After several short sessions at the bench, I am seeing some kind of pattern in my older Ruger # 1, .257 Roberts. While I am disappointed in the overall groups, the groups seem to favor slow velocities and IMR powders.

Here are my notes: (All groups are 5 shot unless otherwise indicated and all groups shot at lazer ranged 97 yards).


257 Roberts Rifle Loads: Bullet / powder starting loads / RESULTS

75 Hornady VMax

H380 42.0 2889 (1=2640, 4= 2950) 2 ½â€



imr4064 38.0 2765 vertical line 3 ¼â€



Ruger # 1 .257 Roberts 8-13-08
97 yards, 16x, 75°

75 V-Max 46.0 H380 3334’ es: 40’ 2 ¼†(3 shot group)


75 V-Max 46.0 H380 3312’ es: 55’ 2 ¼’


75 V-Max 44.0 H380 3208’ es: 148’ 2 3/8â€


75 V-Max 44.0 H380 3155’ es: 143 2 3/8†(one hand hold - both hands on pistol grip)


75 V-Max 35.0 3031 2793’ es: 100’ 1 ¼â€


75 V-Max 35.0 3031 2764’ es: 28’ 1 ¾â€



90 Sierra BTHP-1615

H380 40.0 2714 (2663-2780) 2 ½†(3 shots went into 1 ½ )

Another: 2508 3 7/8†erratic



imr4064 36.0 2554 1 ¼â€



Ruger # 1 .257 Roberts 8-13-08
97 yards, 16x, 75°


90 Sie BTHP 43.0 H380 3075’ es: 77’ 2 ½â€


90 Sie BTHP 43.0 H380 3052’ es: 143’ 4 3/16†(good grief)


90 Sie BTHP 33.0 3031 2587’ es: 35’ 1 ½â€


90 Sie BTHP 33.0 3031 2584’ es: 23’ 1 ½â€



100 Sierra Match 1628
H380 37.0 2469 1 1/16â€



imr4064 34.0 2388 1 1/16â€



Ruger # 1 .257 Roberts 8-13-08 - 97 yards, 16x, 75°


100 Sie Mch 32.0 3031 2489’ es: 39’ 1 ½â€

**1st group of 2 groups with this combo shot 5 “ low off target but @ 1†- scope was centered with a 75 gr. V-Max just prior to this. I raised elevation 10 clicks and printed the 1 1/2 " group.


Yes, nothing above will set any records, but would love to have some of you fellers scope this over and share some ideas for tightening these groups.

Lastly, the trigger is awful on this gun, as are the ones on my # 1 .223 and # 1 .243. The .257 an older "red pad" model. Is there an aftermarket trigger available that I can install myself for less than $100 bucks - on all 3 of these # 1's ?

THANKS in advance.

Bo in western NC

I once owned a 6mm varmint barreled #!.....and a beautiful rifle it was.....

It was direct from Ruger 100%

I was getting groups just like yours.....and returned the gun to Ruger and they returned it to me and it shot worse!!!!!

I returned it again and asked exactly what load they used to determine it was OK for returnming to me.....

Again they returned the rifle and didn't reply to my question.....again it shot poor!

I went to the phone and got someone on the line and asked directly what they tested the rifle to.....and the reply was that their standard was 1.5" groups at 50 Yards!

I found a guy in Arizona that specialized in accurizing Ruger #1 rifles and sent the rifle to him

Upon return the rifle was shooting 7/8" groups.....not superb for a varmint barreled rifle such as this, but it was good enough to go prairie dogging.

I shot the rifle a few trips to the dog towns and then one day sold it to someone that liked it.

It's the very last Ruger long gun to step foot in my house!

Bo,

Before you do ANYTHING, please try the following:

44.0 gr. of H4350 & 100gr Sierra Game King.

When I first got my .257 Bob, someone suggested that load to me. I wish I had listened to him then. It would have saved me a whole lot of work.

Try 10 rounds of that load and report back your findings.

Many No.1's respond well to threading the forearm hangar and installing a tensioning screw that impinges on the barrel (a leather pad is usually placed between the screw and barrel). Brownell's has a kit that does the same thing. You experiment with tension to find the best adjustment.
.

The Hornady 75gr is pretty short bearing area. A longer bearing surface may help some by itself. Mine isn't a #1 but I4064 &I4350 have been very good in mine.
I've seen a article online on do-it-yourself accurizing the #1 and the tension screw is similar to a reverse of pillar bedding. The tension screw can also be shimmed in .001 increments if seated fully against the pillar from what I remember. There does seem to be tricks for that particular firearm. Nate

quote:

I've seen a article online on do-it-yourself accurizing the #1 and the tension screw is similar to a reverse of pillar bedding. The tension screw can also be shimmed in .001 increments if seated fully against the pillar from what I remember. There does seem to be tricks for that particular firearm.

I'd guess the problem BoCash3 is having is more gun related than load related.....just my guess!

He has shot enough fine bullets and likely powders that he should be seeing better results than he's getting.......and the inaccuracy seems to be consistent!

I woulden't bring a new #1 to the range even the first time before I installed a adjustment screw on the hanger. Any reputation the #1 has for inaccuracy comes from this flaw on the hanger and is easaly fixed.
My .300 #1 whent from shooting like your .257 down to 1/2" after installing a 6-32 headles screw on the hanger and playing a little with the tention to find where the best accuracy was.

There's a few things you can try but first, you might want to remove the forearm and try this.
it's a bit tricky, but without the forearm on the gun, rest just the tip of the hanger on the bags. If you place too much of the hanger on the bag, it will slow down the force of the spring that works the hammer. See what kind of a group you get doing that. We've eliminated the forearm as part of the problem. While the forearm is off the gun, check for spots where the barrel might be rubbing. Relieve any spots that show rubbing. While the forearm is off the gun, seal all the exposed wood. Ruger does a totally crappy job of sealing the insides of the stocks. Just ask me how I know. Take the forearm screw to your local hardware store and get a couple of "O" rings that are a snug fit on the screw. When you put the forearm back on the gun, before you replace the screw, put one of the "O" rings on the screw. Tighten the screw as you normally would and see how it shoots. Three shot groups should be good enough. Loosen the screw slightly and see if that makes a difference. The "O" ring is to keep the screw from backing out and sometimes just a change in the screw's torque will make a noticable difference.
Next, I suggest a change in bullets. Rugers are notorious for having way too lng throat and the amount of jump some of your bullets have to make could be a factor in your poor accuracy. I have a RuGer #1B in .257 Bob and while it will shoot the 100 gr. Sierra Game King fairly decently, the flat based Pro-Hunter outshoots it by a wide margin. The difference? I can seat it farther out closer to the lands. The different in .50" for the Pro-Hunters vs 1.25 for the Game Kings. The only exception is in my #1B in 25-05 which has a love affair with the 120 gr. Speer Hot-Cores.
If seating a bullet as far out as you can does not help, or you just cannot get that close, I suggest taking it to a gunsmith and having a chamber cast made. I had one #1A in 7x57 that had a throat so far out of spec that Ruger replaced the barrel.
Once you free float a barrel, or drill the hanger then should that not work and you have to return the gun to Ruger, you will be in store for some unpleasant surprises. Again, just ask me how I know that one. I've been fooling around with Ruger #1s since 1975 and most shoot really well. I've only had two of the 22 I own that ever gave me any real trouble, the 7x57 I mentioned and a CHP commemorative in .357 magnum which so far eludes my getting anything other than patterns. I'll probably play with it some more and then chamber cast it and possibly send it back to Ruger.
It would be a hell of a lot easier to try and diagnose your problem if we could see what your groups looked like.
Paul B.

quote:

Originally posted by Paul B:
It would be a hell of a lot easier to try and diagnose your problem if we could see what your groups looked like.
Paul B.

Thanks, guys !!

I have been tied up but did get a chance to read your replies today.

Without looking, I believe I took some wood out of the forearm's barrel channel in the spring. At least I know I did this on my .223 and .243 # 1's. I may have to go back and check. Seems I then placed a couple of nylon spacers between the tensioning screw and the barrel hanger. Again, I need to check. A few of the first groups I fired before doing this were verticle strings. That, I do remember. Now, the groups are more spread out in a circle. I am not a "professional" benchrest shooter but have reloaded since 1969 and do use a home made heavy wooden bench with Caldwell front rest and rear sand bag. I am also distracted by the heavy trigger pull of this and my other 2 # 1's, but can manage the best trigger pulls I can with a lot of concentration. My .223 and .243 manage decent groups, but this .257 still cannot break an inch. In fact, most of the groups are over 2 inches.

I can manage minor gunsmith work at my work bench as I am pretty mechanically minded. I have previously installed Rifle Basix triggers on two M-77 rifles in .22 Magnum and .22 Hornet. Is a Moyer's trigger very difficult to install? Or is there something else practical that can be done to lighten the trigger?

As suggested, I also think longer bullets and longer seating tend to favor this rifle. I loaded several 10 round runs tonight of 75, 90, and 100 grainers with IMR 3031 powder, but added a couple of grains to each load and still 10% under maximum. It may be next spring before I can get back to the bench with this gun as I have a lot going on. Yeah, I am "retired," but one would never know it.

THANKS to all again. "Bo"

My 2 powders for the 257 Roberts are H-4350 and H-414. If you give up on her PM me if the timing is right I might buy it.
...tj3006

I had a couple of Ruger #1s in 257 Roberts and both had really long throats, such that only the 115, 117, and 120 grain bullet were anywhere close to the rifling. I never could get either rifle to shoot shorter bullets into acceptable groups and Ruger never showed any interest, as their criteria for acceptable groups is about 2MOA. I sold both rifles and know that 1 of them was rechambered to 25-06 when the guy who bought it couldn't get it to shoot any better than I could. Of course, he told everybody that I didn't know what I was doing and that he would have success where I failed, but he didn't and his solution was to cut a new chamber.

Jeff

One of the problems is for a long time Ruger contracted out the barrels from Wilson for 410 a barrel. I believe the barels were also rough chambered and all Ruger had to do was installing and do the finish chambering. The newer Rugers have barrels made by Ruger which are reputed to be quite good. FWIW, the first Rugers, the Pre-series models had barrels by Douglas and those are reputed to be very good.
I think Ruger started with series 130-XXX and I think the first series that had Ruger made barrels starts somewhere in the 133-XXX series.
I agree that Ruger's accuracy standard sucks like hell. The good news is though that most of their guns do a hell of a lot better than 2" at 100 yards although I have also heard 2" at 50 yards was the standard. not a standard to instill confidence.
Paul B.

quote:

I agree that Ruger's accuracy standard sucks like hell. The good news is though that most of their guns do a hell of a lot better than 2" at 100 yards although I have also heard 2" at 50 yards was the standard. not a standard to instill confidence.

I was told directly by folks at Ruger that their accuracy standard (and even for a varmint rifle) was 1.5" at 50 yards.....

again.....since then there has never been a Ruger long gun walk through this door.......and likely never will! phucque'em

The 2 Ruger #1 rifles in 257 Roberts that I had both had 132-xxxxx serial #s. I was thinking that a Ruger #1 in 257 Roberts with a 26" barrel would be among the very best formats for open country deer and antelope hunting, but they didn't shoot small enough groups to be an open country rifle of any sort.

Jeff

Try the 115 Nosler partition bullet -WW brass and enough IMR-4350 to get about 2900 fps .Use good dies such as Forester or Redding .

Glenn

100 grain bullet and 45 grains of IMR 4350.

Try the rifle without the forearm in place!, then try it with the forearm on. It's all about the bedding right there.

I had the hanger in the fore end drilled and tapped for a set screw to "tune" the barrel on my Number 1, and that solved the accuracy problem with my rifle. Number 1's are a pain in the ass if they don't shoot accurately out of the box, and some do. But, not all.
Vertical stringing is the clue that the barrel needs tuning.

Don

I have used John Lewis to fix several #1's for me, he does very good work..

http://www.cprifles.com/About.html

Hey now folks......with all the guys here acknowledging that Rugers need fixing (accurizing) after the sale.....wouldn't you think Ruger would sell them that way in the first place?????

An 1-1/4" group is a good group in a No. 1 or any factory rifle, and you have several loads that will do that..Use those loads and see if you can tweek them a bit...Jack Belk made a V with a screw out of aluminum for the forend of those #1s that inhanced accuracy in most cases..some folks have had success with glass bedding the foreend with particular attention to its meeting with the metal in the back against the action..Tweeking with the forend screw can give some positive results also..try it at half turn intervals.

Other than that, I would find 1-1/4" acceptable in any Ruger No.1,....Lots of folks approach this accuracy thing with unreasonable expectations...

quote:

....Lots of folks approach this accuracy thing with unreasonable expectations...

I'm like that!
I just got to keep trying. Trip after trip to the range. Hour after hour creating better loads. Thinking about it day and night. And then I just gotta go out there and test these loads on game ....
Aahhh ..... the noble gun!
May it never end!

I had an early 1A in 7x57 that I couldn't get to shoot regardless of the bullet of powder.

Then I happened to read an article in Shooting Times magazine on tuning the Ruger #1. It involved glass bedding the forend on either side near the receiver.

I followed the instructions and all of a sudden I was shooting Win brass, CCI LR primers, Hornady 139 SP over IMR 4831 into 1/2" 3 shot groups.

The kicker is that the article was in ST betweem 1975 and 1976. I bought the rifle in 1974.

Go to a 120 grain.