Just to let people know that all is not skittles and beer in the world of Kimber owners...

I just bought a M84 Montana in .260 Rem and loaded up a batch of handloads to start developing from. Ten different handloads were prepared in new Remington brass using 100gr partitions, 125gr partitions and Sierra 140gr SPBTs. Powders were IMR4350, IMR and H4831, RL19 and H1000. Seating depths were all close to 2.75-2.78. Scope was a known Leupold VXIII 2.5-8 in properly installed Leupold rings and Kimber bases. Shooting conditions were perfect--dead calm and 70-75 degrees. Groups of five shots each were fired over 20 minute intervals, and the barrel allowed to cool completely between groups. Velocities were high and in some cases exceptionally uniform (s.d. of less than 10fps), and pressures moderate to moderately high with neatly flattened but not cratered WLR primers. The barrel did not foul with any of the bullets.

Best group of the day was 2.5" for 5 shots, running up to 4", and a solid majority were over 3". My target looked like I had shot it with buckshot by the end of the day.

Wow. The trigger letoff is a heavenly 2lbs. The rifle is tightly seated to the bedding, the scope mount is correctly installed, and I know how to shoot. I've got four other rifles in the safe that routinely shoot 1/2 moa with my handloads. There is nothing obviously wrong with the crowning of the rifle or anything else, except that the bolt head sits rather loosely in the lockup and may not be engaging evenly. There is nothing systematic in the groups that I can see to suggest a cause--no linear stringing in any particular direction--and the barrel appears to be amply floated back to the breech swell.

I'm stumped. I'm sending the gun back to Kimber to see whether they can figure it out. Any ideas from the readership?

Shooting distance was 100yards, BTW.

my kinber 260 shoots 1 1/2 groups, but only for about 10 rounds, after that it starts to spread out. If I clean the barrel out it goes back to the 1 1/2" again. You didn't mention if you clean or not. I'm going to try firelapping the bore soon as time allows. While it looks smooth, it doesn't act that way

I cleaned every 2-3 groups. I don't have a borescope, but application of Shooter's Choice indicated that the bore was not fouling at all. Clean or dirty didn't appear to matter in the group sizes.

I don't think five shot groups is a fair test for the pencil barrel on the Montana... try 3-shot groups and see what happens. Regardless, I believe Kimber to be a good company and suspect they'll stand behind their product if you send it back with a letter and targets... I do suspect, however, they'd side with me that five shot groups are out.

I'd agree if there was better consistency in the first 3 shots followed by a couple of flyers. I once had a Ruger ultralight that behaved that way. That wasn't the case here--it was just the eerie sensation of not knowing where on the target the shots were going to fall.

I spoke with the Kimber custom shop, and they told me to send it in. They also imparted an interesting bit of information that I almost forgot to mention: the FAQ on their webpage implies that their centerfires are test fired for accuracy, but the guy at the custom shop told me that that is not so. They are checked for feed and function, but no accuracy firing is done.

We'll see what their customer support is good for in a couple of weeks, I guess.

I'm not sure I'd give up on this yet. I just got the same rifle. Been to the range once. A few loads with NP didn't wow me, but 130 gr Barnes TSX does <0.7 MOA with three shot groups.
I'm more than pleased with this light, handy, and well made little rifle.
As an aside, TSX are to date the most consistently accurate bullet I've found so far.

Thanks for the tip on the Barnes TSX. I've already got it boxed to go back to the factory, and I'll post the results when I get it back. If they return it in good shooting form they'll be very much in my good books.

As I read this you took 3 different bullets and 5 different powders resulting in ten handloads (10 five shot groups). When I'm looking for a load I decide on a single bullet to start and one to several powders depending on my experience with the round then work up loads with each powder over a range of loads. I will easily have ten loads with just one bullet and one powder. As others have said with that light barrel and just looking for a starting load a 3 shot group is plenty. When I have exhausted load potentials with one bullet I will switch to my second choice and start over.

I uould agree with the sugjestion of the Barnes bullets, the TSX was an instant sucses in 2 of my rifles, and I am looking forward to trying them in my .270. I also would encorage you to try H-414. ...t3006

You know the 260 is suppose to be a very easy round to reload. I know in a new 243 (same case as 260) 84M I just picked up it will shoot 3 shot factory or 3 shot reloads with Nosler BT into less than 3/4". I suspect a bad barrel and they should replace it. I am nothing but impressed with the quality and workmanship on this rifle - the inletting and fiberglass bedding is outstanding.

As I have mentioned before I now have four new Kimbers. Not all of them shot tiny groups from the start. As we know rifles can be complicated and we find the cause of the problem in the last place we look.

A case in point is my son's M84 Classic in 7mm-08. I have this rifle here as I go to the range every week with a half dozen guns and he just hunts. The 7mm-08 was about a 1.5 to 2 MOA rifle with most loads. After many different loads and checking the bedding etc. I was about ready to give it a walk down gunshow lane as Ray calls it.

I never liked the Redfield mounts that Kimber supplied and I said the heck with it and got the big hammer. I went to the tool box in the car and got out a big screwdriver. I leaned into the windage adjustment screw while the rifle lay on the bench. You can imagine what the torque was on that effort.

Previously I had tightend the screws quite tight. Since I had broken off some in the past I don't lean into them. Well that screw on the 7mm-08 turned a half turn!

The very next shots from the bench and all others have been into less than 1 MOA for up to three shots.

Since then I had been able to obtain two sets of Weaver style bases from Warne and those 84M's now have Burris Signature Zee rings on them. I understand that Warne no longer makes these bases and I want more.

In lieu of finding Weaver style bases Talley does make mounts for Kimbers. They are quite pricey however. I will replace the Talleys when Weaver bases become avaiable for the Kimbers.

Don't give up on her yet. My Montana is in 7/08. It particularly likes Barnes 140TSX and Varget. I'm getting 2900+ fps with 43 gains, low SD numbers and sub 1" grouping using 3 shot groups. Best of all, it's a dream to carry and hit's like a hammer with this load. The chamber on mine is a bit longer than the blind magazine. This may explain why it likes the Barnes X so much. They work best with a bit of a jump to the lands, like .040 to.050".
But you may have a point with the slopy bolt. Mine is very tight in lockup.
PS You have to love that trigger, eh?

BTW, I also shoot a Remington 100XPR (handgun, sort of) in 260 Rem. Using a 120 Barnes X and Varget I get 2750 fps ...from a 15" barrel! And the accuracy bests most of the casual rifles shooters on my range.

I don't have a Montana, but my M84 showed the same characteristics at first - I've improved it somewhat with action screw pressure change. I hand-tightened the front screw, then the rear to about the same pressure. I then went back and loosed the front pressure a bit. It has defintely improved the groups.

Jaywalker

Well, I promised I would check back here after Kimber had a go at my rifle, so here I am.

I sent it back to them, and they returned it to me in about two weeks, having recrowned the barrel and reattached a couple of lawyers to the trigger. It was accompanied by a test target showing a very small group shot hands-free at their range. In addition to the rechamfering, when I removed the action to de-lawyerize the trigger again, I was interested to notice that the action bolts were not nearly as tight as I had had them.

After another day at the range, this time under less than ideal shooting conditions wind-wise, I can say it is much improved. Not a target rifle by any means, but just capable of MOA with a couple of handloads. I'm optimistic that a bit more tinkering might get me into a very nice zone, but it's already a presentable light multi-purpose rifle, which is what I bargained for.

Whew.

Good to hear Kimber has taken care of you. I am struggling a bit with a .243 Classic to get the groups down in size as well. I'll try changing the torque on the action screws a bit and experiment. My .308 Classic is easily a sub-moa rifle with 168 TSX's and 168 SMK's so I have high hopes for the .243 with 85 gr. TSX's as well but so far best group is 1.5" @ 100 yds.

I had all of those loads pretty close to the lands so I am going to back off a bit and see what happens there as well. I'lltry that first and if no improvement will back off the screws a bit. Any other suggestions are welcome.

realwood - try a couple of sierra 85 gr H.P.B.T. with 41 gr of 4350 - very mild load, but in 243 is the most accurate thing I've ever found. it might not me a hunting load, but I believe it will tell you about the capability of the rifle

Thanks Butchloc - It's been awhile since I've been on the board so will give the load a try.