I am trying to decide which rifle to get. I want a paper puncher for shooting off the bench that is capable of very good accuracy. It will be a .223 REM.
Right off the bat, I'll say that custom rifles are too expensive up here....not an option. I have considered the Remington 700 VS, Remington 700 PSS and the Tikka Sporter. For those of you that aren't familiar with the Tikka model, it is a heavyweight target model with adjustable cheek piece, butt plate, etc. The prices of these are all within a couple hundred bucks. I am leaning towards the Tikka (being a Sako fan) but have not rulled out the Remingtons.
Savage rifles are not a consideration....I have to like to look at it as well as shoot well!
There are several Remingtons that will fill the bill including the VLS. That little dandy has a 26" barrel, laminated stock and weighs 9.3lbs. It's quite accurate. Savage also makes some very accurate rifles in .223. These are probably the two best options as well as the most accurate. Not far behind are the Tikka Heavy Barrel, the Howa (Legacy Sports) and Sako itself. The first two will give you the most accuracy for your dollar. I wouldn't give too much thought to Ruger, Browning or Winchester. All 3 companies have produced accurate rifles, but it's really a crapshoot better off avoided. Best wishes.
I have to disagree with Cal on the Winchesters. I have a factory Stealth in 22-250 that shot a .2" group last weekend. Granted, I don't do that all that time, but it is always less than .5". I did have to work with different loads to get that accuracy, but that's required with most other guns as well. I don't think you would be disappointed in the Stealth if you go that route.
Posts: 445 | Location: Connellsville, PA | Registered: 25 April 2002
Remington refuses to modify its inheritly dangerous trigger in spite of numerous accidents, injuries, and deaths, but instead incorporates the absurd and useless "J" lock on the bolt in the name of "safety". I can't get too enthusiastic about dealing with such a corporate entity, most especially considering the ever-rougher fit and finish of their products.
Buy the Tikka, but get it quick. The way the Bush adminstration is pushing the value dollar down to reward some of their corporate friends, all overseas products are going to be much more expensive in the near future.
Wait a minute, EagleEye, I just noticed you're from Canada! In a few more months you can buy American rifles at a relative bargain, so you may want to re-look some of those models rather than jump on the Tikka (see how the political reward works for U.S. manufacturers?). The USD is already down from a high of about $1.63C to around $1.34C today and is dropping rapidly. Looks like Bush may be the best President Canada ever had!
Well Stonecreek, yesterday the Canadian dollar dropped 1.33 thanks to the BSE (mad cow) problem. So much for our cheaper US vacation this summer! Fact is, we don't want the Loonie to get too valuable vis-a-vis the Yankee Doodle or we'll all be out of work. We depend on exports to the USA and a high Canuck Buck is bad for that.
Back to the issue at hand......I must say I am very interested in that Tikka but may stay with the mainstream. Does anyone out there have one of the Tikka Sporters? If so, what are your impressions?
The J-lock issue isn't a problem on the Remington tactical rifles (they don't have them)but would be on the VS model. I have never had an issue with Remington quality or safety. The downside for me is the added cost of a trigger job/replacement and a twist rate on the tactical model being setup for heavy bullets. As for the Winchester Stealth....have they improved their finishing quality? Every Winnie I have looked at over the past few years has felt like it has sandpaper in the action.
E-E, there's a guy in California modifiying the Tikka Sporters for NRA National Match competition. The Tikka stock is geared more towards ISSF 300 Meter shooting, which is all slow fire, and thus some modifications are necessary to make the Sporter's stock better suited to the rapid fire stages of the National Match course.
The only problem I see with Tikkas and almost all other varminters in 223 Rem is their glacially slow rifling (usually 1 in 12 or so), which makes them unusable with the heavy (69 to 80 grain) bullets necessary for the 300 and 600 yard stages of the NM course. The only factory exception are the Winchester Coyote and Stealth, which have 1 in 9 rifling and will stabilize up to 69 grain bullets. For heavier bullets, 1 in 8 will work to 80 grain, and 1 in 7 and 1 in 6.5 will stabilize 90 grain VLD bullets.
Sorry for my ignorance, but wnat does the ISSF stand for? Slow fire bench shooting is what I want the rifle for and the distances will be 300 yards max (which is the limit of our shooting range). Do you still think the Tikka is suitable for the task? I would likely reload 50-55 grain match bullets for it.
CZ has a pretty nice bench rifle as well , with a laminated and venelated stock .
Don't discount the Savage completely . The stainless laminate with the fluted barrel is not bad looking at all .......... that stock would be great for bench work , and the new ones do have the Accu-trigger ........
Posts: 1660 | Location: Gary , SD | Registered: 05 March 2001
quote:Originally posted by Eagle Eye: Sorry for my ignorance, but wnat does the ISSF stand for? Slow fire bench shooting is what I want the rifle for and the distances will be 300 yards max (which is the limit of our shooting range). Do you still think the Tikka is suitable for the task? I would likely reload 50-55 grain match bullets for it.
ISSF: International Shooting Sports Federation, the international shooting sports governing body. Used to be called UIT (Union Internationale de Tir)
If all you want is slow fire from the bench with a scope, I don't think you need to modify the Tikka like it's done for NRA highpower.
I do think you will be dissatisfied by the Tikka's 1 in 12 twist barrel because it won't stabilize bullets heavier than 55 to 60 grains. If you shoot in any kind of wind, 55 grain bullets tend to be affected too much by the wind. Sure, you can get wind drift charts for 55 grain, .224 bullets, but they are not very tolerant if your wind call isn't right on.
For full course (200, 300, and 600 yards) NRA highpower matches, I use an AR-15 (Rock River) with a 1 in 8 Wilson barrel and Black Hills 223 Rem loaded with Hornady 75 grain HPBT match bullets.
Posts: 2206 | Location: USA | Registered: 31 August 2002
Please don't wish a high Canadian dollar on me. I'm retired, and the biggest single part of my retirement is those Sociable Security checks each month. I also have a Canadian retirement so I tread a pretty fine line between the two dollar evaluations. Best wishes.
I do think you will be dissatisfied by the Tikka's 1 in 12 twist barrel because it won't stabilize bullets heavier than 55 to 60 grains. If you shoot in any kind of wind, 55 grain bullets tend to be affected too much by the wind.
Okay.....what about the Remington LTR (Light Tactical Rifle) with its' 1 in 9 twist? What do you think of it with its' 20" heavy barrel?
Another option with the Tika is to buy the 308 version and use 150's.
I own a Remington LTR in 308, I sent it to Remington as the base holes were off center. The rear of the action must have been ground too much also, as there was a 1/8" gap between 2, 1 peice base's, Badger and Leupold.
Havent shot the first round through it yet.
If they dont send me a new one I will never buy another Remington product again.
The Winchester stealth is looking better every day , that goes by, since I shipped it.
When ever it does get here I will let you know what I think, but you will probably already have made your choice by then.
I think you would be very happy with the tikka,I bought a continental 595 in 7mm-08 in march,it is the same as the sporter except it has a normal oiled stock.
I'm extremely happy with it,its accurate,well balanced light for a heavy barreled rifle & the magazine feeds so well,the action is very smooth,it has the same trigger as a friends sako 75 & it is easy to clean.
The rifle now has fired about 400 rounds,last weekend I fired over 100 rounds through it bought it home,ran a patch soaked with hoppe's no 9 down the bore,scrubbed it with a brush then the 3rd patch came out clean,no copper came out just the grey/black burnt powder residue.
I dont think you could go wrong with the tikka.
Good luck
Posts: 318 | Location: Australia | Registered: 24 November 2002
From reading your posts Eagle Eye, it seems like you are really trying to justify the Tikka to yourself. If that's what you really want, get it. I don't own one, but I've read allot, and I don't think you can go wrong with it. You asked a question earlier about the Stealth regarding finish quality. I am very pleased with mine. Everything fits together nicely and is well balanced. The weight of it makes it a pleasure to shoot off a rest. I have to admit that I have felt smoother actions on other rifles. The Stealth action is not polished like on others though, so I don't expect it to slide like butter. It's matte black, and to be honest, doesn't bother me at all.
Posts: 445 | Location: Connellsville, PA | Registered: 25 April 2002
No, I am not trying to justify the Tikka. I am trying to avoid making a mistake! It would be easiest to simply buy a Remington of some type but that route has many pitfalls. The Tikka is not perfect but may well be the best for the money. That is what I am trying to determine.
I do think you will be dissatisfied by the Tikka's 1 in 12 twist barrel because it won't stabilize bullets heavier than 55 to 60 grains. If you shoot in any kind of wind, 55 grain bullets tend to be affected too much by the wind.
Okay.....what about the Remington LTR (Light Tactical Rifle) with its' 1 in 9 twist? What do you think of it with its' 20" heavy barrel?
Another option with the Tika is to buy the 308 version and use 150's.
Of these two options, I'd much rather go for the second one. When you shoot the barel out (or when more cash comes handy) rebarrel with a Pac-Nor, Krieger, etc. in .223 with a 1-8 twist. You won't need anything tighter unless you plan on shooting the really heavy bullets (90 gr) needed for beyond 600 yards.
Just add a Pachmayr Deccelerator and the .308's recoil will be a moot point, if it is even a bother now.
I own a Sako 75 and its quality is fantastic. Tikkas are just as well made, except the external finish isn't nearly as nice.
Posts: 2206 | Location: USA | Registered: 31 August 2002
My Stealth always shoots consistently below .5", with a best 5 shot group of .2". The trigger was very easily adjusted and is quite crisp. The only thing I would change on it is the twist rate. Mine won't shoot 55 grainers very well. I had to settle on the 50's. If you intend to compete with this rifle, this 22-250 probably isn't the one for you. I'm not sure what the twist is with the Stealth .223, but you need to be able to shoot heavier bullets to buck the wind at the long ranges. I have read quite a bit about the Savage rifles being extremely accurate. I don't own one and I agree with most that they aren't the most attractive guns, but here's an option too. Buy a good Savage and with the money you save you can pretty it up. New stock, new trigger, etc. It all depends on your budget. Any one of the rifles you chose will shoot if you work with it.
Posts: 445 | Location: Connellsville, PA | Registered: 25 April 2002
Looks nice, but expensive and it looks like it would be restricted up here...too much hassle for me....bad enough buying regular hunting rifles.
BTW, I also have a Sako 75 and think they are great. I have considered the Sako laminated varmit model but they are rather pricey up here. The Tikka looks to be the best buy all round. That is to say.... best chance at very good accuracy while being a reasonable price. Having looked at the issue closer, I am leaning towards getting one in 308.
quote:Looks nice, but expensive and it looks like it would be restricted up here[/QB]
It's a detachable magazine BOLT ACTION rifle. I do not believe those are restricted in Canada, regardless of looks.
I can understand the price barrier, but I offered it as an example of the ne plus ultra. That RIFLE not only has been used to win the US national highpower rifle championship twice in a row, but was also designed by the ten-straight HP champion himself, David Tubb.
Posts: 2206 | Location: USA | Registered: 31 August 2002
We're really talking a crapshoot aren't we? I picked up my Remington VLS heavy barrel in 6mm Rem last night and had a Bushnell (old Bausch & Lomb) 4200 in 6x24 mounted on it. Comes out to $1770. Cdn. I can't believe I spent that much for a rifle. It has a 26" tube and laminated stock which is pretty attractive. It looks like Remington discontinued the checkering on laminated stocks. I've always had great luck with Remingtons, but from what I'm hearing lately, even that is risky. Some clunkers slip through what passes for a quality control with the Big Green. I don't have faith in any of them anymore. I looked long and hard at Tikka this time. The heavy barrel rifle mentioned earlier is supposed to be a winner. I personally like Sako but they are so pricey in Canada. I guess Tikka is the poor relative, but they certainly are good shooters. Whatever you select I hope you're happy with it. Best wishes.
Ya get the Tikka from the Tikka corporation.......LOL. Just kidding, Get the one you want, they are both good rifles. Personally, I like the Remington.
Posts: 492 | Location: Northern California | Registered: 27 December 2002
I have a custom 700 for sale in the classifieds that might be what you are looking for. Make an offer if you like, I might consider it as I am trying to fund another project. essentially its a custom 700 in 223ai, with a fast twist Shilen.
Doc
Posts: 70 | Location: Georgia | Registered: 12 May 2002
Eagle Eye, That was quite a jump in caliber Heh, they are nice though. I have 2 Rem VSS Senderos in 308 with Shilen Competition trigger, got one topped off with a Burris Signature 8-32x Target Fine Plex, and the other a Springfield Armory 4-14x56 2nd Generation Government. Both seem to be good shooters. I shoot 125 grain pills in the one with the Burris, which it seems to like well. Shoot 148 and 168 grain Match in the other. I think you will like yours.
Posts: 11761 | Location: Alabama | Registered: 26 November 2002
I got the 700P, not the LTR. It has a 26" parkerized pipe. I mounted a Leupold V3 in 4.5x14x40mm that I already had. I am going to try 125 grain of various makes along with 150 and 155 Sierra Matchking bullets behind Hogdon VARGET and Federal match primers. Does anyone have any favorite receipts for these components?
quote:Originally posted by Eagle Eye: I got the 700P, not the LTR. It has a 26" parkerized pipe. I mounted a Leupold V3 in 4.5x14x40mm that I already had. I am going to try 125 grain of various makes along with 150 and 155 Sierra Matchking bullets behind Hogdon VARGET and Federal match primers. Does anyone have any favorite receipts for these components?
Nice choice. If you want to know which loads the best shooters in the USA are using, look and ask here: National Match forums
I just finished the barrel break-in and rough scope sighting using some "el cheapo" military ball ammo. I got a 3-shot group measuring .6" @ 100 yards. It should do one ragged hole once I work up a good load for it with good bullets.
dear eagle eye i agree , you should buy the tikka(because i am a sako lover as well.) believe me-that 308 of your will give you lots of accuracy!!!! all this wildcats moving at 3600ft/s are bull shitt
Posts: 25 | Location: afrika-rsa | Registered: 09 June 2003
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