I've just come by a rifle in .221 Fireball and would appreciate the benefit of the experience of those of you who have used this cartridge in a rifle rather than pistol.

I have a pretty good supply of the much-vaunted AA2200 that I'm thinking should be a great match for this little cartridge with 40 and 45 grain bullets. Any recipies for this powder? How about other favorite powders, particularly IMR 4227, RL-7, or AA1680? THANKS!

I have a CZ 527 in .221 Fire Ball that is unreal accurate for a factory rifle using AA1680 and the 40V-Max with 7 1/2-BR primers. I'm a safety first reloader but in spite of that with an "under max" "book" load I'm chrono'ing 3,500+ . Maybe I have a fast barrel but I was truly amazed at the performance that round provides in a rifle, we all knew it would for many years (glad someone finally listened).
My first .221 was in an XP100 that cost $105.00 new in the box. At one point in it I settled on RL7 as the powder of choice. I tried RL7 in the new CZ and the accuracy was great but alas the chrono tells all and it was way slow compared to the 1680 and the accuracy was a push. Even a dumb ole fart like me can figure that one out .
Good luck and I'd be interested in what ya come up with. What kind of rifle anyway?

It's a custom job on a Mini Mark X action that I found here on the AR classifieds. It will be a week or so until I can get around to shooting it, but I'm planning to spend a night or two loading some samples so I can see what seems to work best with it.

I have some Sierra 40 gr HP Spitzers which I thought I'd try first. I'll probably go with a modest load of AA 1680 and something similar with AA 2200 to see how they do. I take it from your reference to "book" that you're speaking of loads from various manuals, all of which I have list only loads from handgun length barrels.

I have a CZ 527 in 221 Fireball. It shoots just about everything well. My favorite load is 40gr Vmax or BTs with 15gr of 2400/Win SRP. I settled on this powder for a couple of reasons. One, it is extemely accurate/fast and two, the barrel stays much cooler than with other powders.

Here is some AA 2200 load data.
http://accuratepowder.com/data/surplus/A%20DP%202200%20...20all%20calibers.pdf

Steve, thanks for the info and for the link on AA2200 -- I had not found it previously. What kind of velocity are you getting with you load of 15 gr/2400?

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
What kind of velocity are you getting with you load of 15 gr/2400?

About 3400fps.
https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/...=418106717#418106717

quote:

I have some Sierra 40 gr HP Spitzers which I thought I'd try first. I'll probably go with a modest load of AA 1680 and something similar with AA 2200 to see how they do. I take it from your reference to "book" that you're speaking of loads from various manuals, all of which I have list only loads from handgun length barrels.

Actually it's from the Accurate Arms web site same as is that link to Data Powder. I downloaded the condensed data book then had to back up a page to the place it offers specific cartridge load data. In some manuals I'm over max but as I said there is Zero pressure in "MY" rifle with "this" lot of powder, even on hot days.

Here's what they are using for barrel length and the data. As long as I'm posting their data I'll tell you I worked up safely with zero pressure signs to 20.2 grains of 1680 with the 40 V-Max for 3,525ish off the chrono. I could go hotter and the accuracy was still there, but why? Meters like crazy as well.
Sounds like a good score on the rifle, good luck with it and keep us posted.

Gun DOUGLAS Max Length 1.400"
Barrel Length 24" Trim Length 1.380"
Primer REM 71/2 OAL Max 1.830"
Case REM OAL Min 1.780"

START LOADS MAXIMUM LOADS Cartridge
Bullet HDY 35 VMAX 1680 16.8 3092 1680 18.7 3514 51,700 1.775"
NOS 40 BT 1680 18.4 3152 1680 20.5 3582 51,700 1.900" *
2015 18.0 2760 2015 20.0 3137 35,700 Compressed
2230 18.9 2649 2230 21.0 3011 38,300 Compressed
NOS 45 SP 1680 16.5 2819 1680 18.3 3203 51,300 1.765"
2015 18.0 2659 2015 20.0 3022 47,100 Compressed
2230 18.9 2600 2230 21.0 2955 49,500 Compressed
HDY 50 SX 1680 16.0 2691 1680 17.8 3058 51,500 1.825"
2015 17.6 2557 2015 19.5 2906 45,600 Compressed
2230 18.9 2556 2230 21.0 2905 49,500 Compressed
NOS 55 SBT 1680 15.3 2600 1680 17.0 2950 52,000 1.850" *
2015 17.1 2498 2015 19.0 2839 48,700 Case Full
2230 18.0 2431 2230 20.0 2763 51,600 Compressed
* Over SAAMI Maximum OAL

I can't remember my load (its at home) but its using a casefull of 4198. It fills the case and is compressed load, but very accurate. Full little round, the new barnes varmit grenade is kind of built for the thing. blows the snot out of PD's.without blowing out your ears. Tried lil gun but didn't get decent accuracy. Do a check over at predator masters, a bunch of those guys use 221's and there's quite a bit of info there

Thanks for all of the comments, guys.

The Accurate Arms data shows 1680 as being something of a "wonder" powder in this cartridge. Between 1680 and 2200 I should be able to find a good load.

Butch: I have a fair supply of IMR 4198, but have always shied away from using it due to its relative difficulty in metering. Its faster cousin, IMR 4227 meters great, but I'm fearful that it is somewhat on the fast side for the Fireball.

Now if I could just find some brass

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:
Thanks for all of the comments, guys.

The Accurate Arms data shows 1680 as being something of a "wonder" powder in this cartridge. Between 1680 and 2200 I should be able to find a good load.

Butch: I have a fair supply of IMR 4198, but have always shied away from using it due to its relative difficulty in metering. Its faster cousin, IMR 4227 meters great, but I'm fearful that it is somewhat on the fast side for the Fireball.

Now if I could just find some brass

Good luck on the brass, I shoot 4 rounds that use that case and the word is this summer they will release some.

My personal experiences with 1680 in the .221 concur with the wonder powder theory. It's also a powder that meters so well I'm comfortable just throwing charges with Reddings Competition BR30 or a Harrel, not so with most powders going into small cases.
Your gonna love it, it's a gas of a round!

Yeah, I got a handful of brass along with the rifle, but it's clear that it will be a while before fresh factory stuff is available. Of course, I could reform some .222 or .223, but it's a lot of trouble and neck walls would likely have to be thinned. I'll probably just work up loads with the brass I have and wait until some fresh stock is available to do production loading.

quote:

Originally posted by Stonecreek:


The Accurate Arms data shows 1680 as being something of a "wonder" powder in this cartridge.

:

AA has some pretty impressive stats with 1680 and 40gr BTs. 20.5gr of 1680/40gr BT at 3582fps. They also list 35gr Vmax at 18.7gr max of 1680/3514fps and 45gr Nosler SP at 18.3gr max 1680/3203fps. Seems odd that the 40gr bullet has 2 grains more powder than the 35gr bullet at similar pressures.
Sierra ,Nosler and Hornady all list 18.3gr or less of 1680/40gr bullets as max.
I started piercing primer with 1680 when I went above 18.8gr of 1680. In my experience AA is very optimistic with their 40gr/1680 data. YMMV

Steve they might well be in some rifles and with some lots of powder, not mine however with the 8 pounder I have. That's why I specified in "my" rifle, and "this" lot of powder.
I don't believe near enough attention is paid to lot to lot variances in powders or the differences from one chamber to the next. Good point! For some rifles book max is too much and all the books seem to vary. Go figure.
Start low and work up slow as always.

Steve,

I also noticed the apparent discrepancy in the AA data and take it somewhat with a grain of salt. I'll be starting my 40 grain loads somewhat below their "maximum". Besides, I regard this gun of more of an improved Hornet than a wannabe .223. I have a plethora of .222's, .223's, .222 Magnums, and .22-250's when I want to go "faster". What I want from the .221 is a mild, pleasant shooting mid-range cartridge, possibly without some of the inconsistencies inherent in the ancient (but lovable) Hornet with its obsolete design.

Montdoug: Couldn't say it better myself. Every rifle (and lot of powder) is a rule unto itself. I think this is especially true as case capacity goes down and the differences are magnified.

quote:

Montdoug: Couldn't say it better myself. Every rifle (and lot of powder) is a rule unto itself. I think this is especially true as case capacity goes down and the differences are magnified.

Stonecreek your right on all counts but especially this one. I shoot boo-coo sub.22 caliber wildcats from the .17 Ackley Hornet on up. Loading them gives a guy a whole new awareness of how much one lot of a powder to the next can vary. A great example of that is coincidentally something that happened with the powder in question, 1680.
A friend designed a wildcat on the .218Bee case with the shoulders blown forward to 40 degrees and necked down to .20 caliber, we call it the .20 Killer Bee, there are 5 of em in existence one each for the 5 guys that threw-in on the reamer. My friend worked up his loads using 1680 the 32 V-Max and 7 1/2BR primers at the same time I did using the exact same components. We were both using the same length Pac-Nor Super Match 1 in 12 3 groove barrels. After we were done we compared notes. Long story short, we both ended up with velocities a bit over 3,800fps. My best accuracy as well as his (one hole, brag-brag) ended up at a velocity just under 3,800fps 3,780ish in mine to be exact. the odd thing is that with the lot of 1680 he has he's using over 18 grains and with my lot I get the same velocity using 17.2 grains. Not a scientific test by any means but everything's as similar as possible except powder and primer lots.

I see too we both like the step ladder approach to varminting. As in one each (or more) .22LR, .22Mag, .22 Hornet, .22 K-Hornet, .221 Fire Ball, .223, .22-250 etc. etc. Hmmm?? I need a Triple Duce .

Great thread guys. Glad to see so many 221 Fireball fans. Mine is a Rem 700 LVSF Light Varmint Stainless Fluted. I replaced the B&C synthetic stock with a Boyd's Thumbhole Varminter when I couldn't keep the same point of impact during load development. The rigid stock solved all those problems.

Regarding loads - I've had good success with RL-7 and Lil'Gun, Lil'Gun providing better velocity but both are very accurate with 40 grain Sierra BlitzKing and 40 grain Nosler Ballistic Tip bullets and CCI BR4 primers. The Fireball is the only small capacity center fire I own but I'm pretty sure this is true with all small case cartridges. The milder primer made a noticible difference in accuracy. I think after reading the posts in this thread I'm going to have to take a serious look at AA1680.

Welcome to the site flashhole. Any friend of the .221 is a friend of mine .

I have tried the Hornady 40 and 50 grain V-Max bullets with Re7, LilGun and IMR 4198 powder with Rem 7 1/2, Rem 6 1/2 and Fed 205 Match primers. I now have reloaded 500 rounds while working up reloads for my Remington 700 LS Fireball rifle with a Burris 4-16 X scope. I have adjusted the trigger pull down to three pounds, glass bedded the action with about 1 and 1/2 inchs of the barrel, the rest of the barrel is free floated and I had a gunsmith lapp the bolt locking lugs. I got a number of sub one inch groups and the one that is the best in my rifle is using the Hornady 40 Gr V-Max bullet with 18.6 Gr of Re7 powder in Remington cases with a Fed 205M primer. Shooting off a benchrest I get .4 to .6 inch groups , anymore thats about the best I can shoot with any rifle , could have something to do with being 72 years old. I like the idea of getting a Boyd Thumb Hole varmint stock , the forearm on my sporter stock rifle is to small. A varmint stock may help me pick on the prairie dogs.

This is an interesting thread. I own 2 Fireballs, One is a Remington LS(and tuck my lugs are like yours) the other one was a wal mart, matt/tupperware spl. that has been worked over by Speedy Gonzales which included a Hart barrel(thanks Cliff) and now has a Boyd's JGS laminated stock on it.
I haven't done much with either one but intend to in the spring. Thanks for the input, to all who replied.

Stonecreek,
If you need some cases, I have a little short of 500, let me know and just replace them when you can.

tuck,
I was glad to see some real world numbers regarding Re7. Re7 is an excellent powder! I have a Sako/ Douglas in .222 that shoots little bitty groups with it. Clean Too. And what does 72 have to do with it?

Ya'all take care.

Stepchild