Not too long after Remington launched the 260 Rem Winchester started all of their hype on their short fat mags. Remington tried to counter with the Saum version and basically failed. Remington has a history of improporly introducing a cartridge. For example, when they launched the 260 Rem, I believe they targeted Southern, and eastern deer hunters, and so they brought it out in short barrel Model 7, s ect. The 260 Rem really shines in a 22-24 inch barreled rifle. It has a higher pressure rating than the 6.5x55-----read, it is a better modern cartridge than the 6.5x55 as it can be loaded hotter leagally over the 6.5x55.

The 260 Remington really is what the 243 win was acclaimed to be, ie a dual purpose cartridge. Those of us loading for it really appreciate it's capability. Remington put out a 260 Rem CDL SF in a stainless fluted that is a really nice rifle, I have one, and love it. It pushes 120 grain bullets easily over 3,000 fps. It tramples all over a 25-06 and 270, only in a short action version. It pitches varmint weight bullets, and 100 grain bullets much faster than the above. So, what is not to like about that? Not much, it is a great cartridge that is currently seeing new interest. I would not call the 260 Rem dead just yet. If it were such a failure, why are many bench rest shooters running with the 260 Rem. Could it be they know something that others don't?

This "dual purpose" crap has been out the window for years. If you haven't noticed most of us go to the trouble to get rifles specifically suited to a particular task. The 260 is not the varmint cartridge the 22-25 or 243 is. It has an edge on game larger than deer but the 243 kills deer pretty darn good. On game larger than deer most people think elk are better pursued with rifles that have more punch. The cartridge actually has a small niche, with those enamored of the .264 bore size. And by far the twist issue is the least of it's issues along with the 35 Whelen as the market is pushed by the Walmart/Academy shoppers who know nothing of what part twist plays in a cartridges usefulness.

Its hard to bring whats popular for BR shooters, to the entire shooting market. They use lots of special tools, and special calibers. Heck the 7mm WSM is becoming popular with the 1000 yard guys...but its doomed in the normal market. Same with the 260. For one, America has a love affair with 30 cals, you won't find many people here who don't have one just because it works. And like the poster above mentioned, I think more and more, especially with super accurate bargain priced rifles becoming widely available, people are making better choices and buying rifles inteded for specific purposes. These days, instead of spending 6-900$ on one rifle to do it all, you can spend that same amount or less on 2 rifles in calibers that are better suited to different hunting.

I think the days of "all around dual purpose" stuff is over. It made sense around the time the .243 came out....people had less money, hunted for FOOD, and generally were out in the field more often. Back then, you had to have things that would cross over and serve multiple purposes. Now days, not looking at the right now current economy but in general, people have more money, but spend less time in the field. So, they can afford special tools for special jobs.

Remington decides to release the round, calling it the .260 Remington. All is well and good - it offers plenty of flexibility for deer, predators, varmints, and paper. Good move.

Then they load it to less than spectacular ballistics. They did this before with the 8mm Remington Magnum, look how far that got them. Still, they must've decided they weren't making the same mistake again.

But then Winchester decides to release these new short, fat WSM's - shooters love them and the gun press is singing their praises. Deserved? Certainly, they're a good idea and great performers - newer rifles come out with them in mind and they feed better and deliver on lower recoil and high accuracy, generally.

But, they're well off from the .260's market, even the .270 WSM recoils much more fiercely and is not intended as a mild mixed small-medium game round, let face it, it generates some serious speed and is at it's best in lightweight rifles for taking deer and larger game, not smaller.

In a fit of "me too-ism", Remington decides that they absolutely need to fire back with their own creations. The RUM and SAUM lines are there - the RUMs take off! Outpacing Weatherby's for less money and offering a huge case for wildcatters - more than the average hunter needs but definitely "bragging rights" worthy.

The SAUM rounds however, while good, can't match the WSM's speed. Speed sells. Winchester and Browing are already cranking out rifles, Kimber was out early, as were many others. The ammo was out there. It was more available and just better all around. The SAUMs never really had a chance and were a big mistake - Remington should have been an early WSM adopter and offered quality loads and guns and things would have bee all good.

But they didn't, and Remington has pretty much lost the short mag "revolution". The .270 and .300 WSM are pretty dominant as far as the short mags go and wildcatters love the extra capacity.

In the meanwhile, all the money that could have been used to promote the .260 in target/varmint rifles and lightweight Model 7's and 700 Mountain Rifles and their new predator models went to waste trying to get the buying public hooked on their short mags.

There was a lot of opportunity for the round to take off. A lot of potential buyers. It is an excellent little round - a potent whitetail round, plenty of speed for antelope at range, easily powerful enough for wolf/coyote/fox, a benchrest favorite, and much less overkill than a .270 for varmints with very comfortable levels of recoil. It's like a .243 that doesn't suck.

I'm waiting for Remington to load it nice and hot and rename it to 6.5 Remington, then decide that was a bad move and change the name back once someone fires it in a 6.5 Remington Magnum. Then the cycle will truly be complete and the round can fall off into history with the 8mm Remington Magnum as an example of what NOT to do.

quote:

Originally posted by MikeyB:
I'm waiting for Remington to load it nice and hot and rename it to 6.5 Remington, then decide that was a bad move and change the name back once someone fires it in a 6.5 Remington Magnum. Then the cycle will truly be complete and the round can fall off into history with the 8mm Remington Magnum as an example of what NOT to do.

I think you hit the nail on the head . Your post sums it up perfectly. I have a 300 SAUM, 350 Rem mag, an 8mm Rem mag and a 260 and a truckload of other calibers in other rifles . If I had to choose (and thank God that I dont-yet ), I'd keep those and get rid of virtually everything else 'cause these do it all (I'd keep my 600 OK for African DG ). Remington seems to have a very poor marketing strategy when it comes to introducing new calibers. Good thing I reload.

They are dieing because they are not selling. The common theme for various calibers is what will **** do that %%%% won't do. The 260 is a prime example. It does well on larger game but honestly, the 260 Rem is not a varmint round. It is a nice deer round, which is all most use them on, but it won't make them any more dead than a 243 or 7/08. Other than us gun geeks, who else is going to buy a rifle that mirrors another that they have?

Take a look at Remingtons 2009 catalog. Junk!! More of the triangle cut barrels, lolly pop looking stocks and more marketing gimmicks. What is wrong with building a good rifle? My money will go elsewhere.

The arms makers know, they need to sell about 3500 rifles to make any money. After that they let them go, or continue to make and market a particular cartridge, based on sales! As good as the 260 may be, I think more of us have been building our 6.5's on the 06 or 284 case to accomodate longer bullets.

Jerry

Here's another thing to consider - look how well the .375 Ruger is doing. Released in a pair of viable platforms that appeal to those they were designed for. That was a well thought-out release on Ruger's part - introduce the right guns and the right ammo to go along with the cartridge and get it into the hands of the press early.

That should have been the Remington approach - get it into the right guns (Model 7's, Mountain Rifles, Predator guns, Varmint/target, and youth guns) with a good ammo spread (lightweight hollow points, soft points of different weights, target rounds), then flood the press with these things. Overall, the introduction was lackluster.

People in the know are well aware of the kind of performance they are capable of. The 140's are a bit long but still a viable target round and can usually be seated out a bit farther than max O.A.L.

Remington has a lot of potential, but they never really pulled it off. The .280 is suffering the same fate, available in mostly expensive Custom Shop guns (and not from a regular production Remington either!) or competitors offerings - a damned shame considering how fine a round it is.

What they really need to do is take a close look at what they have and how best to position everything in the current marketplace, they have a bunch of "almost winners" and a lot of crap they should just drop.

quote:

That should have been the Remington approach

One needs to remember that Ruger and Hornady are mostly run by hunters and shooters!

quote:

Originally posted by MikeyB:
Here's another thing to consider - look how well the .375 Ruger is doing.

I would very much like to do that. How does one get accurate information on the sales of the .375 Ruger Roger

The 260 Rem is a great cartridge. Remington did the 2008 special edition on the 260, so maybe they are doing an about-shift and supporting it, they have also released a large run of brass for it, much better than previous runs, in terms of quality. I cant wait to get the 257 roberts edition in a few weeks. Cheers

The 260 with Sierra 85 gr bullets is a great long-range varmint rifle. I use it for my across-the-valley shots. Its Deadly!

quote:

Originally posted by Moorepower:
They are dieing because they are not selling. The common theme for various calibers is what will **** do that %%%% won't do. The 260 is a prime example. It does well on larger game but honestly, the 260 Rem is not a varmint round. It is a nice deer round, which is all most use them on, but it won't make them any more dead than a 243 or 7/08. Other than us gun geeks, who else is going to buy a rifle that mirrors another that they have?

quote:

Originally posted by AggieDog:
Not too long after Remington launched the 260 Rem Winchester started all of their hype on their short fat mags. Remington tried to counter with the Saum version and basically failed. Remington has a history of improporly introducing a cartridge. For example, when they launched the 260 Rem, I believe they targeted Southern, and eastern deer hunters, and so they brought it out in short barrel Model 7, s ect. The 260 Rem really shines in a 22-24 inch barreled rifle. It has a higher pressure rating than the 6.5x55-----read, it is a better modern cartridge than the 6.5x55 as it can be loaded hotter leagally over the 6.5x55.

The 260 Remington really is what the 243 win was acclaimed to be, ie a dual purpose cartridge. Those of us loading for it really appreciate it's capability. Remington put out a 260 Rem CDL SF in a stainless fluted that is a really nice rifle, I have one, and love it. It pushes 120 grain bullets easily over 3,000 fps. It tramples all over a 25-06 and 270, only in a short action version. It pitches varmint weight bullets, and 100 grain bullets much faster than the above. So, what is not to like about that? Not much, it is a great cartridge that is currently seeing new interest. I would not call the 260 Rem dead just yet. If it were such a failure, why are many bench rest shooters running with the 260 Rem. Could it be they know something that others don't?

Not sure where you got your information comparing the 260 to the 25-06 and 270 but I disagree.

The 260 will keep up with the 25-06 with 100 grain bullets but any bullet weight above that it falls behind.Comparing it to the 270 I cant find where it comes close.Great cartridge for deer no doubt the 260 is versatile but it wont beat the 06 or 270

It's a Remington tradition to expropriate wildcats and then mismanage them. 6mm Rem and 35 Whenlen given wrong twist. Also poor factory loadings for most of their recent offerings. Good thing they still have a good margin on m700s and decent ammo sales.

Auggiedog:

Thats why most of us, as I said are building our 6.5's on the 06 or 284 case, so we can keep up with the 25-06 and the 270.

Jerry

The wssm's are great.

I won't let mine die

I have a .264 Win Mag.

What advantage is it to build a 6.5 on and '06 case or .284?

I think the .264 is based on the .458 or .338 Win Mag case.

Yeah, they dropped the ball on the little 5mm too.
Atleast Aguila breathed new life into it for awhile.