i've pretty much decided that the twenty tactical is in my future, but i'm wondering about applications besides popping p-dogs and woodchucks.

i would gather that it would fill in nicely as a predator hunting rig being in between the .17rem and the various .22 centerfires.

i hunt for pelts and so i don't want to keep them as intact as possible. the berger SP would probably be better than the hornady v-max for this application. i want something that won't blow up a bobcat or fox, but still has the oomph to make a clean kill on a 'yote at distance.

any field reports on how the .20's do on these critters?

I haven't shot a coyote with my Tactical yet, but plan to give it a try on feral hogs soon. A well placed shot in the head should drop even the largest pig. You will love the Tactical Twenty. It is catching on more every day, and is a GREAT varmint round. The Twenty Caliber Page

Mike Johnston

Greg Tannel has shot dozens of them with it using the Hornady 33 grain VMAX. He is very busy, but you can reach him at [970] 353-6176 [Colorado]. I know he likes the cartridge alot. Also, for those .20 cal, fans out there, just found another source of bullets. Schroeder in San Diego [don't have their phone number, but check with Small Caliber News web site]. Schroeder makes a 40 grainer, which I would like to try.

Jordan

I too am seriously looking at a Tact 20 as my next gun. Being really uninformed (ie. ignorant) when it comes to guns that you can't buy off the shelf, where does one start to build/buy a Tact 20 rifle?? What would one cost?? Any help in getting started would be greatly apprecia ted

Norwester67 if you are at all interested in a 20ppc barrel for a encore let me know.
rmcdanie2@shaw.ca

McD, if you have a 20ppc for an Encore for sale, I'm interested. willie_rosin@hotmail.com. If you're making them, I'm interested also.
Yardbird

To Mpol 777, MikeJ & Jordan: What kind & where did you get your barrels from? Who had the reamers to install the barrels. Thanks

Norwester:

I do not have a .20 Tactical, but I do have three other .20s wildcatted from various parent cases. I have used Douglas and K&P barrels. I lucked into the K&P barrels. Otherwise, I would not have bothered with them because the wait is horrendous. I have had Douglas barrels installed on several of my rifles and like them very much. I always freeze them to make them wear a little better. Greg Tannel likes PacNor alot. I think he recommends a 13 twist. Also, I am told that Lilja is now making the .20 caliber barrel and of course, their quality is very high too. Shilen is also making .20 cal tubes. I was talking to a fellow the other day and he insisted that right now Shilen is making the best .17 cal tube out there. [I am a Lothar Walther fan myself].

Shooting the 33 grain VMAX at 4300 fps, the 13 twist stablizes them nicely. However, I would go with a 12 twist. First, there is a rumor out there that Hornady has a 36 grain boattail VMAX in the works. I suspect it will require a 12 twist to stablize. Second, there are some other manufacturers out there [Schroeder Bullets in San Diego, Don Unmussig in Virginia] who make 40 grain bullets and I am not sure the 13 twist will stabilize them either.

I know that Greg Tannel has the following .20 cal reamers---all piloted: .20 BR, .20 PPC, .20 Tac., .20 Var Targ, .20 Var Targ Turbo, .20 Hornet Improved [40 degree]. He may have some other oddballs too.

Jordan

~~He may have some other oddballs too.~~

Yea Jordan, I can think of one I wonder if he was ever able to use that Pacnor chambered with a particular oddball?

I hear that he is now chambering one called .20AR that is similar to the Tactical, but the shoulder is .030" farther forward making the neck-down easier.

Norwester, Greg Tannel did mine also, with a 13" three groove Pac-Nor. He is an excellent smith and Pacnor makes a great barrel. I had him make a set of dies, too.

Mike Johnston

Mike,

You've got a great memory! I was hoping you would forget about that particular odd ball!

Merry Christmas,

Jordan

OK, would you choose pac-nor over douglas?? Where would I find this Greg Tannel? I'm looking for a donor gun to build this Tact 20 so it may be a while before I have to worry about barrel twist maybe.Just keep on throwing out the juicy tidbits though.Thanks.

Norwester:

Greg's phone number is [970] 353-6176 [Colorado]. I believe Greg is backed up 4-6 months with work, maybe more. But he is worth the wait. If Greg says PacNor is the way to go, then go with PacNor. I think he recommends their 3-groove barrel. Also, the reason for the 13 twist is to use the slowest twist possible and yet still stabilize the 33 grain VMAX and with the 13 twist you get a tad more velocity than the 12, so that might be another reason to go with PacNor, since Douglas only makes a 10 and 12 twist.

You might also consider a telephone call to Todd Kindler, editor of Small Caliber News. It is Todd who has brought the .20 back to life over the past 4-5 years. He sells a .20 cal reloading manual [it has a nice picture of Greg on the front with a coyote]. He also sells dies, cleaning rods, etc.

FWIW, I am really taken with the .20 caliber. I really like the way it splits the difference between the .17 and .22. It gives better accuracy than the .17 with less fouling [I've owned a passel of .17s and never really got one to consistently shoot those tiny bug-hole groups we all covet]. You get the advantage of being able to use a lighter bullet than the .22s, thus getting a little more velocity from the .223 family of cases with a pill that is still large and lethal enough to down coyotes, not too mention 'chucks and p-dogs.

Jordan

So how is it on fur? Maybe no body here has shot coyote yet?

Chris

What about barrel life? Has anyone put thousands of rounds thru one yet? How are they in the wind? Up where I shoot it's a given that the wind will be blowing.

I have been looking into these neat little 20's myself. There is some good info and products at www.woodchuckden.com if you want one they seem to know about them and carry what you might need.

If I recall correctly, Greg says that when loaded hot [4350 fps] the Hornady 33 grain VMAX will blow up on the yote's fur if the 'yote is shot at less than 100-125 yards. It will leave a hole of course, but penetration and lethality are compromised at short range because the yote's hair apparently upsets the bullet and at that velocity and short range it just comes apart. Out past 125 yards or so, the bullet works great.

Now, I am not sure of Greg's longest shot with one. I know that last year he shot 30+ yotes----all with the .20 Tac and it has since become his exclusive 'yote gun. He calls the .20 Tac a coyote laser. I think the idea was to have a "point and shoot" [viz., no need to hold over] out to 400-450 yard, something like that.

IMHO,if Hornady would make a 36 grain boat tail VMAX [as rumor has it they are planning to do] it would really be the ticket for the larger case .20s.

Jordan

I am one who when you talk predators has the numbers 243 or 25-06 come to mind. I have tried several smaller calibers over the years. My favorite shooting gun was a .222 but it failed me on several coyotes, sorry I just call em like I see em. I have settled on the 25-06 as being top of the hill in a predator caliber.

I am sure I will get an agruement or three, but I been there and paid my dues in that department. I feel it gives me the right to say so. I have hunted with friends and their .17's and shot one myself once, but give me a good straight shooting rifle .243 or 25-06 any day for coyotes.

Chigger, I agree, nothing better than a .243with a 55 or 70 gr. BT on top, but the thought of a .20 intrigues me just cause it's different. I want to get a 16 1/4" barrel for my Encore in .20 PPC, I've read that I can push 4000 pretty hard with it. then I could use it as a pistol or a carry rifle for hiking in on the yotes.
Yardbird

You'll get no argument from me against the .243 or .25-06. From what I've seen and read, they are great coyote killers. One thing I find appealing about the .20 Tac is the opportunity provided by its lighter recoil to keep your cross-hairs on the 'yote after the trigger squeeze.

Merry Christmas,

Jordan

I've only shot two coyotes with the 20 Tac this winter. The first one was hit about 75 yards right on the shoulder blade. There was an entrance hole the size of a large grapefruit on the surface. The bullet (33 gr. V-Max @ 4300 fps)blew up right under the skin and provided no penetration. The second yote was shot at about 275 yards. This yote had a very small entrance and an exit hole the size of a tennis ball (through the lung area). I have some of those expensive Berger bullets but have not loaded them yet. Any reports on the Bergers on coyotes?

TD

Anyone have one of these rifles already put together for sale? Thanks for any info.

I've heard nothing first hand on the Bergers. Years ago I heard the criticism that because the Berger 36 grain pill was made using a .22 cal. jacket that it was not as explosive as some wanted it to be. Now, I understand that criticism as it perhaps relates to rodents, but when we are talking coyotes and especially at Tac 20 velocities, I would think that .22 caliber thick jacket would translate into a real effective round.

I guess the downside of the 36 grain Berger is that you lose out on the hyper velocity of the 33 grain VMAX. There is a rumor afoot that Hornady is committed to producing a 36 grain VMAX with a boat-tail. I hope so.

Jordan

A local store has several of the Cooper Arms rifles in .20 caliber. If anyone is interested, I can check them out closer and get more information. They sure are nice rifles.

Tromix is building AR-15 uppers in 20 tac. about any AR shop could stick a barrel in. It would be an awesome calling/varmint in a 16-20" AR!
RR

Would a Charles daly mini mauser action be a good choice to bulid a a Tact 20 rifle? Or any "accurate" rifle for that matter??

NW67 I am a big fan of remington actions for a custom gun. I have a few customs rifles on mauser,remington,ruger actions and by far the remington guns out shoot the rest.A note on barrels if money is tight (like my house)douglas makes a 20 barrel that is threaded, chambered, and crowned cheep. i have one on a ruger and it shoots great.

How is the Tac20 formed?

Hi,I'm new here so please bear with me.I have killed a few coyotes and rockchucks with my 20AR
(+.030" 20 Tactical)built by Greg Tannel and I must say no animals suffered at all.The ranges I have shot them at vary from 45yds to a little over 200yds.As far as good on fur forget it!The 33V-max is very destructive at 4440fps.I am sure excited to see all the new bullets that are becoming available and can't wait to try some,I will try some of the new 40's at a much slower speed and try to see if the fur won't get torn so badly.
Regards
Matt

Scramjet:re: douglas barrel- If you don't mind my being nosey, what did they charge you to thread & ream your barrel & how long ago was this?? who did the work on your action ?? What kind of accuracy do you have & how is the barrel & action holding up ??

mpol777 - I think you'll be tickled pink with the
Tactical 20 (or Greg Tannel's variation of it -- the
.223 cases would be much easier to prepare for Greg's
chambers). New bullets are in the pipeline from
several sources. Personally, I'm not too crazy about
Berger's bullets -- the shell IS too darned hard.
Berger needs to go another step with their extrusion
process. Got a few custom bullets from a person that
may not make any more, but his were made from the
.22 tubes, also. A 35gr bullet did not make it all
the way through a raccoon, but blew his innards to
shreds and made blood soup out of the lungs. More
bullets of this nature are in the making.

My Encore barrel from VVCG is a 1:12 twist. Super
accurate at different loads with the 36gr MEF, 33gr
VMax, and 30gr 5mm Certech. About to test a 40gr
bullet, which Mike J has already tested with good
results, and a 45gr bullet is in the works. One
of the things holding people back from getting any
20 cal, was the availability of different bullets,
but that soon will not be the case.

By the time you get your rifle together, there
probably will be a bullet out there that will not
tear your furs up (doubt if any of the above will,
if a frontal shot through only small bone is taken,
except for the 30gr 5mm which is probably too
light).

I know that both the PacNor and Shilen barrels
are very good in the 20 caliber, but can't tell
ya about the others.

DannoBoon
I also have a VVCG Tactical 20 Encore 24" SS barrel and the fit and finish on this barrel is a work of art. I got all of my reloading supplies and cleaning supplies from the Woodchucks Den, ordered one day and it arrived at my door the next day, great service from these folks. They reccomended the IMI brass, all I did was run my brass through a 223 full length die with the expander rod removed, this took the brass down to about 21 caliber, I didn't loose any brass out of the 100 pieces I sized, then through the Tactical 20 full length die, loaded on the low side with 33V-max bullets, I used these loads to break the barrel in, I did shoot one three shot group that measured .300. It surely impressed me with this performance. I havent tryed this one on any animals yet but I supect the V-max bullets would be very explosive at the velocities it is shooting.
Albert

Albert - The guys at VVCG do good work, don't they?
Was the diameter for the neck in your chamber reamed
at .233 as Todd Kindler's is? I wanted a tighter
neck for the Win brass, so had mine done at .230 but
will need to turn the necks down in IMI brass, since
loaded as is, they will measure .230 - need .001"
clearance.

Will have to try your method of preforming the brass.
Kindler recommended at one point to use the 17MIV
preforming die (that's quite an added expense!) Just
so happens I have a .223 set of dies!

Wonder if the 33gr VMax would be less explosive for
fur-savers if they were loaded down to around
3600fps for those 100-200 yard shots? Everything
I've loaded has been pretty darned accurate at any
velocity, except for the 36gr Bergers, and they
were accurate to 1/4" with 24gr H335.

DannoBoon-My loaded rounds with the IMI brass is measureing .231,I'm guessing the neck in mine is running .233 to .234 from measureing the fired cases. I havent tryed H335 yet, I've used only IMR4198 and Varget, the Varget loads are on the light side and the one I got the best accuracy with. It might work to lower the velocity on the V-max I tryed it with 75V-max .257 bullets and they didn't blow up they just passed through but still left 1" exit holes. I've got a benchrest style foreend ordered from VVCG, they said it would probably be about 6 more weeks because they would be at a gun show all week, I'm hopeing it will help to get ride of the unexpected fliers I get sometimes, I'll have 2 or 3 rounds in one ragged hole then the next round will take it out to a half inch, I had this same problem with a 6BR Bullberry barrel and it took care of the problem.
Albert

Anyone have any idea on barrel life at 4300fps

If anyone is interested I have a tuned 700 with a #5 Shilen minus stock in Tac20 that I would part with.pm me

I just finished the Tromix AR-15 chambered in Tactical 20. I will range test it tomorrow. It has a 24" Pac-Nor Stainless Super Match barrel, 1:12 twist. Side charging upper receiver, Tromix lower receiver sporting a Jewell trigger. I'll get some pics up on the website shortly.

Tony Rumore
Tromix Corp
www.tromix.com

I would love to find a Mini-14 in the right condition and price for one of Calhoon's 20 kits!