The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Small Calibers .223 40 g vs. .204 32 g * * * Difference???????Go | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
| .223 40 g vs. .204 32 g * * * Difference??????? | Login/Join |
One of Us |
Having absolutely no experience with the .204 but knowing how to surf the websites for ballistics and using the JBM ballastic program I came up with the following info: .223 Nosler 40g 3925fps .204 Amax 32g 4000fps Range Drop Energy Range Drop Energy 100 2.4 1026.4 100 2.4 835.5 200 3.2 764.5 200 3.2 609.3 300 0.0 561.3 300 0.0 436.9 400 -8.8 403.4 400 -8.9 305.5 500 -25.3 282.7 500 -26.1 207.7 600 -52.9 194.5 600 -55.3 139.2 700 -96.5 135.8 700 -102.4 96.3 I'm guessing that the 32g. 204 at 4000 fps is a reasonable velocity to obtain and from the information above it looks like there isn't much difference at all between these two loads. I've been able to get to 3925-3975fps in my .223's with 40g pills. Tell me the missing components of the .204 that I'm failing to see above. I think that lighter weight bullets are also widely used in the .204 so maybe that's part of it. Eager to learn more..... | ||
|
| One of Us |
I have only shot 40 grain V-Max in my 204 and chronographed around 3700 ft/sec. The only .224 I have loaded for is the 22/250 with 50 grain bullets, and though I have obtained decent accuracy with them IMO they can be tricky to load for. The 204 has been very easy to find its sweet spot without courting high pressure at all. Do I think everybody ought to trade their .224's in for 204's??? Heck no, but if you find yourself wanting another varmint rifle they aren't bad. Dennis Life member NRA | |||
|
One of Us |
Good post Luckyducker | |||
|
| one of us |
In my limited use of dozens of varmint rifles I have never seen 3900 plus fps w/40 gr. bullets in any .223. Mine run 3700 and not much more. In both of my .204s I can easily wind up a 32 gr. bullet of choice to 4100 and push 4200 if I choose to. Not data gathered from the net, data retreived from an actual Chronograph. The missing component in your data is the BC of the bullets used. Compare .20 bullets to .224 bullets of same weight for BC. Better yet go out and shoot them....... | |||
|
| One of Us |
You are right I did not include the BC of the bullets in the table, however the JBM program requires the input of the BC to correctly calculate the trajectories and energies. I used the BC from the makers of the bullets to be .206 for the AMax 32 Grain .204, and .221 for the Nosler .224 40 g.. I used the 40 grain .224 as I thought that it would be the most used "lighter" bullet by the 223 users and the 32 grain .204 as I thought that it would be the most used "heavy" bullet by the 204 users. Again this was to get close to a valid comparison. I have two Remington .223's that I have sucessfully achieved velocities in the 3925 to 3975 fps range as measured by my Chronograph. Both were using RL-7 at 26.0 and 27.0 grains as I was following one of Seafire's recommendated loads. Accuracy in both guns was wonderful with groups ranging from .3's to .6's. Perhaps you have not tried that combination of powder, load and bullet yet. If not, I would recommend you experiment with it. I went to it after been flustrated with the velocity I was getting with the 40g using Varget. I just ran a 4200fps .204 with a 32 grain bullet BC of .206 through the JBM program, as you mentioned you could achieve that, and the comparison with the .224 40g; the 204 is .8"flatter at 400 yards and 2.0" flatter at 500 yards and 3.70" flatter at 600 yards. Energies for the .204 at 4200 fps were still under the .223 40g bullet by about 40-50 ftlbs at those ranges. Is the JBM program flawed in some way? I don't know for sure, perhaps there is another ballistics program out there with different data. As mentioned my data for the .223 is from my own chorongraphed loads, but the 204 data is from the JBM program as I don't own a .204 and have no interest in owning one.. If your data from the performance of your .204 is different I would be interested in the comparisons. | |||
|
| one of us |
No flaws in your program or data. I own both and shoot both alot. Several hundred every time I go shoot pds ......I go all the time. In the field you can and will see a very noticable difference in drop between the two. The decided edge going to the .204. That is why so many have made the change for high volume, long range pds. My .204s using 32 gr. bullets have the same trajectory as my 22-250 AI does with 52 gr. Amaxs. Best "heavier" bullet that will stabilize in the standard twist .204 is the 39 gr. Sierra. My standard load with those will go 3780 fps. The Hornady website lists the 32 gr. Vmax in .204 at a BC of .210. A 40 gr. Vmax in .224 with a BC of .200. | |||
|
| one of us |
Both my rifles being compared are CZ Varmint Kevlar 527's. The fastest safe 40 grain .223 load out of mine (which is also one of it's most accurate loads), chrono's 3,680ish. Hornadys stated BC on that bullet is .200. Good load. My .204 isn't stock in that Greg Tannel at Gre'Tan Rifles took a slice off the chamber end of the barrel and re-chambered it with a minimum spec chamber with zero free-bore. Be that as it may it chrono's 3,890ish with the .204 40 V-Max with it's .275 BC. To me the comparison is not the 32 grain .204 against the 40 grain .224 it's 40 against 40 straight up. Rounding both up a few fps lets say my .223 clocks 3,700fps with a 40 V-Max with a .200 BC and my .204 clocks 3,900fps with it's 40 V-Max and a .275 BC. Off my ballistics program at 70 degrees at the 4,500ft altitude I live at the two compare like this. .223 +1.71 at 100, on at 250, -2.83 at 300, -13.06 at 400 -31.03 at 500 where it has 291 ft lbs energy. The .204 with all else but BC and velocity being the same is as follows: +1.25 at 100, on at 250, -2.13 at 300, -9.57 at 400, -21.91 at 500 and carrying 506 ft lbs energy. On top of that in a 10 mile per cross breeze the .223 will be moved 31.18 inches and the.204 19.20. That leaves ya in an apples to apples comparison at 500 yards with the .204 having 9.12 inch less drop, 11.98 inch less wind drift, 215 ft lbs more energy and in my loads the .204 does it with 24.8 grains RL10X while my .223 load uses 27.5 grains Benchmark. In other words it's doing all that with 2.7 grains less powder. Those two comparisons are done with my working loads for each rifle by the way and not out of a book. Don't get me wrong, I love both rounds (hell, I love all rounds) but in my opinion to get the .223 to surpass the .204 ya need to move up into heavier bullets where the bigger caliber has advantages the .204 can't make up for with velocity. Oh, did I mention that with a varmint weight .204 and a good hold ya see all the hits in the scope? Big +. "If a man buys a rifle at a gun show and his wife doesn't know it"...Did he really buy a rifle? Firearm Philosophy 101. montdoug | |||
|
| One of Us |
Interesting information. Thanks for the input. A couple of points, however. I was using a Nosler 40 g. .224 not a Hornady and the correct BC for the Nosler Boat tail Ballistic tip is .221 from their website and the average speed from my 223's is 3950 fps not your 3700 fps. When those two elements are factored in I think the difference shrinks. To what amount ? see my original chart. I would guess that the both kill critters just as dead and maybe it just comes down to a Ford vs. Chevy thing. | |||
|
| One of Us |
Well just in case you missed this on the varmint or reloading threads... this ought to toss a little extra info into the subject's mix here... 223 Range Report Powder: Blue Dot Bullet: Berger 30 grain HP, Varmint Rifle Used: Ruger 77 VT Barrel Length: 26 inches Primer Used: Winchester Small Rifle Bullet O.A.L. : 15.55 mms Cartridge O.A.L. : 57.93 mms 10 grs: 2844 fps 11 grs: 3082 fps 12 grs: 3210 fps 13 grs: 3407 fps 14 grs: 3712 fps 15 grs: 3797 fps 15.5 grs: 3814 fps 16 grs: 3873 fps 16.5 grs: 3957 fps. Accuracy Potential: Load of 15 grains of Blue Dot, 30 gr Berger, WSR primer: 5 shot group size@ 100 yds: 0.4260 –0.224 bullet diameter = 0.202 group size Scope: 6.5 x 20 Simmons.. setting at 10 Power. As always, work up your loads especially when approaching maximum...I considered 15 grains fine for most of my uses... I am also going to test this with some of the more conventional powders for the 223 and the 30 grain Berger HPs... I am also going to try this out with their 35 grain HP Varmint... These bullets are very long for their grain size, being as long or longer than the 40 grain Ballistic Tip... Their price also rivals the price of bullets available for the 204s... | |||
|
| one of us |
Not maybe a big deal as you say. If a guy was into picking nits I also use the 39 grain Sierra .204 with a BC of .287 which changes things some as well. Plus my hats off to you for your courage as I've been shooting .223's since the mid 1960's in the Corp and taken untold varmints with it since. I've never had one that would "safely" come anywhere near 3,900fps with a 40 grainer, good luck. Be sure to wear eye protection. Be all that as it may I shoot boo-coo p-dogs, rock chucks and "gophers" (Richardsons ground squirrels) every year. My personal experience is using 40 grain bullets at somewhere around 275 or 300 yards hits get a lot easier with the 39 and 40 grain bullets in the big .20's: .204, .20 Tactical, .20 BR etc. When I go to a 50 in the .223 at 3,400ish that helps a lot at distance. Using your original comparison of the lighter .204 bullet against your way fast .223 load at 3900fps and all else the same as my last comparison my 33 grain V-Max load at 4,175ish(the 33 was Hornadys first .20 cal bullet)it still has 4 inches less drop at 500 yards with 60 ft lbs more energy, uses less powder and you can see every hit which is hard to explain the value of till you've done it. At any rate I'm sure not trying to say ones better than the other, they both have their areas, but in my opinion long range rat smacking with light bullets is an area the .204 wins at. All that aside and beings how you've already made up your mind which is better even though admittedly you have no experience whatsoever with the .204 this is a somewhat pointless discussion. It's called "contempt prior to investigation", most unproductive in my experience. Enjoy your .223, it's a great round. "If a man buys a rifle at a gun show and his wife doesn't know it"...Did he really buy a rifle? Firearm Philosophy 101. montdoug | |||
|
| One of Us |
I would encourage you to experiment with RL-7 in your .223 with the Nosler 40g. BT and see if you have any sucess with it. It has worked fine for me and Seafire also. Good Shooting. | |||
|
| Powered by Social Strata |
 | Please Wait. Your request is being processed... |
|
The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Small Calibers .223 40 g vs. .204 32 g * * * Difference???????
Visit our on-line store for AR Memorabilia