I am very happy to report that after bedding the new Ruger M77 it is a fair shooter. With 117 grain Hornady BTSP's and H-4350 it will now group between 3/4" and 1 1/4" with all charge weights I have tried. This is a significant improvement over the mostly terrible groups I was getting.

The original reason I purchased this rifle was to introduce my son and daughter to deer hunting. Now that I have a load that I am content with for my use (after just a little more tweaking) I need to start working on a light load for them.

I'm thinking 100 grain Hornady I-locks at around 2,600 fps. Anyone have any experience or suggestions?

That would be a good load to start with. I have also used the 87 gr. Hotcores with some good success at those velocities.

Steve,

Nice rifle! The .257 and H4350 / IMR4350 just plain works superbly well.

There are lots of variations, but I'd try about 43gr. of H4350 and the 100gr. Sierra Game King. That should be around 2750fps or so - in my rifle (Rem M7MS it barely moves the scope. Recoil is pretty much nil.

Another alternative would be 35-36 gr. of H4895 and the 100gr. bullet. Hodgdon lists that around 2650fps or so.

I'd still try to make H4350 work though. It just works superbly in that cartridge.

I did the same thing for my daughter's .257 Roberts when she was 12. Her light load is a 100-grain Nosler Partition over the starting load of IMR4350 listed in the Nosler manual. She has shot four deer with this load, and it has performed great. SHe still uses this load in her Roberts, but now shoots a 9.3x62 for larger game.

Hope this helps.

Dave

22 to 24 grains of Blue Dot.. with 100 grain ballistic tip...( work up from about 20 grains)

SR 4759.. 25 grains to 27.5 grains...

IMr 4198 ( or H 4198) work up between 25 to 30 grains.. 100 grain Ballistic tip

RL 7... 28 to 30 grains

RL 10 30 to 32 grains...

all recommend 100 or 115 grain ballistic tips..

much lower recoiling...

I had a grandpa from Texas who took his two grandsons out deer hunting for the first time with 257 Roberts.. one was 10 and the other 12..

their load was 22.5 grains of Blue Dot with a 100 or 115 grain Ballistic Tip..

on 4 different family members farms in Texas, Arkansas, Louisiana and Oklahoma, both boys took a total of 7 deer their first season.... the older boy got 3 and the young one got 4..

There were 2 proud boys, one proud grandpa and two very proud mom's...

I use the 100 gr Speer Spitzer's. My rifle liked them better than other bullets that I tried. I'm just under the max IMR4350 in the Speer book and it's far more accurate than I. One shot kills with negligible recoil.

Steve, I noticed you said "after bedding"! What kind of bedding job did you do? What loads did you successfully use with the 117 gain bullets?
Thanks, Peter.

My wife uses a model 77 Ruger Ultra-lite in 257 Roberts, and we have been using factory loaded Remington 117 grain Core-Locts for the past two years because they were given to us by a friend, and we have made 9 one shot kills at ranges from 80 yards to almost 250 yards with out any problems or excessive meat damage.

Thanks everyone! Some great info above.

Seafire, I will try your recomendation with Reloader 10. That may just be the best way to get them started shooting the center fire.

Peter, I bedded the rifle with accra-glass. This is my first Ruger and though I've bedded a few Winchester M70's I was hesitant to tackle this one because of the angled screw into the recoil lug. I trimmed some wood out of the recoil lug recess and the tang area. I bedded these two areas, three inches of the barrel and free floated the rest.

I had tried several different loads with 87 grain Sierras, 100 grain Hornadys and 117 grain Hornadys and H-4350, H-414, H-380, IMR-4895, and Varget. The reason I tried so many different loads before bedding was because I have heard that the Ruger and the 257 Roberts could both be finicky.

My best group before bedding was 1 1/4". That was with the 117 Hornady and 4350, I just can't remember what the charge weight was right now. Most loads were between 2" to 4". I tried different torque on the stock screws but that didn't help.

The loads I have tried with the 117 grain bullet since the bedding are 41.6, 41.9, 42.2, 42.5, 42.8, and 43.0 grains of H-4350 with an OAL of 2.900. 41.9 and 42.2 grains were the tightest grouping, both were between 5/8" and 3/4" three shot groups.

I'm no gunsmith but with a little patience and alot of trial and error I've managed to get all my centerfire rifles under 1 inch.

I've also used Sierra's 90 grain HP for deer.....it's amazingly functional.....and the recoil is quite tolerable.

I have three rifles chambered in 257 Roberts and all shoot very well. One shoots 45 grains of H-4350 with 100 grain Nosler Partitions into 1/2" at 100 yards for three shots. It's a Ruger Model 77 Mk II. I didn't bed it at all, but removed the bump in the forend of the stock so the barrel is free floating, and I did a trigger job on it; plus I polished the barrel bore with JB Bore Paste to smooth it up.
The other two shoot the lighter 90 grain Sierra HPBT's, and Speer 87 grain bullets to the same accuracy as the Ruger with 100 grain bullets. RL-15 and IMR-4350 are the powders that work best in the other rifles.

Don

Edit to add: I use a 20x scope for load developing, then switch to a lower power hunting scope after finding the best load.

For a youngster I would opt for the 85 gr. GS customs HP..It is a real killer of deer size animals and you can drive it at about any desired velocity and it will work fine......I use it in my 250-3000 with mild loads of arond 3000 FPS and recoil is almost non existant.

You did not say how old your children were, so its hard to say, but even your load is pretty mild in recoil. I would say a 12 year old could handle it very well indeed...

I started all my kids and grandkids out very young and with a very light weight .223 and the Hornady 60 gr. HP..It is a great deer load to 200 yards, but I made the kids keep to 100 yards or less...

The first 'centre-fire' I ever fired was a hollowed out stock feather weight 410 shotgun. I must haveen about eight. The recoil never bothered me. I had my eight year old son shooting my 44mag. Too young! (Too much muzzle whip). My ten year old handled the 12 gauge just fine. Not too many shots 'though. I would say the 257 Roberts or 250 Savage would be a perfect caliber for any youngster. Personally, I just love shooting my 'silenced' hornet with it's zero muzzle lift and no louder than an HMR report. I can watch the bullet strike. Before the suppressor, the muzzle lift would 'lose' the 'sight picture'. And the report was a 'bit' sharp. (That suppressor increased the length by 2 inches and improved the ballance - it is very light, being made from very thin walled 4140 steel with aluminium second and third baffles).

The pressure curve for IMR 3031 will give much lower recoil without the total loss of velocity. The Sierra 90 & 3031 is a great combo if I remember right. (don't have my notes at work)

Seafire and Bignate

You both alluded to certain powders having less recoil, I have never heard of that. Would yall please elaborate?

Perry

quote:

Originally posted by perry:
Seafire and Bignate

You both alluded to certain powders having less recoil, I have never heard of that. Would yall please elaborate?

Perry

I'm no ballistics's expert but the burn rate of powders and it's charge weight seem to have more of an effect on recoil. The difference of ten grains of bullet is a less perceivable change than the powder.

The pressure curve is how they represent the burn rate of that charge. If it has a higher peak that is sharper vs one that is gradual but wider the performance will be very similar but the sharper one is perceived a sharper jab type of recoil, while the wider one is more of a push. Nate

More powder ignited equals more muzzle ejecta---i.e. gas coming out the business end. Think for every action, there's an equal and opposite reaction. In this case, more out the front means more pushing the rifle back.

LWD

Makes sense, Thanks.

Perry

My .257 with an 87 grain FP at 2600 fps has accounted for a number of mule deer. not a lot of noise or damaged meat either. roger

bartsche, that's a very mild load. Mule deer are not exactly small, right? Very interesting that your load did the job. I always had the idea that one needed a heavy bullet at those velocities to do the job properly. Then again I have just seen what a 55gr bullet with a muzzle velocity of around 2680 fps does to a goat at 80m, so I'm convinced. (It looked like a 308 wound channel but with smaller holes in the skin).

My load is 39.0gr/IMR 4064 with a 100gr TSX. The load chronos at 2900fps and all the bullets touch. That load has accounted for numerous hogs and deer not to mention one cow elk, shot between the eyes though.
Its recoil in VERY mild. So much so you can watch the bullet hit the target. AND out of a 100 animals shot I have only recovered 1 bullet.

Perry

quote:

Originally posted by 303Guy:
bartsche, that's a very mild load. Mule deer are not exactly small, right? .

You are correct on both counts. These were bullets designed for the 25-35 which rifle I didn't own. Many of the older Colorado locals grew up using the 25-35 .
Curiousity got the best of me and I desided to load the .257 down to 25-35 ballistics and see what it would do on deer. I intentionally did not attempt any long or difficult shots. The few deer that were shot with this combo died quickly. roger

So..... why are most of us so hell-bent on bigger calibers that smack us on the eyebrow???? Hell, the Roberts/250 even looks better! And like I said, having seen that goat's insides .....

When I shoot my 303 I have to concentrate on pulling the stock firmly into my shoulder! I actually like a shorter stocked rifle with a high scope, that I can hold with my head up straight. I just gotta get me a 25 caliber! (See what you guys have done now!)

Ummmm..... is the 257 Roberts inherently accurate?

quote:

Originally posted by 303Guy:
Ummmm..... is the 257 Roberts inherently accurate?

The same as any other cartridge

I understand you kiwis use the 25 Epps in your Enfields. That should be a dandee cartridge. roger

I haven't come accross any 25 Epps. Plenty 303/25's around but they seem to be fading (or have faded). I cannot imagine why 'though. There was also a 257-303 - I have no idea what it is. Maybe it is the 303 Brit necked down. The 303/25 has it's shoulder further back for some reason. If I could find an Epps barrel or someone with a reamer .... mmmmm. In fact, I cannot even find data on the 25-303 Epps. No case dimensions, Case capacity, load data, nothing! (Figuring out load data is not really rocket science).

quote:

Originally posted by perry:
My load is 39.0gr/IMR 4064 with a 100gr TSX. The load chronos at 2900fps and all the bullets touch. Perry

Perry,

That's the exact load my step Dad used in his 257 Roberts 60 years ago, with the best 100 grain bullet of that era. His rifle was a heavy varmint rifle, custom made by Rk. Nelson for groundhog hunting in PA.

Don

quote:

Originally posted by 303Guy:
I haven't come accross any 25 Epps.** :** In fact, I cannot even find data on the 25-303 Epps. No case dimensions, Case capacity, load data, nothing! (Figuring out load data is not really rocket science).

I may be suffering from a little grey matter burn out here. If anybody knows what I'm thinking to know about just step right in and hang out a light. roger

Perry,

as explained simply above.. less powder less recoil..due to characteristics of powders also, 2 different ones can give you the same MV will having a noticable difference in recoil..

For less recoil in something like a 257 Roberts... consider 3031 or powders in similar or faster burn rate..

equivalents would be Benchmark, RL 10, H322

faster would be powders like IMR or H 4198, both 4227s, SR 4759, 2400, 5744 or Blue Dot....

while also giving slower MV, they also still are quite effective with an appropriate bullet ( which doesn't have to be a premium spendy one), out to 250 yds which takes in about 99% of all deer taken in this country...

There is a lot of choices, but you don't read about them in reload manuals.. because high velocity, premium bullets, cases full of slow powders is what companies and hunting mags try to convince us all, that is what we need..

a 257 R loaded up to old 25 Rem capabilities is more than adequate for 200 yds..

that 90 grain Sierra HP listed above, or the 85 grain Ballistic Tip or 100 grain Ballistic Tip, with an Mv of say 2200 to 2400 fps, would be a dandy deer set up.. light recoiling, 200 yd capabilities...

would recoil like a 22.250 or so, or even less..

Seafire
Thanks for the info.

So for example: m.v being the same a faster burning powder will recoil less due to its smaller volume? i.e Benchmark will have less recoil than H4350???

Perry

As most know, my favorite 25 calibers are the 25-35 Win. and the 250 Savage, both go back to my immediate family and kinfolks and years of using them and I have used and observed them used on deer, antelope and elk with success...

They used factory 117 gr. corelokts or Win soft points in the 25-35 and factory 100 gr. Silvertips or corelokts in the 250s. and they all worked fine, even on elk..In fact it was during the big depression and they used whatever they could get their hands on..

I still hunt with the 25-35 with any factory ammo or the 117 gr. RN hornady handloaded..
The 250 Savage works well at 2800 FPS with about any of todays 100 gr. bullets. The secret of conventional bullets is to not push them too fast, extra stress on them makes them come apart.

That 117gr RN is an amazing bullet. Obviously, it works at 25-35 velocities. I've used it with good success in 257's and a 257AI with good results. And Weatherby loads it in their 257 (which has always seemed odd to me)

You got me there, bartsche. What did I say? Oh, ... the 257 Roberts might seem to be inherently accurate because the rifles for it were specifically built for accuracy. Then again, it might have something to do with mild pressure, slower pressure rise, longer peak pressure duration and less recoil, all of which produces less barrel vibration?

Has anyone found a round nose bullet to be more accurate than say, a BTSP? Does this only apply to heavier bullets at the edge of a particular barrels stabilization?

Regarding the 25-35. Does it always come in lever action? I see the SAAMI specs for it are for lever actions but in a single shot or bolt gun it should come close to the 250 savage. (It's such a nice sized cartridge).

I use H-380 in my 257 roberts Imp. and for varmits i use hornady 87sp's, and deer and antalope I use 120 hornadys. You'll have to work up your own load but H-380 work very well for me in a lot of different calibers, all sub MOA.

Couple of years ago, I got an email from a Granddad down in Texas.. he had two grandsons, that he was taking hunting for the first time.. neither boys' dads were around any more...

Grandpa had a pair of 257 Roberts... the boys had hunting access to family farms in Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas and Oklahoma..

both boys were like 11 and 12 yrs old...

the total number of deer they took numbered 7, hunting in 4 states on family farms...

the load I had recommended that lead to this success was 24 grains of Blue Dot, and a 100 grain ballistic tip...

that is one of the cherished emails I have received on folks thanking me for some of the results they got using these loads.. it is especially rewarding when it is from kids, as they is why I originally did all the work for...