For any rifle that is reasonably flat shooting to 300 or 400 yards or so why would you zero over an inch high at 100 yards..
To me zeroing over an inch high is just a recipe for shooting over an animal. I had much rather hold a couple inches high than to hold low on an animal. I hate holding low on anything. Ok so to the point for normal hunting is there any real need to zero over an inch hight at 100 yards?

J

The average shooter cannot estimate distances in the field with any degree of accuracy. Sighting in high at 100 yards results in a "dead on" or "point blank" hold out to several hundred yards, depending on the cartridge and the game being hunted.

JMHO

Ray

quote:

Ok so to the point for normal hunting is there any real need to zero over an inch hight at 100 yards?

None whatsoever.....do it anyway you want.....

I'll continue sighting 2" high at 100 as that's the way I like it.....

I normally set my scope up to allow maximum point blank range for about a 6-8"dia kill zone. So normally out to around 300yds (probably 95+% of the time) I just point and shoot. Past that I adjust my hold. I have trouble seeing how 1" high at 100 would make you shoot over a big game animal.

I sight my long range guns for a 300 yard zero, in general that puts me +2.25 at 100, +3.0 at 200, and -7 at 400. Out to 400 I can stay on fur. Without a range finder if it seems really far I just aim at the hairline. The bullet will land in the vitals.

With +1 at 100 with many rounds you will be over -20 down at 400. Thats more than I care to deal with.

At 3000fps, I can sight in 2.5" high and be dead on at 250 and 3.5" down at 300, so that is where I sight mine. It never gets higher or lower than 3.5" anywhere along the way.

Jack O'Connor was the first I know of to recommend sighting high at 100 yards to take advantage of the max point blank range and to lessen the need to accurately estimate range. The only time I have shot over an animal using the 3" high at 100 yards rule of thumb he espoused was when I held high. I don't recall ever shooting under one when holding dead on behind the middle of the shoulder.

If one is a mind to he can sight in his rifle and throttle it to match the Leupold LRV reticule

This is a duplex with two dots under the crosshairs....one is 2 1/2" low for three hundred yard shooting and the second one is 20" low for 400 yard shooting and the top of the lower picket is 40" low for 500 yard shooting.....then all you have to do is estimate range.....

This can be done with a rangefinder or simply knowing that a bull elk should fit in the space between the cross hairs and the second dot and if it does then it's 400 yards.....if it's smaller than that it greater than 400 yards.etc...

By adjusting somewhat your sight-in distance and your velocity this reticule nicely fits a lot of guns....however it's best if you can push a bullet like a .300 mag.....a .30-06 will just barely fit this reticule picture.....but it can with 180 grain bullets.

With even a .30-06 out to 300 yards or so all you have to do is put the crosshairs on the top of the elk and squeeze.....shooting to 400 and even 500 yards is helped greatly with the second dot and vertical picket location....that is if you're comfortable taking such a shot.....

I have ordered a 4-12 X 40 Leupold just for this purpose to fit to my .300 H&H for elk hunting.....making a 200 grain bullet fall in the scopes marks will require a bit of work....but well worth it to me.

There's a lot of reasons folks sight-in their rifles the way they do.....I have a neighbor that wants his .30-06 to hit his jackolantern (pumpkin) dead center at 50 yards.....guess what....he gets his deer everyyear.....go figure.

I normally sight in my hunting rifles at 2.5" high at 100M. This allows me to shoot to about 300M without trying to guess the yardage. I am quite good at estimating distances to 300M but after that it is a crapshoot and I prefer not to use a rangefinder in the field.

I don't believe that I have ever shot over an animal, only under and at distances further than 300M.

Depends on where one hunts a 200 yard shot is a very long one normally here in the north woods. I sight most of my rifles in a in to 1.5 high at a hundred. gives only a couple of inch low at 200 hit easy out to about 250. Matchs my mil dots or Balstic plex reticles best also.

quote:

Depends on where one hunts

+1 I'm sighting only 1" high at 100, which puts me dead on around 160 and 1.8 low at 200. Where I'm hunting there's virtually no place to take a shot beyond 200 yards. With only 2 exceptions everything will be inside 150. I feel this gives me more precise control over shot placement. Is it needed? Probably not, but I like it and feel more confident.

LWD

quote:

Originally posted by Jarrod:
To me zeroing over an inch high is just a recipe for shooting over an animal.

Unless you shoot at mice 1.5 to 2 inches high is still in the killing zone, depending of course on the caliber up to more than 200 meters.

If you should forget to calculate windage, it doesn't matter as long as you go for heart-lung shots.

At 300 meters, there is a considerable difference of drop between a rifle sighted in at 100 meters and on that shoots 4 cm high at that distance. It's a matter of geonometry, just look at the tables.

I typically sight in 2" high at 100 yds on my .280 Rem, putting me dead on at 300 yds.

This past antelope season, I shot an antelope at 490 paces ( the longest I ever made successfully) thinking it was 350 yards. I held at the spine on a broadside shot and hit about 6 to 8 inches below the spine. I was amazed that the bullet did not drop more at that distance.

When I miss, I usually miss "high" rather than low because I over estimate distances and hold too high. I have started to lower my sight in point to 1" or less to counter my tendancy.

For what it is worth, I suggest you sight in where you are comfortable and can remember your bullets trajectory. I find it odd that guys will tape a white sheet of paper to their stocks to help them with drop and windage yet dress in full camo. A shooter should be able to remember drop and windage for the gun in his hand.

As ACRECURVE mentioned, Jack O'Connor was the first to write about it. In 1947 I think it was he wrote an article for Outdoor Life about zeroing a scope. The article was so good that Weaver scopes when they were in El Paso made a reprint and it was included with all their scopes. The basic jest was that line of sight is straight,but the bullet makes an arc path. If you sight in MOST rifles at 25 yards you will be high at 100 (inch or so) and back on 200-250 or so(depending on velocity,bullet etc). Basically he was describing what latter became known as point blank range. It works for me. I sight in at 25 yards then check it and fine tune at 100. If you zero at 100 you are cutting down your point blank range considerably.

quote:

Originally posted by carpetman:
As ACRECURVE mentioned, Jack O'Connor was the first to write about it. In 1947 I think it was he wrote an article for Outdoor Life about zeroing a scope. The article was so good that Weaver scopes when they were in El Paso made a reprint and it was included with all their scopes. The basic jest was that line of sight is straight,but the bullet makes an arc path. If you sight in MOST rifles at 25 yards you will be high at 100 (inch or so) and back on 200-250 or so(depending on velocity,bullet etc). Basically he was describing what latter became known as point blank range. It works for me. I sight in at 25 yards then check it and fine tune at 100. If you zero at 100 you are cutting down your point blank range considerably.

The 25 yard zero, inch high at 100 yards is how I normally zero. Just seems to work best for me. I guess rather a person zeros in an inch high at 100 or 2 inch or 3 inch whatever as long as it works for that person. I guess neither as wrong as long as you know your trajectory.
I don't remember who wrote the article because I read it when I was a teenager but it basically said zero an inch high at 100 yards and go hunting. This has always seemed to work for me. My dad likes to sight in about 3 inch high at 100 and that works for him..

quote:

Originally posted by Jarrod:
For any rifle that is reasonably flat shooting to 300 or 400 yards or so why would you zero over an inch high at 100 yards..

Think of it as shooting through a 4" pipe. As others have said, sighting in high at 100 yards allows one to have a maximum pointblank range of approximately 325 yards without the bullet ever leaving that 4" pipe. Given a reasonable starting velocity such as 2700f/s, this not only allows one to avoid holdover when shooting less than 300 yards, it prevents range estimation mistakes. I hold dead center on Antelope (which are about 50% hair IMHO)with this sighting, and it flat works. This is a great system for big game hunters without range estimating scopes, but not so great for varmint hunters seeking small targets.

One thing is theoretical trajectories, a completely experience is to try that out in real life at 300 meters. Not always the rifle shoots as predicted in the tables.

DUK

I must say that I don't agree with you. Trajectory calculations are simple physics and you can't fool Mother Nature. If you input accurate data you will get accurate predictions. 300 meters is a very short distance as far as external ballistics is concerned. When you get to the long ranges (600 yards and beyond) the system tends to break down a little but not because the trajectory calculations are wrong. It's because there are so many environmental factors that come into play.

JMHO

Ray

Flat shooting is a deceptive term when referring too Firearms . IMO any way .

I have always maintained + 2.25" 7 mm RM at 100 yd. = 0 at 300 yd. least wise close enough

not to have missed any targets . I'm stuck in my ways never owned a range finder nor overly

concerned my self with hold over on animals with in 500 Yd. . One shot drop , as I don't recall the last time

I missed unless I go back pre Military service and that could be longer than most of you've been on this planet .

I sight my long range rifles 3 inches high at 100 yards. I am 4 inches high at 200 and a few inches low at 325. My 7MM RM and 270 can then be held center chest to 325 yards. I hold top of shoulder at 400 and let anything farther wait for me to get closer. My less open country rifles get the 1 to 1 1/2 inch high treatment and I can still hold dead on to 200 yards with a center chest POI.

quote:

Originally posted by Cheechako:
DUK

I must say that I don't agree with you. Trajectory calculations are simple physics and you can't fool Mother Nature. If you input accurate data you will get accurate predictions. 300 meters is a very short distance as far as external ballistics is concerned. When you get to the long ranges (600 yards and beyond) the system tends to break down a little but not because the trajectory calculations are wrong. It's because there are so many environmental factors that come into play.

JMHO

Ray

Ray,

you are of course right. However, the accurate data we need are not always completely available, especially velocities as well as BC. Velocity data from manufacturers might be too optimistic, same like loading data published in books.

The biggest impact I notice regarding the distance between scope and barrel axle. Not so much in the US where you mostly use bolt actions or similar, being the variations relatively small.

Here, many people use drillings or o/u combinations where you have a shotgun barrel in between scope and rifle barrel. This increased distance has a very noticable effect on your trajectory or rather on it's geometry, you can check that out easily with any good ballistics program. Increase distance between scope and barrel and see what happens.

I once tried a B95 o/u combination at, if I remember well, about 170 m expecting that it would hit right on POA.

No, it didn't, it shot even higher than at 100 meters. Possibly it was not sighted at +4 cm over POA at 100 m but a little higher, still, that was one big surprise for me.

Good for you that in your country you can try and practice at over 300 meters. Here in our very densely populated parts of Germany this is unfortunately not possible.

Probably the thing that "seems" to make actual vary from the tables is actual velocity. If you are using the tables for velocity,the actual velocity is often times vastly different.
The trajectory will be much different than whats expected.

You should sight in your gun so that it works for you. What works for me is sighting in about 2 inches high at 100 yds. For me, I'm not worried about shooting over the game but I'm worried about shooting under the game at long distances, so, I sight my rifle in 2 inches high at 100 yds. I just like the idea of being able to aim at the center of the kill zone out to 300 yds.

I mount all my scopes high. This gives me a longer 'point blank range' as well as a more comfortable and steady rifle hold. (It also increases the risk of being smacked about the eye by the scope, so I mount my 'recoiling' rifle scopes far forward). I sight for a mid-range elevation of 1½ inches, which is not at 100 yds but more like 120 - 130 yds, depending on rifle. The thing is, I often shoot small targets. My 'high velocity' rifle will have a point blank range of 240 yds, by my standard. With that sighting, it will have a drop of 30 inches at 420 yds. I reckon I will be able to shoot hares out to 350 yds with it. (It's the black one).

quote:

Originally posted by DUK:. . . the accurate data we need are not always completely available, especially velocities as well as BC. Velocity data from manufacturers might be too optimistic, same like loading data published in books.. . .

DUK

The single best investment you can make is buying a chronograph. Today there are some very inexpensive models on the market that will give you accurate velocity readings. Without knowing the actual fps of your loads you are really guessing at everything else.

BC's are available for most bullets. I know that some are not necessarily accurate but bullet makers are coming to realize that shooters are knowledgable about such things and they are making efforts to get the numbers right. Another use for that chronograph - you can calculate your own BCs.

Good Luck

Ray

Ray,

I also agree on this one. Still, even the very best calculation based on the most valid parameters should be tested afterwards under real life conditions.

We know from all industries (including the financial) that despite thorough planning and preparation still very strange things can happen.

It is animals we afterwards shoot at and not some "things", IMHO we have the ethical obligation to make as sure as possible we hit what and where we aim at and, in case we do not feel confident enough, just skip the shot.

I zero my .17 Hornet slightly less than 1.0 inch high at 100 yards and then it is slightly less than 1.0 inch low at 200 yards. That works well for me when shooting at the small animals that rifle usually get used for. My 7MM STW, 6MM-06, .338-.378 and .220 Weatherby Rocket get zeroed at 300 yards for shooting at coyotes and deer. Their maximum rise under 300 yards is less than 3.0 inches, except for the .338-.378 which is slightly over 3.0 inches. Again this works well for me. However, I always estimate the range and know where the bullet will strike at the estimated range. Most of the hunters I know only think about the range and trajectory if the range looks very far. For them I think the 1-inch-high-at-100-yard method would work better. - DON

If you really understand your rifle and caliber and know exactly how fast your particular load is shooting, sight in at dead on at 100 yards. Use the balistic data for that load and speed to estimate your hold over at long distances.