load is the most versatile. In the Savage it shoots dead on at 175yards. 1" high at 100 and 1" low at 200yards.

Gidday

Nice rifles, I'm hopeful one day of coming across one of the modern short action 250's to compliment my Kurz (which are pretty elderly really).

Interesting how much the local shooting and game scene dictates such variation in approach to rifles and loads, here I only ever spotlight for small game with a .22 (other hunters do spotlight deer here) so the barrel length and muzzle flash issues you mention just don't figure - having said that my 250's have always had 22" barrels because we hunt a fair bit in the bush (forest to Yanks and Europeans)

Cheers
Foster

Very nice. I like the Savage 14 also. Luck of the draw got a nice piece of walnut .

Code4 I don't know what size animals you are spotlighting. I have done a bunch of spotlighting of jackrabbits and .22 centerfires using cast bullets do the trick. Can reach out about as far as the spotlight. Recoil, blast and flash is minimal.

I do like the 250 Savage(s), to my mind its big advantage (particularly for our game here in New Zealand) is its ability to throw 117/120 gn bullets from such a short case at around 2750+ fps, something the 6mm’s can’t do, and while the 6.5’s can, until the 6.5x47L came along, they required a much longer action.

My dream “modern” 250 Savage would be built on one of the little Wetherby “Varmintmaster” actions, these are very strong, the minimum size and very nicely made. I don’t personally like the original stock style that Mr Wetherby favoured but that could be changed on a full blown custom rifle. Such a project wouldn’t be cheap though . . . . .

When you mention spotlighting animals and culling, are you taking strictly head-shots?

Spotlighting in Australia is a means of eliminating excess feral animals from (usually) a farmers property. This eliminates predation on the farmers livelihood. In fact an over population of introduced feral animals can result in prosecution of the farmer for not controlling them. Once you are known, they are more than happy for you to spotlight their property.

Spotlighting/Lamping it is not illegal in Australia and is a very common practise.

While head shots are prefered, ferals such as pigs and foxes are often 'on the move' so a standing head shot is not always practical. For feral and introduced species, which also pose a threat to our indigenous flora and fauna, the objective is ellimination and a downed animal is quickly dispatched with a second shot.

A good shot with an accurate rifle can usually headshoot anything with a centrefire .224 cal and the .223 is very popular here for that. I also used a Ruger No.1 in .218 Bee with W-W 46 HP's as it is very quiet and won't disturb what is 'over the hill'. For culling, the larger centrefires are more emphatic.

For Camels, headshots are mandatory and even then the rear of the head is prefered. I have seen camels shot in the side of the head with a 30-30 and walk away. The brain box is about the size of a large apple. For body shots IMO you require a .338WM as a minimum.

Random thoughts...

The wife and I have shot a lot of Texas deer with a 243. She has shot a few mule deer, and several antelope as well. I have seen several mule deer and several antelope shot with the 25/06.

I have shot several Texas deer with a 257 Weatherby Magnum.

I have NOT seen any difference in performance between these cartridges.
Yes, at extreme ranges, I could see the 257 Wby as being a little more effective...

So, on my personal experience and observation, I would think, and I believe, that the 250 Savage, and the 257 Roberts, would also be most excellent cartridges, in this power class as well...

I go back probably 55 or 60 years with the Savage mod. 99 in 250-3000..I shot a lot of deer in my cowboy youth, and 5 or 6 elk, My dad shot more than 50 elk with his..We used factory ammo back then and whatever was on the shelf at Shuddies Hdwe, mostly 117 gr. Rem or 100 Gr. WW Silvertips..

I still hunt deer with the 250-3000, mostly today with handloads..BTW WW and Rem still make brass, Huntingtons is a good bet for it...I have plenty of brass and a ton of loaded stuff. My old 250-3000 and early mod E will shoot 1/2 inch 3 shot groups all day long..

It has been my go to saddle gun for many years and I couldn't begin to tell you how many deer I and my family have killed with it, and I bet 99% one shot kills. I have and still do shoot a lot of coyotes behind my house with it. One of the few rifles I will never part with. I also have a couple of others.

Nice rifles in the Pics.

A few months ago, finally got around to having a decent brand 25 cal barrel installed in a 96 Swede military action. Twist in the barrel is 1" in 11" for my 250 Savage. The barrel twist limits me to less than 100 gr bullets.

Regardless, have a hoot shooting my 250 Savage at paper. Nice cartridge and I get some decent 100 yd groups with it.

Horse of a different color? Perhaps. My .250-3000 is on an 06 length action with a fast twist and deep throat ,taking advantage of heavier bullets without infringing on powder capacity. I always felt the Mod. 99 somewhat handicapped the cartridges potential. roger

I suspect the 99 Savage may "handicap" the 250 as to trajectory, but the rifle itself is a jewel in a saddle scabbard and the lack of recoil makes up for its for lack of a better word potential, but then the beauty of the cartridge itself is the marriage of a 100 gr. bullet at 2800 FPS, and that combo has proven itself in all the game fields of the world, not to mention a 87 gr. bullet at 3000 FPS and the recoil is a maidens caress as O'Connor often said..

If I wanted more trajectory, bullet, or power and was using a 06 action, then I would probably go with a 25-06 or perhaps a 257 Roberts and get even more potential..Just another approach Roger. Much like the wonderful 222 Rem, the 223, the 22-250 can out perform it all day long, but I still prefer the little duce.

Another aspect of the 250-3000 is I have never owned one that wasn't incredibly accurate. If I was limited to one deer, antelope rifle and could only hunt elk on rare ocassions that would be my pick of a caliber and rifle, however being a long time resident of Idaho and elk and now wolves are on my menu I have not hunted elk with the 250 in many years and wolf meat sucks!

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
I suspect the 99 Savage may "handicap" the 250 as to trajectory, but the rifle itself is a jewel in a saddle scabbard and the lack of recoil makes up for its for lack of a better word potential, but then the beauty of the cartridge itself is the marriage of a 100 gr. bullet at 2800 FPS, and that combo has proven itself in all the game fields of the world, not to mention a 87 gr. bullet at 3000 FPS and the recoil is a maidens caress as O'Connor often said..

If I wanted more trajectory, bullet, or power and was using a 06 action, then I would probably go with a 25-06 or perhaps a 257 Roberts and get even more potential..Just another approach Roger. Much like the wonderful 222 Rem, the 223, the 22-250 can out perform it all day long, but I still prefer the little duce.

Another aspect of the 250-3000 is I have never owned one that wasn't incredibly accurate. If I was limited to one deer, antelope rifle and could only hunt elk on rare ocassions that would be my pick of a caliber and rifle, however being a long time resident of Idaho and elk and now wolves are on my menu I have not hunted elk with the 250 in many years and wolf meat sucks!

10-4 Ray, My favorite scabbard rifle was a sporterized 6.5 Carcano carbine 16 1/2 " barrel. roger

Yes sir, its sure nice to have nice little flat short rifle under your leg, especially after a 16 hour ride, and being able to keep your saddle center is a big deal with me, and my horse.

I've said this before and I'll say it again the 250 savage is margial at best. same as the 25-35 ray. I've got both and have killed with both. nobody has them anymore because there is much better available. a 308 is a much better saddle gun/

bbruce,
I have a mod. 99F Savage in .308 and I like it for sure and it is probably best for elk under most conditions but to say the 250 is marginal at best? I have to challange that.. Maybe so for most folks especially for elk, but its always worked for me and members of my family and dad killed over 50 elk with his 250-3000, I wouldn't call that marginal, just good hunting and careful shooting..For deer the 250 is par excellent, I can't think of a better round..but to each his own, use what works for ya..Same for the 25-35 Win. which I will still use for deer on ocassion, but not for elk where I have been hunting recently, in the black timber swamps of Idaho where the big bulls live to many shots are offered close and going away from you and for that I use a .338 Win., 9.3x62 or even a .375 H&H, all with heavy bullets. I wouldn't recommend a .308 for this place, maybe a 30-06 with 200 gr. Nosler would be my minimum choice..

If I could go back in time and had my druthers, for a western hunting rifle I would opt for a light weight short slide action .250-3000 with a 20" barrel. The magazine would accommodate a 2.7" COAL with a twist fast enough to handle 120gr.+ bullets. The for-end would be as small as practical.
Kind of a mini 760.
Just dreaming. roger

Just piling on . . . I love all Savage M99s, and especially the 250-3000! Terrific Pronghorn and deer rifle. Many of even the old ones like mine still shoot really well.

quote:

Originally posted by bbruce:
I've said this before and I'll say it again the 250 savage is margial at best. same as the 25-35 ray. I've got both and have killed with both. nobody has them anymore because there is much better available. a 308 is a much better saddle gun/

I agree with this!

Tiny cartridges such as the little 250 Sav. are at the minimum level of effect on deer size game. Not only that but the 250s is snake bit by the 1-14" twist the early ones had.

Where I hunt in the hills of Northern NE it's not easy to get a shot a a legal deer. When one is in sight a quick shot even if the deer is running gets the game.

I can use much better and more effective cartridges so I do.

Here's my little 250-3000, a 1938 Savage 99 take-down. It has a period Carl Zeiss mounted in claw mounts. Must have been owned by a European at the time. It's remarkable how clear and crisp the optics are, despite when it was made. As usual, I have it for sale as I look to scratch my Sharps BPCR itch :-)

$1,175 shipped

Ever notice the folks that condem the "marginal" cartridges such as the 250-3000 have in most cases never used them, and many make a point by claiming their use?? Makes one wonder at least! ...Anybody that thinks the 250 is marginal on deer and antelope is nuts! It has always killed, for me, as well as my 06 or 270 on the lighter animals. I can say about the same with the 30-06 , it kills as well as the 7 mag or 300 mag within 350 yards or so. The jaded 25-35 is a fantastic killer of deer up to a 100 yards or so..I recently read and article by Ganyana about the use of lighter rifles with todays better bullets and I would have thought everyone was aware of this, but maybe not.

The secret to using lighter calibers is the ability to know your shooting abilities and have the where to fore to pass up shots that are less than desirable, to use premium bullets and most of all, do your hunting before your shooting. Isn't that what its all about? If not then archery and muzzle loading hunts should be illegal!!

I have used the 250 Savage on deer for years and I would be on the side that says it is a great deer cartridge. Proper shot placement is the key with any cartridge on any game.

Ray,
What is your preferred Wolf cartridge? By the way, I'm having a 250 Savage made up for a CVA Apex single shot. Should be much fun to carry.

My favorite wolf cartridge is whatever I have in my hands when I see one! So far that's one at a half mile away. Never have shot at one. I am talking about the big Alaskan wolves that the liberal morons and equally stupid Fed. Fish and Game Dept dropped off in Idaho.

After years of court battles Idaho opened season on wolves, but wolves like Coyotes and cockroaches cannot be controlled once they are established. Our elk herds are for lack of a better word, destroyed, and they are working on the deer, bear and Mt. Lions..They chase bear off the baits during the spring hunts, They are killing the Lions up North, and they are working over the deer/elk in their winter feed grounds.

The hunting in Idaho is terrible these days where once it was awesome. When the lights go out in your tent the sound of hunting wolves is common, it's a neat sound and better than music, but you pay dearly for it, it replaced the bugling bulls of the Selway. Nothing is being done about it with the Obama administration in charge. The experts running the show wouldn't know a wolf from a roadrunner, and they are mostly anti hunting. They base it all on emotion as opposed to good game practices.

I hope we can recover from this abortion of an administration and the insane amount of overreach at the hands of agencies.

I also, but so much damage has been done one wonders if its fixable...I've decided that liberalism is a cancer that ravages the everyone of our rights to govern ourselves and as opposed to death as with cancer we become a dictatorship, and that's worse than death. We are losing more and more freedoms each week, perhaps daily..go figue!

Anyone who says the 250 savage is marginal doesn't have a clue. My model 99' has the 1-14' twist rate and it shoots short 100gr bullets just fine(i.e. 100gr silver tip or 100gr speer hot core) and any animal of the deer sized class will die just as effectively as any other cartridge with a WELL PLACED SHOT...Imagine

I have used the little Savage as well as other .25s of similar power for three decades and with proper bullets they kill deer-sized game well. But I am under no delusions about their capabilities, the .270 is a more versatile cartridge on most all counts, and not just at long range either. For raking shots at running game the 150-grain bullet is simply more effective than a 100 or 120 out of a little .25. We talk about "bullet placement" but more potent cartridges are simply more likely to harvest game when we made a marginal shot - and any experienced hunter who has taken a large number of game yet claims to only make perfect shots is....less than honest.

I still use the .250 on hunts where long shots are not needed or when hunting from a stand. But I am aware that when still hunting I will not get perfect shots at skittish game and if I want to take an animal I will need to take the less than perfect shot. A more potent cartridge than the .250 increases my odds for having venison in the freezer.


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