I’m in the market for a new AR (I haven’t owned an semi-auto in many years) but with all the new models on the market now I’m having trouble figuring out which one I really want. What should I be looking for in a quality, over the counter AR-15?

I’m not looking for a target competition rifle but as with any rifle I own, I feel the need to hit what I’m aiming at.

Hi Mick, it really depends on what you want to do with it. After you figure that out things get a lot easier.

For a plinking rifle the one I settled on is a S&W M4 5.45X39 Talo special. It's a little 16" chrome lined barrel with a collapsible stock.

The rifle will shoot roughly MOA with the Bulgarian surplus ammo and a red dot sight. It's accurate enough to be interesting, but here is what makes it a real winner for plinking. Right now you can buy 1080 rounds of ammo for this rifle for $150. When I bought mine you could get ammo for $120 for the same 1080 rounds. Compared to $400-$450 for .223 ammo this is a screaming good deal. When I bought my rifle I bought enough ammo to wear the rifle out.

I think it's great deal on a plinking rifle but it does have some draw backs. Mainly the ammo selection. The 5.45 is an odd ball so if you want to hunt with it you're not going to find much in the way of bullets for it.


Now my favorite AR of all time is an off the self rifle made by Sabre Defence. This is an honest to goodness 1/2 MOA rifle. The barrel is a lightweight stainless fluted 1 in 8" twist and will shoot about any weight bullet you put in it. I've replaced the trigger with a 3lb Timney unit and I'm running a NightForce 2-10X24 scope on it.

I use this one for casual target shooting, coyote and the occasional deer. It's light enough to hunt with and still extremely accurate. I've owned quite a few and this one is my all time favorite. It wasn't cheap but the quality is there.


Another good hunting and target rig I would suggest is the RRA coyote 20". I haven't talked to anyone that had one of these that wasn't very happy with it. RRA builds extremely accurate off the shelf rifles.


I've owned a few others but these are my favorites. I'm really partial to the heavy barreled rifles too but you've ruled those out already so we'll skip them.

Now I hunt and target shoot with an AR so I will try to steer you one direction. If you talk to somebody that thinks the world is coming to an end and wants absolutely the most dependable AR on the market he'll try to steer you to a COLT or Novenske. Several others come to mind too. These work great but will sacrafice a little accuracy for dependability.

Lot's of choices out there but like I said once you have an idea of what you want to do with the gun it'll help out a lot.

One thing I would suggest is a 20" barrel. the 16" seem to be the hot ticket right now but after owning both for a long time I much prefer the 20". You'll generally get an extra 80-100FPS with the 20" over the 16". Going from 20"to 24" doesn't yeild the same results. Another big advantage is the .223 has always had a piercing report to my ears. Moving the barrel out to 20" is a tremendous help. I don't like to wear ear plugs when I hunt.

Hope it helps.

Terry

TC1,

“I’m not looking for a target competition rifle” may have been the wrong words. Some of the guys I run into out at the range have a big Chunk of money wrapped up in their ARs. I’m not afraid of a little weight and I know I’m going to spend some money to get the quality I want. I think you gave me an idea with your Sabre Defence rifle. I think that’s more the direction I’m thinking about.

Nice rig.

RRA, Stag Arms, DPMS, Colt, S&W, whomever.............. the quality is there with the AR's of today. They all will shoot. Most will shoot well. Market(availability) has caught up with demand after the 11/4/08 big scare. Finding yourself something you are happy with at an affordable price shouldn't be tough. GHD

Rock Rivers are simply hard to beat. The smart thing is to build your own. You end up with exactly what you want, and know the quality of parts you put in it. You'll also save a little money.

It's hard to beat the $599 CMMG bargain bin rifle right now. I have one on order, and the reviews I've seen of this rifle are very favorable. Check out their website, cmmginc.com

A whole bunch has been written on ARs. Checkout http://www.AR15.com

What is your expectation of accuracy? Typical Colt 1 in 7 twist standard rifles will run 1.5-2.5" at 100 with 55 gr ball. Somewhat better with handloads.

My reworked Bushy 20" with a military 1 in 9 heavy barrel and a free floating handguard will do .4" with 69 gr Federal Gold Match and good handloads (with a 6.5-20 Leupold scope).

RRAs with a 20" barrel have a reputation for good accuracy out of the box.

Don't expect a 16" tube to do as well! They are handy and accurate enough ... but they're not match rifles.

Stock AR triggers tend to be less exciting than a cheap Timney in a bolt rifle Excellent AR triggers are NOT cheap!

Some great input, thanks guys. I’ve been thinking about getting an AR for a while now. It’ll definitely look odd sitting next to my little collection of No 1s.

30378 mentioned building one. Are the uppers interchangeable between the different manufactures? I would ask the guys out at the gun range but I don’t plan on being out there for a while. After all, why do I need those guys when I have you guys?

Yes, uppers are interchangable. A word of warning though, this can be very addictive.

Terry

LOL Terry

quote:

Now my favorite AR of all time is an off the self rifle made by Sabre Defence. This is an honest to goodness 1/2 MOA rifle. The barrel is a lightweight stainless fluted 1 in 8" twist and will shoot about any weight bullet you put in it. I've replaced the trigger with a 3lb Timney unit and I'm running a NightForce 2-10X24 scope on it.

What is the length of barrel on that Sabre Defence? Mid length? Nice looking rig!

quote:

Originally posted by TC1:
Yes, uppers are interchangable. A word of warning though, this can be very addictive.

Terry

Not True! You have small pin and large pin! Older Colts and Bushmaster rifles are large pin. A build out of new parts will match.

Yes it is true. Most of those old large pin rifles are shot up and gone, nobody makes them anymore and your chances of getting one are next to nill. Even if you happen to run into a large pin upper they make an adaptor.

For all intents and purposes the uppers are interchangable. If you want to buy a lower and buy several uppers for it you have no problems at all.

Terry

quote:

Originally posted by WyoMan:

quote:

Now my favorite AR of all time is an off the self rifle made by Sabre Defence. This is an honest to goodness 1/2 MOA rifle. The barrel is a lightweight stainless fluted 1 in 8" twist and will shoot about any weight bullet you put in it. I've replaced the trigger with a 3lb Timney unit and I'm running a NightForce 2-10X24 scope on it.

What is the length of barrel on that Sabre Defence? Mid length? Nice looking rig!

Hi WyoMan, that's a 20" barrel on that rifle.

Terry

If you want something small and light a 16" Carbine with the retractable stock is a good choice.
A good one is accurate enough to kill javellina at 300 yards.

If you want a heavier/longer gun then a 20" bbl is the way to go.

Rock River guns have a good reputation.

Over the years I have seen several hundred Colt and Rock River AR's shot with no problems, and good accuracy.

quote:

Hi WyoMan, that's a 20" barrel on that rifle.

Terry

Thanks!

Dale

There is literally zillions of ways to build an AR. There are lots of companies putting out good quality AR rifles, uppers and lowers.

The hard part is finding what you want in stock. Lots of companies are still way behind on orders.
Someone mentioned Rock River. If you want a Rock River AR. Find a place that has what you want in stock. Wait times for ordering from Rock River directly are about a year or so.
Del-Ton is one of my favorite AR vendors, but they are six to nine months out on filling orders.
You may need to do some internet hunting to get want in a reasonable amount of time.
I got lucky with my ARs. I bought them before the panic started.

I build my AR's. It's easy, fun and I can build a decent gun the way I want it.

AR#1. 20" guns don't need to be heavy. Without the bi-pod this one weighs in at 8.5 pounds fully loaded.


Old school carbine inspired by the IDF AR15s

Mickin,

I just went through a lot of what these guys are talking about. I ended up buying a stripped lower, and assembling the lower from parts from midway-usa, which was spotty to get the parts I wanted, but did eventually get everything. I ordered a complete RRA coyote upper when I bought the stripped lower, that took 6 months to come in. But eventually I built a RRA coyote rifle for just under 1,000, a complete rifle at the time was 1200-1600 if you could find one! One nice thing about the RRA Coyote is the .223 Wlyde chamber, so you can use .223 rem or 5.56x57 Nato ammo with decent results.

If your going to build one I highly recommend "the Complete Assembly Guide to the Ar-15" Very helpful with tips and suggestions, also Ar-15.com is great but tends to lean towards the tactical and self-defense side of ar's

I haven't shot for groups yet, but it is sighted in and I can pick of clay pigeons at 100yards as fast as I can sight and squeeze the trigger.

Good luck and ohh yeah it is addicting, I have built a second carbine lower with collapsible stock and am looking a building an upper now.

I like the Rock River AR's.
Take a close look. I am sure they make one close to what you might be looking for.

A lot of good advice given so far. The only think I can add is that, don't limit yourself to just 223/5.56. I just picked up a DPMS LR308 with 24 inch barrel, in 308. One of the most accturate AR's I own! I should have made the plunge into 308, long ago. Ammo is about the same as 223 and easier to hand load. Recoil is negligent but oh boy, the .5 MOA using Australian surplus is fun. Look at all your options and if you can try out some AR's before making a decision. Good luck and as said earlier, they are addictive. I have 9 of them in different configurations.

Don't short change yourself. BUY A COLT and don't look back. Holds its value, works everytime, and its a COLT. Personally I had a LEO model (6920) that I shot. I sold it for what I paid and now am getting another (6940) with a slightly different forend. Remember that you only spend smart $ once. BTW they can be had now for around $13-1400

There's actually a lot to know about ARs if one wants to look just a little deeper. This as great thread on another board that explains a bunch and points to a table of current vendors attributes:

http://www.ar15armory.com/foru...b-Sloyer-t50370.html

Good to know what you're buying when you spend a lot of money.

You should look into the new gas piston designs used in the HK and Sig. Less prone to jamming in the dirt, don't heat up the bolt. Bring your wallet, American Express or Visa are good.

The happy unspoken reality is that there are comparatively few AR part manufacturers (for major parts, at least), so no matter from whom you buy it, the parts likely all came from the same place. Many of the higher-end assemblers are beginning to make their own parts but the bigger issue is the care they take in assembling it.

The other reality is that there are really no wrong choices. Rifles from all the bigger companies all work splendidly. I won a state Service Rifle championship and made High Master with a Rock River CMP gun exactly as it comes from the box.

Pick out the barrel, fore end, etc configuration you like from any company's menu and you'll likely be quite satisfied. I favor the RR's, myself

Mark

If you are considering high end Sabre Defense the seriously look a a Noveske N4. IMHO the BEST! Then look LMT.

Cheaper side, RR is really solid but for the price you can't bear CMMG bargain bin!!

I would recommend buying a Noveske or LMT upper and building a lower yourself. Nice to choose your own trigger, stock, buffer weight, etc... Loweres are super easy to put together.

You are buying at a good time.

The online market is bottoming out on ARs right now, esp if you want a used AR.

Gun shops are over stocked with post election priced guns and they are NOT selling in my area. The days of a $1300 no name AR are over. Shops didnt seem to get the memo.

Manufacturers are caught up and folks losing their jobs realize they don't need six AR rifles.

Palmetto armory (google it) has 30rd mags for $8 or so. PMags are fetching less than $10.

The typical M4 configuration can be had for $800 and up. I have seen them go for $700 at times.

The target ARs are a bit more. My RRA shoots .5MOA with the first load I tried in it. They are in the $900+ range now.

If you have a C&R FFL, and want to go with a 5.45, Century now has 5.45 for $120 per 1080rd tin. And free shipping over $500.

Finally, ammo is starting to fall as well. Tula (makes Wolf) is now $215 per K for .223. Aimsurplus.com has it in stock.

If you want a nice used AR, go over to AR15.com and look in the EE ( Equipment exchange) for some great deals.