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I posted the majority of this on the Air Rifle Board and as an after-thought realized it might get some discussion started for this Summer Off-Season right here. Might even get some disagreements among "some of" you all.  To kick things off(so people can whine, snivel and complain), I'm sure most of you forgot , I'm not a fan of using 22Cal Centerfires on Deer. Way too much opportunity for serious Under Kill.  For those of you who consider 50# Deer as takers, I can understand why you would consider a 223Rem - "Adequate".  Then I happened upon the below and figured you all might get a few grins from it. Should make the day for all you folks who believe "shot placement is everything", but of course that is still Wrong-O! ----- I was flipping through my NRA American Hunter and spotted a Gammo ad for "The Beast". Noticed the high velocity which didn't surprise me all that much since they are using the Alloy Pellets to reduce the Weight and allow the Velocities to increase. Then over on the right page(double page ad), up in the corner I notice what appears to be a Hog and decide it must be a small Javalina, Piccary(however you spell them). Shook my head and laughed to myself at the thought of "me" going Hog Hunting with a Pellet Rifle. I have a perfectly adequate 444Mar and Mag revolvers for that sort of thing. Then I happened by the Hunter Extreme web site to just look around. Nice BIG ads for two styles of "The Beast" air rifle, 17cal and 22cal. They are right proud of them at $530, they are heavier than my regular Centerfires by a considerable amount, and they require 58# of cocking effort. Some kind of scope on them, maybe a BSA "Bartsche autograph" model? They also have a 3-D view of the Air Rifles which I enjoyed looking at. Just click on an air rifle among the list that you want to check out and look for a "3-D" button. However..., if you go to the link, wait and watch the little movie in the middle of the Home Page. To say I am as floored as the critter is a HUGE, MASSIVE, understatement. I watched it a couple of times and will probably do it again. Can't believe the Dog backed off after the shot, almost as if it was Gun Shy. But, I'd have lost a lot of money on that event "if" I was a wagering man. What do you all think? Are you all WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY Over-Kill with your 223Rems?????  | ||
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Nice way to get close and---get bit. Small calibre has been debated for eons. Look at P.O Ackley and his love of the 17 Mach IV and further back, Charles Newton and the .22HP, .22Newton and .250-3000. As I have said elsewhere, my Dad's hunting rifle was a .22 Hornet, head shots only, he took deer and hogs. One of my friends in East Texas has used a .221 for years, again,head shots. Used a .22 short when we were butchering on the farm--close head shots on hogs, cows. Know a man that killed a Bull Elephant with a 22 lr in the heart.( No,it is not a routine practice of his) All in all I'll still carry more gun with wild things that bite, particularly if up close and personal. DuggaBoye-O NRA-Life Whittington-Life TSRA-Life DRSS DSC HSC SCI | |||
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Duggaboye I agree for the most part a .22 Hornet makes a fine close range deer rifle, but in my old age I have moved up a bit in cal. to a little Browning M53 in 32-20...I suppose as I get even older and my eye sight deteriorates I'll have to go back to my Low Wall .22 Hornet because I can mount a scope on it and I can't on the M53 32-20.. hotcore I am so glad you are able to share yourself with us...  | |||
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I use my RWS pellet rifle to dispatch all kinds of pests. It doesn't match the 1600 FPS of the rifle in the video but then one ususlly don't have that type of shot presented either. Any way you look at it the (9-pound) air rifle is quite impressive but I'd far prefer a .22 LR over it for that shot. Frankly, I'm not sure what this has to do with shooting deer with a .224 caliber rifle. The practice of folks using their .220 Swift is ancient news as it's been done forever. Many actually claim it's their favorite deer rifle! At nine pounds this air rifle is too heavy to use as a small game rifle even though it carries impressive performance. It's best use is as a city dwellers pest control tool. You know: crats etc! | |||
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Well, you know, Low Wall, I carried my hornet around for it's lightweight handiness and the fact that I shot well with it so I developed a load that was actually quite impressive on feral goat. 55gr Hornady spire point at near 2700fps without excess pressure! It did take little fiddling around though. It actually put them down as quick as a 308! I'm talking DRT. Funny thing - those Hornady bullets did the identical damage to turkey at 220yds as a 308 (whatever bullet was used in it). Regards 303Guy | |||
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303Guy... 55gr Hornady in your Hornet? Heck I thought you would be shooting home brew PP boolits in it by now..  Actually my Low Wall doesn't have open sites so it isn't as handy as the little Browning lever action...I don't know if my Hornet twist is fast enough for a 55gr bullet..I'll have to check it out...What type of powder where you using? | |||
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My deer rifle is a 17 HMR, but for Elk I have moved up to the Harder hitting power of a 22 Win Mag... | |||
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Over kill on the Elk there seafire...you must enjoy recoil eh? I knew a fella when I lived in Ariz. that hunted Elk with his 17 Hornet T/C 10" handgun...He would sit under a tree, call it right up and shoot them between the lookers....Can't recall his name now but he lived in Gilbert and built beatiful stocked T/C carbines.. | |||
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Low Wall It's a standard 1 in 16 twist and the powder is Lil'Gun - magic stuff! I did cast some lead for my 223 many years ago - now that was an excersize in frustration! I still have a few and I did try them in the hornet but that was before paper patching. I would try it but casting such small boolits - mmmm ..... I don't know!  I also used 60gr Hornady spire points - they worked pretty good too. Harder hitting but slightly less range.Paper patching for the hornet.... mmmmm..... now you've started something!!!!! Regards 303Guy | |||
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You are correct, just because it's the Off-Season.Hey Low Wall, I really should have said "down-loaded 22Hornets" instead of 223Rems.  | |||
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Ha!...You just gave me an idea Hotcore..Down loads for the Hornet (using "BlueDot" of course)...Thanks... Now I have something to to keep me busy all weekend... 303Guy If anybody can PP the little .22's I bet it would be you...Perhaps using your "strip patched" method eh?..."Roll patching" those little pills I would think would be damd near impossible...You have been thinking way outside the box on this PP thing and it is a refreshing thing to see... I would say "have fun" but you are there... Now where in the heck did my mother hide my BlueDot | |||
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In the words of Ronald Reagan “there you go again” . This is an interesting twist on the subject. This could be a fun thread  as long as the . Looks like a few people are willing to help this time.  | |||
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You are wicked! I actually tried patching one of those tiny little midgets and actually got one right! After all that it was a loose fit in the hornet case mouth. Looking at that bullet form I was thinking of removing most of the lube groove ..... Then I thought, 224cal bullets don't actually cost that much! But hey, that didn't stop me before! Besides, what if it works? How cool would that be? Fun Thread Hot Core!  Regards 303Guy | |||
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Right. I did it. I paper patched a 224 bullet! Actually, it turned out to be quite easy. Meet the real beast!     Hee hee! Regards 303Guy | |||
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When she finds it, the charge for the Hornet with bullet weights in the 30 grain to 45 grain, you can start at 3 grains of Blue Dot and work up to a maz charge of 6 grains... use a small pistol primer.... but don't tell HOT CORE... he comes unglued when people do stuff like that.... he's always hiding and on the look out for stuff like that..  He'll tell ya all that is going to happen is:  and  While God will send down the angels for your soul.... well actually he sends down Aliens for it....  God doesn't like Blue Dot users anymore than Hot Core Does...    | |||
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I think Blue Dot might just be an ideal powder for thr hornet!  Regards 303Guy | |||
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I had an Uncle that shot deer the last 15 years of his life with a 22 Hornet and 40 gr Speer SP's. I loaded 500 rounds for him when he got the rifle, when he died he still had quite a few of those hornets left. And a freezer full of venison. I watched him shoot a buck under an apple tree, there was no mistaking the bullet clipped a rib going it, and broke a rib going out. That deer just took off and then dropped in about 20 feet. No the 22 hornet is not enough in my view, but for a skilled hunter who can place his shots right and is willing to pass on all but the perfect shot, then a 22 Hornet will do. | |||
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303 Guy Oh oh...here we go again!!..I still can't believe that you roll patched those little 22 cal. pills....How big of a boolit will your Hornet neck except?...are you getting any accuracy with the PP in your Hornet yet? I haven't shot cast in my .22's yet..Haven't got a clue as to which mold to buy...any advice? Seafire After years of pondering I figure that there is a better chance of aliens coming after my soul than a God...that is assuming that I have a soul.. Oh and thanks for the Hornet Blue Dot load.. I will be giving it a try once I find a .22 cal. mold...I bought a can of Blue Dot last summer based on your posts about it and James Calhoons dissertation "To BEE or Not to BEE" ...Haven't had time to try it out yet...Mosting working toward cast loads for my .35 Whelen, 8X57, .308 and a newly acquired Ruger #1 in .405 Win.. Still a lot of work to do... Hmmm?? Blue Dot in a .405 with a 420gr cast PP boolit? | |||
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Just figured it out - To BE Exploding rifles with Blue Dot or not to BE Exploding rifles with the correct Powder. ----- Since I "know" you all are only joking and would NEVER use a Blue Dot Down Load, I'll toss this out for you. Once upon a time, I tried firing Pellets in my 22Hornet with only Primer Power. Worked for 2-3 shots and then the Bore was so dirty the Pellet would not get out of the Barrel. Huuuummm. Started adding a small amount of WW-231. You could basically count the individual flakes. If you went over 1.25gr, it apparently blew the Skirt off the Crossman 22cal Pellet. Got some Promethius Pellets with a Nylon Skirt and (I think) a Zink insert. They would do a bit better, but were fairly expensive 25 years ago. I had to Size the Neck down without an Expander in the Die. Then put the Expander in and push it slightly into the Case Neck. This created a place for the Pellet to set and a narrowed Neck area below it so the Pellet would not slip on into the Case. That should keep you 22Hornet folks busy chasing Deer and Hogs with "Pellets", like in the video.   | |||
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I haven't shot for accuracy yet - just to see if the patch would go through the barrel! You know, Low Wall, you have started something! If I can get myself the correct mold and thin enough tracing paper, I think it might just work. I have always bee a heaby for caliber person - comes from listening to all the experienced African hunters - so I just automatically gravitated to the heaviest bullet the rifle would shoot and to my surprise, it shoots 60grainers! So, for cast, I am aiming for a 60gr straight shank seating section, tapering down to nose ogive. The biggets problem (aside from just not shooting straight) with those little boolits is casting them! They don't come out the mold, they don't fill out properly and so on. But, there is hope. I re-invented the wheel (again) and came up with a smooth sided, throat fitting boolit with surface lube. Now I plan to use the same style, but a shade smaller, for paper paching. But that boolit style with surface lube and a g/c might also be the ticket for plain casting. Oh, the heavier boolit is not longer than 'normal' so should stabilize as good as a j-word bullet. Regards 303Guy | |||
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Hah! Done that! Hee Hee! The trick is not to be shy about powder quantity. And to seet the pellet in a 'cross patch' and dip it in moltem wax-lube (or just plain wax). Somewhere I have pics of a comparison between a 22LR and a 22 pelleted hornet. Both penetration and hole size is greater with the pellet! I was unable to get any range results with that load - nothing reached the target! (The penetration tests were at the muzzle). For accuravy, I used a spent 22LR case as a measure for AR2205/H4227 and went up by 50%. Not too shabby but no quite one hole groups! Regards 303Guy | |||
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Hot Core...I can't speak for 303 Guy but I think I'll pass on pellets for pigs...esp .22 pellets.. | |||
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Well, if you're close enough .... I mean, if they didn't reach a target at 10m/yds, what chance have they got of penetrating a pig? (I wonder what happened to them?  )Regards 303Guy | |||
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Seafire2 At the recent stab and blast show locally I picked up some awesome elk loads for a pistol. I've tried them out in my Ruger Single Six and that Aguila Colibri with the smoking 20 grainer bullet is going to do some damage this fall on those Idaho elk. I've always wanted to take a big game animal with a pistol. I was pleased to see that the recoil was manageable and I could see bullet impact!!!! | |||
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I guess I'm just getting too old. Stupidity in nonesence out? What is being proved here?  rogerOld age is a high price to pay for maturity!!! Some never pay and some pay and never reap the reward. Wisdom comes with age! Sometimes age comes alone.. | |||
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bartsche, sometimes you fish for absurd posts by being absurd. But sometimes you need to make a direct statement. So let me start! The 22 may be adequate in some people’s minds, I find the argument of using a 22 caliber round on deer sized animals distasteful. The use of them shows little respect for their pray in my opinion. | |||
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It wasn't obvious guys, I was making response to H/C thread aimed at making fun of folks he thinks that use too small of a caliber on deer and elk..particularly targets when he thinks I hunt mainly with a 22 Hornet with 5.5 grains of Blue Dot in it.. I don't even own a 22 Hornet.... so I was ridiculing it via a post about using a 17 HMR for Deer and a 22 Win Mag on elk... usually for deer I am toting a 260 Rem, or a 6.5 x 55 or 7 x 57.... for Elk I am toting a 30/06, or 7 x 57 or 338/06 most of the time...and not loaded with Blue Dot, contrary to popular opinion... but some folks like to keep bantering others, so we just ride with it and take it in stride... and ridicule it back in suttle ways | |||
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I thought it was all just good humoured fun - this is after all, a fun post. It is still a 'for fun' thread, right? I have always liked the 6.5 Swede, for no other reason than that it 'looks' like such a well balanced cartridge. One day, I will have one! Well, yes. This I must agree on. That's my opinion. But this thread is a fun thread! Regards 303Guy | |||
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Yes indeed. No insults tossed and all in fun. I still can't believe the way the Hogs drop. Do you all think there is " ANY CHANCE " the film may have been edited to remove "wounded" Hogs? | |||
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Colour me bright "Flourescent Amazed"! Did you SEE him do it, or did he just tell you he did? I would have thought he would have to skin the elephant first to do that. Seems to me a lot of the books by the first white hunters in Africa commented on the trouble they had getting .450, .500, and even 8-bore rounds to even penetrate an elephant's hide with unjacketed lead bullets at about the same velocity as the .22 LR. Not saying it can't be done, but I AM amazed. My country gal's just a moonshiner's daughter, but I love her still. | |||
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A while back there was a guy that posted here " A buddy of mine shot an elk with his 17HMR." I asked him whether or not his buddy killed the elk. Never heard back from the guy.  | |||
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Was not there. Know someone that was. Know the shooter. Good enough for me. DuggaBoye-O NRA-Life Whittington-Life TSRA-Life DRSS DSC HSC SCI | |||
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