Hello, is anyone loading for this one?

About the only thing I know about this one, also called the 6mm Lee, is that it is the parent of the 220 Swift. I would suppose powder variety / powder wght. wise it would be a good start. For safety I would reduce the load and work up. FWIW --- John 303.

The LAST thing you want to do is risk an old, weak rifle like the Lee bolt action with loading data for a "similar" cartridge! How could you use high pressure .220 Swift data when the bullets weights are so far apart and the 6mm Lee is loaded to much lower chamber pressures? The cases are just similar, not the same - the Lee is longer and I have no idea of the actual case capacity.

Data for the 6mm Lee Navy can be found in COTW #9. I don't know if that is maximum data or not. Use caution.


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This guy made a major goof with a Lee.
I suspect he was playing with a very fast powder.

From 2002.


Man dies after rifle explodes
Blast in barrel of gun at shooting range fatally injures N.J. resident.

By Joe McDonald
Of The Morning Call

A New Jersey man died after his rifle barrel exploded while he was target shooting over the weekend at the Easton Rod and Gun Club in Northampton County, authorities said Sunday.

The accident happened Saturday at the club's Lower Saucon Township firing range at 11:30 a.m., said Lehigh County Coroner Scott Grim.

There was an explosion in the barrel of the rifle that Glenn deRuiter, 54, of 268 W. Portal Road, Bethlehem Township, Hunterdon County, was firing, Grim said.

The blast sent out shrapnel, and one piece hit deRuiter in the head, Grim said.

DeRuiter died at 2:30 p.m. at St. Luke's Hospital, Fountain Hill, Grim said.

Grim, who ruled the death an accident, said the malfunction happened in the rifle's receiver ring.

Neighbors learned of deRuiter's death Sunday night.

''Everyone is in total shock,'' said neighbor Beverly Graczyk, the mayor of Bethlehem Township, about 40 miles east of Allentown.

''All of us are just gasping and trying to recover,'' she said.

Dairy farmer Bernie Beatty is another neighbor.

''He was a wonderful man, a wonderful father,'' Beatty said. ''I just saw him the other day. He was always working in the yard, doing something.''

DeRuiter also was a gun enthusiast, Graczyk said.

''He had quite an extensive gun collection,'' Graczyk said. ''I believe he worked for a company that manufactures firearms.''

DeRuiter and his wife, Joan, who is a teacher, have lived in the township for about 20 years.

''Glenn was a quiet, very nice man,'' Graczyk said.

''They are the kind of people you really want for neighbors, to be part of the community. He was just a really good guy.''

Graczyk said she knew deRuiter's wife through her efforts to save the Asbury Bridge, which Graczyk said was a ''wonderful antique'' with iron tresses.

''She fought hard to save that bridge,'' Graczyk said. ''But the county wouldn't listen and put up a new ugly one.''

As word of the accident spread through the township Sunday night, Graczyk said, ''This is a tough one … really, really hard.''

quote:

Originally posted by .22-10-45:
Hello, is anyone loading for this one?

Yes. I own one and load it.

Originally I made brass by necking up 220 Swift. Later Buffalo Arms started producing brass made from turning down, necking down, and trimming 25-06 brass.

http://www.buffaloarms.com/Det...PROD=157806&TERM=lee navy

I have "old" loading data that I got from various sources and always went below their "minimum" recommended load, because I know powders have changed and load developers did not use pressure test barrels in those days.

I have never really had a problem, because I never tried to press the envelope with this cartridge. You can find data in old reloading manuals that you can buy on ebay, in old "cartridges of the world" books, and in old/reproduces P.O. Ackley loading manuals.

I developed loads and took a deer with my rifle, but honestly I have not shot it in 10 years.

Barstooler

Hello, Barstooler. Buffalo Arms salesman said they do sell quite a bit of this brass, but your the first I have seen who actually shot one.
I have wanted one of these rifles for many years..first a military musket, then as my taste in firearms changed..a sporter. They never made alot..and even fewer sporting rifles. Every one I saw at G.S., or dealer catalog had bore gone from that early erosive powder in that small fast-twist bore.
Just about gave up, when I came across this one..dealer said it looked unused..but would discount it since rifling looked worn & rounded. Said it had fancy wood and checkering..I had never seen or heard of a checkerd stock on this model..but took a chance & bought it. As I was waiting on rifle, I picked up a book Winchester Bolt Action Rifles at G.S. They had a list of special-order checkerd stock rifles. When rifle arived, it was a beauty! First thing, I looked serial # up in checkered stk. list...wasn't there! Aftermarket I thought. Then in small paragraph on next page, it read: Of those rifle with checkered stocks 3 were stocked in fancy English walnut...the first listed was mine!
I nearly sent it back..I wanted one to use not a safe queen..I explaned this to the dealer & my desire to try cast bullets in it..he assured me with care, those soft bullets wouldn't hurt a thing.
The bore turned out to be near mint..what he thought was wear, turns out to be Metford style rifling!
I had a few Ideal and Lyman 6mm moulds & brass was ordered from Buffalo Arms. Had to wait on back ordered RCBS dies. In meantime, I cast up two batches of Ideal 245495, a 100gr. semi-pointed flat nose..one my usual fairly soft range-scrap, WW & 50-50 solder mix, another a much harder steriotype alloy..that fast twist of 1-7" had me worried.
I have been handloading since 1972..but what followed was the most hair-pulling, problem riddled reloading experience I had ever encountered!
First off, this rifle has a LONG throat..whats more, the throat dia. is .0005" UNDER groove dia. Now I was really worried..I like a cast bullet at least .001" sometimes .002" over groove dia. I sized bullets to groove dia, & no matter how tight I made the neck, they were being pushed back into case mouth. I finally had to size first band .001" under groove dia. & hoped the spring-back of gas-check would seal bore.
Even with bullet only held in case by G.C. & last band..bullet still wouldn't reach rifling leade.
What powder to try? well..it did kind of look like a .222 Rem. on steroids..so I used light loads of H4227.
The sights are an open buckhorn rear & a German silver blade front. I decided to try out at 50yds.
At 10grs. H4227, it shot to sights & grouped in 3/4"
Next powder up was TrailBoss..called Hodgdon for their advice. Starting low, I could see it wanted to shoot..oddly..again right at 10grs. it shot to sights with a 3/4" group.
One thing about TrailBoss..there was less muzzle blast & smoke. And whereas with H4227..all loads..even ones that were too heavy for good grouping left case necks blackened..TrailBoss loads..even starting ones left them clean.
I tried it at 100yds, and got a 1 1/4" group.
Recoil is very mild..about like a .22-250 & this is one FUN gun to shoot! Oh..I never did get around to using that harder alloy..the softer ones shot just fine..with no leading. I had always wanted to try cast in a Metford bore..and all I can say is those British knew what they were about!
All in all..I learned alot..I have come to like this cartridge..it's long neck is just made for cast bullets...I wonder what it would do in a modern scoped rifle?? Just what I need another gun!

Yes. The throat is long. I shoot 105grs typically out of mine.

My bore is "dark" like a typical 30-40 Krag and the rifling is rounded, but it does not seem to matter much since this is a 2" MOA rifle under most circumstances.

I traded a used 303 Enfield for mine.

It was a Winchester "sporter" model and had a borken stock and a shortened barrel. I restocked it and recrowned the barrel. Since it was not "original" I mounted a Lyman receiver sight on the left hand side where it would not interfer with the bolt and would still function as a good peep sight.

I cast bullets for many rifles, but I don't cast for anything below 30 caliber so have never tried cast bullets in it.

I have quite a collection of loads, but I will tell you that that the first 100 rounds I put through that rifle were with it tied to the rest on the end of a 20 foot string!

The loads I "use" are really mild.

27gr of IMR 3031 at 2300 fps
28gr of IMR 4064 at 2200fps, and
22gr of IMR 4198 at 2200 fps

According to some other data and some of my load programs:

32gr of H4831 should produce ~ 2550 fps, and
30gr of IMR 4350 should produce ~ 2500 fps.

However I have never tried these loads in my rifle

I don't really trust any stonger loads in that action. Sounds like you got yourself a real deal.

Because I don't shoot it much, I only ordered 100 cases total from Buffalo Arms. They work just fine, but frankly a necked up 220 Swift works just as well, with the exception that the neck is shorter than the original factory load or the Buffalo Arms reproduction. Given the pressures that I load too, the extra neck is not really required, but because of the long throat, you do have to seat the bullets "forward."

As long as you only load 3 rounds into the magazine, you do not need to use the specially designed (and unavailable) Lee Navy 5-round clips -- which fall out the bottom after you feed the 2nd round. Mine functions fine with either necked-up Swifts or Buffalo Arms remade cases, as long as avoid loading more than 3 rounds into the magazine.

To me it is just a novely rifle, that was alreay altered way before I traded for it It was/is a novelty to own, shoot, and load for. It is so non-original that one of these days I will probably reblue the damn thing!

Barstooler

Somewhere I'd read that the rifle had been used in the Boxer Rebelion .Does anyone have info on this ??

quote:

Originally posted by mete:
Somewhere I'd read that the rifle had been used in the Boxer Rebelion .Does anyone have info on this ??

Try Wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1895_Lee_Navy

There have also been several articles over the years in various gun rags that cover the Lee Navy.

Barstooler.

Thanks , now I know something about the cartridge !

I just picked up my 243 AI yesterday, and for the hell of it, I took my 6mm Lee Navy to the same gunsmith and decided to have him reblue it, re-crown the barrel (since some a$$ hole had cut 2 inches off the barrel before I acquired it). I figured it would never be "original" so I might as well at least make it look nice!

My rifle at some point in time had also had a peep sight mounted on the side -- just forward of where the bolt comes up and back. So I bought a new Lyman peep for a flat-side Winchester and told the gunsmith to mount that new sight. S

hould be interesting.

The barrel in my Lee Navy is "dark" like you find in an old 30-40 Krag, but the rifling is still crisp. I decided I need to start shooting the thing again.

The stock is not original, so I told the gunsmith to see if he could improve the quality of the bedding. I will refinish the stock when I get it back, and hopefully will be shooting it again by this summer.

Barstooler

Hello, Barstooler. Interesting about that reciever drilled for peep sight...at one time, Ideal/Lyman offered a special peep sight made just for this rifle..I have never seeen one, but it was hinged..as the bolt came back & up, the arm holding the appature was pushed up and out of the way..don't know if a spring brought it back into place..a genuine rube-goldburg idea..that probably worked well.

I have never seen one of those.

I bought a good Lyman made for a Model 94 Winchester. It will mount in about the middle of the receiver. Not the perfect position but with arpeture insert removed it is still close enough to the rear to be useful and sure beats the open sight on the barrel.

It should be fun to shoot again. I need to start preping some of the Buffalo Arms brass and get a couple of boxes loaded up to get it sighted back in.

quote:

Originally posted by mete:
Somewhere I'd read that the rifle had been used in the Boxer Rebelion .Does anyone have info on this ??

That is correct. As you know, the common name of the rifle is the Lee Navy and as we all know, the U.S. Marine Corps is part of the U.S. Navy historically. The U.S. Marine Corps provided security to the European district of the city during the rebellion, and they were armed with Lee Navy rifles at the time. It saw little actual use during the rebellion in terms of fighting, but its presence (and, primarily, the presence of the U.S. Marine detachment there) definitely helped stop the mayhem and slaughter from spreading into the European district which came through pretty much unscathed.

Another assist to the security of the Europeans and their families was U.S. Navy gunboats in the river through the city. That, together with the opening of Japan to westernization by U.S. ships of the line (under Admiral Dewey IIRC) helped develop the common use of the expression "gunboat diplomacy".

Hello, everyone...before the Boxer Rebellian..the Lee Navy took part in another little frackus..while the U.S. troops were sweating abord their transports in Tampa..There was a rumor the Spanish fleet would sink them all before they got to Cuba..When in fact the Spanish ships were holed up in a backwater bay...U.S. navy blockading ships spotted them..and a detatchment of Marines sent ashore..in a brief but hot fight, the Marines took command of area...Guantanimo Bay.

quote:

Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:

quote:

Originally posted by mete:
Somewhere I'd read that the rifle had been used in the Boxer Rebelion .Does anyone have info on this ??

That is correct. As you know, the common name of the rifle is the Lee Navy and as we all know, the U.S. Marine Corps is part of the U.S. Navy historically. The U.S. Marine Corps provided security to the European district of the city during the rebellion, and they were armed with Lee Navy rifles at the time. It saw little actual use during the rebellion in terms of fighting, but its presence (and, primarily, the presence of the U.S. Marine detachment there) definitely helped stop the mayhem and slaughter from spreading into the European district which came through pretty much unscathed.

Another assist to the security of the Europeans and their families was U.S. Navy gunboats in the river through the city. That, together with the opening of Japan to westernization by U.S. ships of the line (under Admiral Dewey IIRC) helped develop the common use of the expression "gunboat diplomacy".

I read an article a little over a year ago that discussed the use of the 6mm Lee Nave in the Boxer Rebellion. The Marines guarding the embassy used them very effectively as "long range" sniper rifles picking off the opposition at quite a distance. Essentially they used a spotter with a pair of binoculars to tell the shooter where the rounds were regestering. The Lee Navy could obviously outdistance the weapons the rebels were using.

I would have to search through my stack of magazines but it was quite a good article.

Barstooler