Im considering the 264 on a Mauser action and the 6.5 on a SA700. Please, these are definite so don't go elswhere. I'll use it for hunting. It'll have a 26" barrel. I'll shoot only 120-129gn bullets. If I need more I've got other guns. Which would you build and why? I see that each has one negative. One has a belt and the other is a wildcat. thanks capt david

I own a batch of 6.5 calibers and guns. Never built a 264 mag or a 6.5/06 or a 6.5 Rem Mag.

Got all the velocity and accuracy one can ask for in the 260, or 6.5 x 55 or the 6.5 x 57. The last two can be loaded to the spec of factory 264 ammo, and secondly the 6.5 mm bullets are so aerodynamically efficient and can penetrate like no tomorrow, so I would go with the 6.5 x 55 and call it a day.

If you needed bigger case capacity, I'd go with the 6.5/06, because of brass availability. the 6.5 x 284 is an okay cartridge, but it doesn't offer much over the 6.5 x 57 or 55 except slightly more velocity with a lot more powder.

With the 6.5 x 55 and the 6.5 x 57, I have chronographed 100 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips at 3500 fps out of 26 inch barrels.
The 264 use to advertise 3600 to 3700 and in reality chronographed at 3300 fps. I get a little better than that out of a 260.

125 and 129 grain bullets will give you 3000 fps,out of all the smaller cases, and then the 264 is suppose to give 3200 with the same. Look how much powder it wants to do so, and how little is gained in point blank range.

Take the smaller caliber and adjust your scope up two clicks and you are even.
Good luck
cheers and good shooting
seafire

6.5x55 a wildcat ??? Do you mean 6.5-284 ? It is now a standard. The best bullet for that caliber is 140 since with high ballistic coefficient and sectional density it holds velocity very well. What will you use it for ?

My mistake, I ment 6.5x284! I'm selling mw Swede to fund the deal! capt david

" One has a belt and the other is a wildcat."

OK ,I give up ---which one is the wildcat?????????? roger

Go for the 6.5 x 284. Very good brass available from Lapua & Hornady. It is the darling of the 1000 yard high power shooters so the bullets and dies are cheaper to buy, and made to very close tolerances.
JCN

Did you see I made a mistake, 6.5x284. Maybe I'm wrong, but I was under the impression that no one loads a 6.5x284

Technically, the 6.5-284 is a quasi-wildcat if built on a SA because the standardized version is designed for a LA - see the Norma or BH factory ammo - none have a prayer of functioning through a short action mag or throat. I say "quasi" because brass with the proper headstamp is easily acquired.

So what you are looking at is the 6.5-284 Win as opposed to the 6.5-284 Norma - the former has a SA throat and the latter has a LA throat. Anyway, make sure you iron this detail out before you have the chamber cut.

Anyway, I'd go with the 6.5-284 as it does have better brass and is capable of amazing accuracy, especially out of tuned 700 action. You may or may not have to have any rail work done, but you will lose a round in the mag over, say, a 260.

Anyway, good luck...

OK I'll be the guy to stick up for the 264 Win Mag (sort of). It doesn't reach its potential in factory rifles because it needs a 28" or longer barrel to really crank up the velocity. If you don't want to go that long, don't waste you money on the 264. If you can stand the long tube, it will walk away from any of of the cases mentioned above by a substantial margin, even when they have the same tube length. Find a 'smith that knows 264s and knows to throat the chamber for the standard one-diameter 264 bullet as Winchester used a partial bore-riding two diameter bullet and a reeallly long throat to accomodate it. SAMI spec reamers match the old Winchester throat design (bad).

So if you want to source all that crap and carry a long-tom too, you can't get a faster 264 without going to the Lazzeroni or a wildcat.

The .264 should beat a 6.5/284 by a good 200 fps.

For sure a .264 will push 100 gr slugs to 3600 fps+ with ease.........

I'm a strong 6.5 fan and own both a 260 and 264 win mag.
My 264 with 26" barrel pushes 120s at over 3,400 fps with ease. 100s smoke
at 3,700 fps. 140s fetch 3,300 fps. Yet, I dont feel I give up much when I go to the 260 for all practical ranges when hunting deer.
I like the idea of a 6.5-284 short action with 25" barrel.
I would also replace the factory mag and follower with a 3.0.

Cold Bore:

What I am saying Bro, is that a handloaded 260 with lighter bullets can get where a Factory Load in a 264 is.

43.5 grains of IMR 4064 with a 100 grain Nosler Ballistic tip gives me 3350 fps out of a 22 inch barrel Ruger 77 Mk 2 ( I own 2 and both do that) . The same load will chrono at 3400 plus in a 26 inch barreled Rem 700 VLS.

85 grain Sierras have broke 3500 fps in the Rem VLS. The loads for that one are posted in Sierras reload manual number Five.

Based on powder comsumption, yeah give me a 260 over a 264 any day.

Thanks for the question
seafire

This response is for our friend Cold Bore.

If the 264 will push a 100 grain bullet to 3600 fps with ease,
compared to a 260 how much more powder does that take and then, what is the real world trajectory difference of 3600 fps to 3350/3400 fps? Not overly significant.

That is why I prefer the 260. However in the real world, I split the difference when I thought I needed a gun in this slot and built a 6.5 x 57, or 6.5 x 257 since I use 257 brass for it.

It gives me 150 to 200 fps more with all bullet weights over the 260. It was built on a Model 70 action with a 28 inch heavy sporter barrel with a 1 in 7 twist. Bullets are long seated.

I think the non Magnum action is a lot easier on barrels also.

Cheers and Good shooting
seafire

I agree that the 260 is more "efficient" than the 264 WM, but you initially said your 260 will outrun a 264.

Comparing warm handloads to factory stuff is hardly a true comparison. Compare factory-to-factory, or max handload to max handload. The 264 will win every time.

But for most situations, the 260 is a more "sensible" choice, agreed. That's why up in the Gunsmithing section, I recently said that I was considering building one, even though I have a 264 WM in the safe...

This response is for Cold Bore, Seafire B17/G and whoever else cares to read it.In my not too humble opinion It is believed that the .260 has brought nothing to the gun world that hasn't been there a long long time.It is another compromise stubby necked cartridge used as a marketing tool to sell new toys to playfull people and give gun rags something to virtuously expound to it's readers about and create silly excitement.Compounding the inadequacy of poor case design they sqeeze it into a short action and by necessity must give it a short throat.

I must say however ,it does generate some interesting threads and posting.Did you ever notice how a little contradiction seems to stir the pot?

It started 6.5X55 vs. .264? The Swede wins again. roger

The same thing was said about 25 years when the 7mm-08 came out. However, I generally do agree with you, most new rounds are superfluous sales pitches, but every so often a real winner comes down the pipe - the 7mm-08 was one, and so in the 260 (IMHO).



It seems prudent to not forget that many of our favorite rounds started life as a sales pitch - even some of the now classics like the 300 Savage, the 250-3000, and the 270, to name a few.



For that matter, new rifle models are often introduced for the same reasons - I'm glad the model 70 replaced the model 54, for example.



Not all progress is bad...

If you like it and enjoy it ,go for it.However, when I do a comparative analysis it goes something like this.
1. 7-08 vs. the 7X57. What can the 7-08 do that the 7X57 can't do as well or better and has for a hundred years?
Answer--I don't know.

2. .260 vs. 6.5X55& 6.5X57 SAME quetion and answer.

3. The .300 savage came out to be used in the Mod.99 and come close to 30-06 balistics.

4. 250-3000 was intended to capture part of the 25-35 market and function also in the mod. 99. Sadly both savage cartridges died before the mod. 99. They really had no staying power on their own in an increasingly competitve MARKET.The term "classic" used for each is one of emotional reverence rather than earned by exceptional performance.The greatest contribution from the 250 was the spawning of the 22 Varminter.

5.The .270 was and remains today a great cartridge. Why was it born rather than the .280? It really had the marketing appeal of being something different.Well almost different;there were a couple experimental military catridges.I've asked myself before " If the .280 had come out at that time instead of the .270 which one today would be the most popular?" The .280 is superior in every way but look what happened.

The firearms marketing people understand that it is dealing with a truely fickle buying group that can at times be easily lead or mis lead.As long as they can make you believe that are giving you something new and wonderful they can set the hook.

When I truely see something NEW and wonderful performing better than what we already have than I will cast my lot with the guy who says a real winner came down the PIPE.Or is it PIKE? (Which referes to a road or byway)
interesting thread. roger

So I presume then that your entire hunting battery consists of a 22LR, an 8x57J (or 8x50R), and a 500 NE. Now if, by some peculiar circumstance, you happen to have a few "superfluous" firearms laying around that you acquired in a moment weakness, perhaps you'd be willing to sell them for a below-market price to a starry-eyed, marketing patsy such as myself. Methinks that your 6.5x55, 6.5x57, and 7x57 fall in this category...

I`ll second Triggertate!!! Long live the 264 Win Mag. I have carried one for over 30 yrs and it`s never let me down. Now to really get the flames flying--- 140 Sierras Gamekings too. I have just about everything you can stick a 6.5 bullet into all the way from the 6.5/223 to the 264 Thor[Handloader Digest #17] and still love the old 264. My well "seasoned" 700 has a 23" tube and with 74.5/H-870 I get a chronographed 3160 fps which is plenty for me. If I just want to kill these little Blacktails around here all I need is my 263 Express. But!! For the longer shots on the E. side the 264 goes into the case. Download it a bit and shoot the 120 Sierras and it`s hell on coyotes too. Just my .02.
Aloha, Mark[in Or]

They're all good rounds. Look at a loaded exmple of each and see which one gets your loins stirred the most.
Also, define your needs/wants/desires. Super long range accuracy - 6.5 x .284, Super medium range accuracy and deep wound channels with not too much meat damage - 6,5 x 55 SE, whack 'em and stack 'em with a belt and the "Westerner" history - .264 Win Mag. This is one card hand you can't lose.
JCN

Roger,

You know I love ya! I would never contradict ya. Have too much respect for you.

Yeah give me a 57mm case any day. However, I do prefer the short action 51mm case ( 308 style) over the longer 06 case, In calibers under 30. I do prefer an 06 over a 308 tho.

It is just one marketing idea I am glad they made. Same as the 7/08. ( which I don't own, but own 3 of the 7 mm Mauser rifles, 2 rugers and one winchester featherweight.)

Cheers and Good shooting
seafire

Ok guys help me out here I am having a brain fart (that is what they call it when you get older and can't remember right)

What is the 264 Thor?

Thx

"GET TO THE HILL"

Dogz

264 Thor

http://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=57900&page=14&view=expanded&sb=10&o=&fpart=

Inadvertantly I guess I miss led you . I wasn't excluding myself from that fickle group easily mis lead.In fact I really enjoy my short necked .243 and .308 even if they are poorly designed. I also have fun with some short necked wildcats that I poorly designed.Non of these bring anything new and wonderful to the table they just broeden our choice. roger

From my point of view on rifles having designed a wildcat and presently owning about all the rifles that I can keep track of I would avoid a wildcat. However those who have not had one my want one so this is just my frame of reference. On this theme I am low on handloaded ammo since I spend so much time on the net. This is my choice.

Thus a rifle that would shoot a factory cartridge is quite easy to live with in the long run.

So having been there and done that and not really wanting another custom Mauser or Remington I would go with a factory rifle in 270 WSM to get the same result. The 270 WSM will shoot a 130 gr bullet about as fast as a 264 WM will shoot 120's.

To each his own.

I have hunted with a .264 for over 20 years. My first is a westerner that is now retired; my second is a ruger mkII with only a 24" tube. I use these rifles for long shooting; which I believe the caliber was born for that. I load 120's out of the ruger over a whole bunch of 7828 that will get just over 3500. I also load 140's over a whole bunch of rl 22 @ almost 3300. Only build a 264 if you hand load. There was a comment about one being more sensible than the others. While I partially agree; if everyone was sensilbe, we'd only have .270's, 30-06's, and basic pickups. So if the cartirdge burns barrels, eats powder, kicks like a mule, and you like it....go for it.

I'll take my .264 and old beat up land rover any day.

turfman

Hobbies, including guns, are about 99% want and 1% sense. A toast to the redundant and the superfluous! Cheers.

Well, Cap'n, seems like nobody much wants to address your question.

Issue no. 1: If you plan to use a 700 short action, then you'll find that you need to limit your OAL somewhat with the 6.5x284. This is not much of a problem if you intend to use nothing longer than a "conventional" 120 grain bullet. A long monolithic or Partition-type bullet may require seating deeper than you want.

Issue no. 2: If you DO want to use the wonderful 140's, particularly the great Nosler Partition, then you'll be at an advantage with the .264, both in terms of powder capacity and seating depth. But here again, the typical 3.35" magazine of a Mauser is a tad limiting for the .264. My Sako has a 3.6" magazine and I use most of it.

Issue no. 3: Ignore the belt on the magnum and the rebated rim on the wildcat. Treat either as a rimless cartridge and properly headspace on the shoulder, and you'll find no disadvantages to either.

Bottom line: You won't suffer much in terms of velocity if you're using a Sierra, Speer, etc. 120 grain in a 6.5x284 as compared to a .264 Win., maybe 100 fps at equivalent pressures. The .264 will show some advantage with the heavier/longer bullets. There are no flies on either of these cartridges, but I would prefer a slightly longer action than the 700 for the wildcat. Good shooting!

Build the 6.5x284 on the Mauser. It's too long for a M700SA IMO. The mauser will let you seat bullets out to 3.1 or so, where they need to be to get the most out of the .284 case. No reason not to go .264 but since you want to stay w/ lighter bullets the 6.5 will be close w/ less powder & better barrel wear.

I've never own or shot a 264 mag so cann't comment. I had my first 6x284 done up on a sa 700 next one did on long action and 6.5x284 on win action. Even with the light bullets may need to cut out part of action so you can unload a live round. Good luck!

"no one loads a 6.5x284"

I had one made up in 1966.I don't know if I was first but I hadn't heard of anyone else having one at that time. I would suggest that if you go with the 6.5X.284 you go with a std. length action( Mod. 98 or even a little longer) and have it throated so you don't have to push the base of the longest bullet deeper than the junction of the neck to shoulder.I use to use Fred Barne's truely original bullets in it with a full case of 4831 and it was a fatastic performer on mule deer and elk. I only whish that it had a longer neck. roger