I'm looking into getting a AR set up to do some varmint hunting, mainly coyotes. I have access to acres and acres of pasture land that is loaded up with the stanky creatures. I have, on many a trip, called in 4 or 5 running in a pack. I drop one without issue but would be much more apt to drop 2 maybe even 3 with a semi-auto AR. Please don't confuse this with me thinking that I'll go out and become Rambo and just "mow" down the area trying to kill coyotes as they run off as that is NOT what I'm wanting an AR for. But I would like a light recoiling, good platform for a .223 that is accurate and with those items being put out there I was leaning towards the idea of the AR.

My biggest question is which brand; Bushmaster, DPMS, Rock River Arms, Armalite, etc???

Whichever I go with will have a 20+" barrel in a heavy profile...

Can y'all give some good insight on brand choice?

Greetings,
That is a hard question to answer, as all of the makes you list are good products, and you can't really go wrong with any of them. I have four AR style rifles, 223,243wssm,20 practical,308. They are all from various folks, mixed parts, amd they all shoot 1/2 moa or less. There are a couple of things to look for, first is the barrel, second is the trigger. A great barrel is a must have item, followed by a good trigger. I have had very good luck with Jard, but the others are also good. The one I hear the most problems with is the McCormic one. A lot of guys like the Rock River two stage. Am not sure if anyone makes them anymore, but stay away from cast receivers, always use forged ones. Try to send a barrel maker the bolt you intend to use with the unit. That way it can be headspaced properly. Any gun is just an assemblage of parts, and I like to pick and choose the ones I use. I still have the first ever made flat top upper. It was a weaver scope base, screwed to the top of a receiver with the carry handle removed. As far as market shares go, Rock River is number one, with the rest trickling down to the small custom branded maker. The latest one I have just built is the 20 practical.Chambering by White Oak Armament. At over 4000 fps, a real joy to shoot. The least enjoyable to shoot would be the 243wssm. It is a loud and harsh round, better suited to a bolt action rifle. The only rifle I have that was from a munufaturer would be the DPMS 308. A really good rifle, and fun to shoot at long range prairie dogs. Hope this doesn't confuse you much, just a very brief sampling of what can be done with the black rifle.
Wayne

Rock River.

I like the DPMS Panther Bull Twenty-Four (RFA2-B24) and I like the Bushmaster Varmint Special (PCWVMS 24-9SS)... The Rock River Arms 20" Varmint A4 (AR1520) is a snazzy looking unit too...

Good lord, the decisions are endless...

Then if I get into having someone put one together for me I have even more decisions...

So build it yourself! Shilen makes the match barrels ready to go, the rest is screwing parts together Amazing rifles. I like the Rock River units.

I guess I could read some books on how to assemble and what tools I need to put one together...

Any idea how hard it is for someone to go from "AR Ignorant" to "AR Builder"?

I believe there are about 100 places online to get the M16 armorer's manual. M16 wrenches are available in a similar number of places. Some mechanical skills are required, not a machinists degree or tooling however. There are so many AR-15 sites it'll stagger you.

quote:

Originally posted by Planemech:
I believe there are about 100 places online to get the M16 armorer's manual. M16 wrenches are available in a similar number of places. Some mechanical skills are required, not a machinists degree or tooling however. There are so many AR-15 sites it'll stagger you.

Awesome, I have basic mechanical skills and such so I'll look into it... Thanks again...

Colt or Colt.

Go with either the Rock River or the DPMS. Both are great rifles.

quote:

Originally posted by Dawn2Dusk:

quote:

Originally posted by Planemech:
I believe there are about 100 places online to get the M16 armorer's manual. M16 wrenches are available in a similar number of places. Some mechanical skills are required, not a machinists degree or tooling however. There are so many AR-15 sites it'll stagger you.

Awesome, I have basic mechanical skills and such so I'll look into it... Thanks again...

WWW.AR15.com They have a how-to with pictures.

or if you want to go to the nth degree - look into JP arms

I'm going to have to agree with the others on this one. If you build it, it will be your creation and you can get just about everything your hear desires.

I suggest getting a fluted barrel for cooling purposes plus it looks great.

I bought a Bushmaster after a good summer of firefighting for the Forest Service when I was in college. I like it a lot and it is really accurate. Great Coyote rifle!

National match for accuracy, Rock River or Bushmaster you cant go wrong. 20 inch tube is all you need and make sure its a heavy barrel. If you hunt with hearing protection get a Wilson Combat muzzle brke and you can watch the bullets hit.

Perry

I've built several types of AR, if you can put a hot water heater in your house, you can assemble one. It's more plumbing than smithing...

I like DPMS uppers and lowers, bolt and action parts, J-P triggers and now that Douglas is turning their own match style barrel I'd use one of them, but there are a lot of good barrel manufacturers out there.

You'll be pleasantly surprised how quickly you can engage distant targets with a well set up Ar-15 type rifle and the yotes will be dismayed.

+1 on AR15.com for info, but beware some of those fellows are too radical for Accurate Reloading's Political Forum.

this is truly an apples vs. oranges question in a lot of ways... buy the best barrel you can afford, shoot good ammo, or reload and work up a good load for your particular gun...

for box stock guns... well, one you don't have to do much too, I've had good success with the Wilson Combat guns...

good luck

I cannot vouch for the other brands either way. My wife recently bought me a Rock River AR set up very close to the Coyote rifle they just started advertising.

Black Hills 60 gr V-Max, 3 shots 100 yards-- less than 1/3 of an inch.

Handloads using 10X and 55 gr V-Max bullets-- less than 1/3 of an inch.

Tactical muzzle break works well, kicks like a 22LR.

Aaron

quote:

Originally posted by KINO:
Colt or Colt.

You don't know much about AR's, do you?

Delta HBAR's shoot no doubt about it, it's finding one used that's the killer.

I have a very good friend in OK that is a gunsmith and shooter. He rates the Armalite as #1 and the Rock a very close 2nd. He puts BM and Colt as #3 and then all the rest. That's based on being about the only gunsmith in the area and he gets to work on a lot of these for that reason and also because he is the head of the practical shooters group for that part of the state.

My dealer here in TN also rates Armalite as #1 with the BMs 2nd and Rock and Colt a close 3rd. He is not a gunsmith. So for me the decision isn't which one to buy but which to buy first!

Seriously from what I get from these guys I don't think you'll go wrong with any of the choices. But 3 for 3 of guys that I ask opinons of rate the Armalite first. For some less money you have the Bushmaster and Rock. I think I'll start there but know I will have a Colt somewhere in the my future. I have had one of the Rock River varmint models on my grubby little hands and it was very, very nice. The CAR Entry model is another one I got to play with. They seem to be a very solid product.

Also, I too am in the southeast (hint, hint).

I'll admit to NOT being a AR-15 expert or even an educated Geek, but the only two I'd buy are either a Colt (I kinda like the A3-Elite) or a Bushmaster.

I've heard too many complaint stories about all the others....

AllanD

Why limit yourself to a "jammin jenny" lookalike? Consider a mini-14

quote:

Originally posted by Bryan Chick:
Why limit yourself to a "jammin jenny" lookalike? Consider a mini-14

Jam? I've had AR go a couple thousand rounds without cleaning, and no jams. I shot M-16's for 8 years in the military, without a single jam! Note one of the requirements was accuracy, something the mini can't accomplish!

The question remains how did you fire your m16; on the range or in combat: there is a vast amount of difference. the undisputed fact remains that the jammin jenny earned it's sobriquet on the battlefield:I was there.

Setting an AR up for coyotes has three major requirements. In order of importance: Trigger, trigger and then trigger. I been there for about 12 years now and the best barrel you can find won't hit worth a crap if you don't know when the trigger is going to break on a moving coyote. Fourth would be barrel, fifth would be balance. If you get a good heavy bull barrel to minimize recoil impulse, be sure to play with butt weights to re-balance the gun so that it handles like a nice shotgun. Getting these things right makes for some satisfying hunting.

I have a Colt HBAR Elite that has served me well for 8 years or better; any of the top 3-4 makers have good guns. Its not hard to make a good AR. Get the one you like.

My Bushmaster Varmint came with a heavy fluted barrel and a GOOD trigger. Consistently in less than an inch. Very handy accurate rifle. Hate to clean them though.

quote:

Originally posted by Bryan Chick:
Why limit yourself to a "jammin jenny" lookalike? Consider a mini-14

Between my brother two friends and myself
3 of 5 mini14's had difficulty staying on an 18" target sheep at 200yards.

only ONE of the four was a good rifle and that was mine, a "police" version of the rifle with factory flash hider and a black winged front sight mounted 4" up the barrel from the flash hider cage.

A friend still has that rifle and he loves it.
I figuired he's shoot it a lot less than I would
and it'd last him a while....

Would I buy another Mini14? No.
If I won one in a raffle I'd sell or trade it
ASAP, they make a nice "toy", but they aren't
a real good rifle.

AllanD

With Ar-15's the ArmaliteBushmasterColt and Dpms's are all good rifles, allong with Rock River and the high end Olympic's. 99% of the big manufacturer AR's run fine, with the occasional lemon just like anything else. I myself own a DPMS LoPro turned varmint gun with the addition of a float tube. I myself like a HEAVY 16" tube, it's accurate (mine puts 68gr hornady match's into .5" at 100), yet at the same time it's not as heavy a the longer tubes, and more handy for carrying in the woods and swings quicker on running dog's and fox. just something to think about.

quote:

Originally posted by Bryan Chick:
The question remains how did you fire your m16; on the range or in combat: there is a vast amount of difference.

Both. No difference. Cause most of my matches are military combat style matches anyway, so lots of rounds between cleanings, even on the range. After all, that was the main hang up early on that lead to the "malfunctions". I've used it (M-16 and civilian AR-15) in pouring down rain, blistering heat, mud, and sand. Hot and cold, wet and dry.

quote:

the undisputed fact remains that the jammin jenny earned it's sobriquet on the battlefield:I was there.

Been in a cave for the past 30 years? They've come a LONG way baby.... (BTW, thanks for what you did, I don't mean to dimish that part one bit.)

I use mine REGULARLY at 600 yards, accurately. So, how about your Mini-14?

It seems every board I visit, there is the same Ford-Chevy; PC-MAC; Ginger-MaryAnne discussion.
I own a Mini-14 and I like it. 'Nuff Said.

Colt!

quote:

Originally posted by Allan DeGroot:

quote:

Originally posted by Bryan Chick:
Why limit yourself to a "jammin jenny" lookalike? Consider a mini-14

Between my brother two friends and myself
3 of 5 mini14's had difficulty staying on an 18" target sheep at 200yards.

only ONE of the four was a good rifle and that was mine, a "police" version of the rifle with factory flash hider and a black winged front sight mounted 4" up the barrel from the flash hider cage.

A friend still has that rifle and he loves it.
I figuired he's shoot it a lot less than I would
and it'd last him a while....

Would I buy another Mini14? No.
If I won one in a raffle I'd sell or trade it
ASAP, they make a nice "toy", but they aren't
a real good rifle.

AllanD

Very interesting, I always' wanted a Mini14 but never bought one because of the horrible reputation they have for bad accuracy. When I found a "LEO" model I couldn't resist temptation any longer. I bought the rifle and didn't really expect much. I ran about 1000 rounds through the rifle and never experienced the first malfunction. The bullets seemed to be going in the right direction, but with the very open ghost ring sights who knows. Two weeks ago I put a scope on the gun and man, What a surprise! This thing shoots! Most 5 round groups were just a little over/under 1.5" at 100yds with the occasional group going MOA. Now I know it's not bench rest accurate, but not too shabby either. I love the M1A styling and it handles very well in my hands. I'm glad I bought it.


On the AR rifles my experience is limited to Bushmaster. Fantastic rifle and extremely accurate. Needs a better trigger though. I've only handled a Colt and never shot one, but I just can't see the price difference ( guessing $400-$600) in the two rifles.

Terry