The Accurate Reloading Forums THE ACCURATE RELOADING.COM FORUMS Rifles Small Calibers 17 rem or 22 HornetGo | New | Find | Notify | Tools | Reply | |
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| one of us |
quote:I didn't like my 17 Rem when I had one it fouled the barrel and was very pickey about its loads....and you have to get special rods/jags/brushs to clean with and limited ammo choices....I have a yearning to try a 17 again but it will be the smaller mach iv version which is supposed to be much easier to live with....as to the hornet...it is a fun cheap to shoot as far as powder and barrel life..and there are some very nice small light or heavy barrel guns for the Hornet....several loads factory available....it also requires a little extra care to get extreme accuracy as compared to your fine 222 loadings....I have had 6 different guns for the Hornet and for fun it is a good choice....and if you want to trade or sell it later it will move better than a .17...at least in the areas I browse and shop.....good luck and good shooting!!! | |||
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| one of us |
bjk, As far as I know, only Remington still sells rifles in .17 Remington cal. Price may be above $500, I'm not exactly sure what they normally go for. However, if you're not totally committed to only .17 Rem or .22 Hornet, take a gander at this: http://www.remington.com/2002/fi_700classic.htm ------------------ | |||
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| <bjk> |
quote: Thanks for the responses. I will likely go with the Hornet, but am always hearing conflicting stories about accuracy. is the 22 hornet an iffy cartridge when it comes to accuracy or is it the Ruger that many shoot it from. I am going to lean away from the Ruger and towards the Browning or the CZ, any thoughts on how these rifles are out of the box? All info greatly appreciated. Brian | ||
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| one of us |
the only 22 Hornet rifles I've dealt with are a Kimber (mine) and an Anschutz (my buddie's). The Kimber is very fussy to load for and get good accuracy. Beautiful rifle though. the Anschutz was easier to find a load for, cost as much as the Kimber, and outshoots it handily. The Anschutz was bought to replace a Ruger 77/22 hornet, which drove us nuts trying to find an accurate load. Terry finally gave up, sold it and got the Anschutz. i don't know if all the Rugers are like that, but Varmint Hunter magazine ran an article awhile back where the gentleman with a Ruger basically had to rebuild and rebarrel the rifle to get the accuracy he was looking for. I still would go with the Hornet over a 17 though, and think even more of the k Hornet. FWIW - Dan | |||
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| <Slamfire> |
I don't like the Hornet so much not because of the rifle (a Ruger #3) or the accuracy, which was more than good enough for the range. But because of the fragility of the brass. By the time I'd trimmed the cases and deburred 'em they were sharp enough to slice my fat fingers, just gettin' 'em into the dies. The shoulders were lookin' for an excuse to collapse and I gave 'em plenty. After I'd had enough I got my old 722 barrel set back and rechambered for .221 Fireball. Does everything the Hornet did and more, the brass was tough enough, and it ain't a whole not noisier. This one likes 50 grain bullets best. | ||
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one of us |
BJK- Consider the .17 Rem very carefully. It may not be for everybody as it's a bit quirky, but it is also extremely rewarding. It has become one of my favorite rifles and my wife loves it due to the extreme accuracy and zero recoil. I have one I built myself that will shoot .2-.7 inch groups all day long and with all of the bullet/powder combinations I've tried. THERE IS NO RECOIL and you can watch chucks and squirrels vaporize in your scope when you pull the trigger out to 300yrds. I've shot in 15 mph winds and the 25gr bullets don't ssem to me to drift anymore than a .223 IMHO. The barrels do copper foul after 15-20 shots and you need to JB them to keep them clean. You will need special cleaning rods,jags and powder funnel,but otherwise it's a blast. Frankly, to me the 22H is just another short range .22 and you already have one.-Rob | |||
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| <Don Martin29> |
I really never liked the hornet. I never had one that shot like other rifles. I wish the hornet was dead and the .221 Remington had taken it's place. What the hornet will do however is provide enough power at medium range to kill varmints and do it with low noise. There is not much talk here about the report of a rifle but it was a concern with Landis 50 years ago. It can't be better now. Now unless a reduced load is made up the .17 Rem is going to be noisy so the "hornet" class does have its place. Since the topic here is really a excuse to get another rifle something must be selected. I have been thru this and I feel that in that size a stock .222 Rem is the class of that bunch of cartridges. Consider buying a .220 Swift and making up reduced loads for shorter range shots with the .222. | ||
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| <George Capriola> |
Brian, Ideally, you should have both! I've got a Ruger 77/22VHZ, and with a bunch of work and the right loads, it shoots 3/4" or better most of the time. I use Hodgdon's Lil'Gun powder, and get pretty good case life. It's a fun shooting gun, low noise and no recoil, and inexpensive to load for (13 to 18 cents per round, depending on the bullet). I'm going to rebarrel the Ruger to .19 Calhoon, and pick up a CZ 527 in .22 Hornet.(I can't go through life without a .22 Hornet!)You can find bullets from 30 to 55 grains for the Hornet. Ruger, Browning, Anschutz, CZ, Thompson Center, and I think Kimber are making .22 Hornet firearms. I also have a Remington 700 Classic, in .17 Remington. It's really fun also, low noise & no recoil. It's a little quirky, but with the right load shoots under 1/2" at 100 yards. At 4,000+ feet per second muzzle velocity, it's a lot less sensitive to wind than the Hornet. Not a lot of variety for bullets, though, mainly 20, 25, & 30 grains. You'll also have to live with only Remington for brass. You'll have to reload for .17 Remington, otherwise you won't be able to afford to buy ammo. The .17 is a bit prone to fouling, even shooting moly coated bullets. You can get a .17 Remington from Remington, Tikka, Sako, and Cooper, that I can think of. Regards, George. | ||
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| one of us |
I have a TC Contender Carbine in .22 Hornet that is my favorite rifle. It has had in excess of 5000 rounds run through it and still shoots better than I do. Many people become frustrated with the Hornet when trying to work up accurate loads. Mine was easy - Norma brass filled with 11 grains of WW 680 and a 40 grain Nosler BT over CCI Small Rifle primers. Yeah, I know WW 680 is discontinued, so in about a year from now I will be back to square one. This is a very accurate mid-range load. ( I also have a triple deuce for those shots on the far side of 200 yards. ) Many people make the mistake of trying to wring out 3000+ fps from their Hornet. This invariably translates into excessive pressures and limited case life. Be patient when trying to work up loads, and keep in mind the reason you purchased your Hornet. Find what it loves and keep your shots limited to around 225 yards and you will find that the Hornet is more than enough gun to make crows and chucks do tricks for you. [This message has been edited by crowrifle (edited 01-11-2002).] | |||
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| One of Us |
BJK, I have a hornet in the new cz 527 model topped with a leupold vx11 3-9x50mm. I had to fiddle to get a load and in the end it just wanted remington primers. Will not shoot with winchester primers. My load is 11 gr win 296 with the sierra 45 gr projectile, rem primer & rem case seated to 1.71 for overall length. This outfit shoots under 1 moa and if I do my part can shoot out to 215 yards no sweat on rabitts hares and the like. It also works a charm on foxes under the light, they do not go anywere with a well placed sierra 45gr out to 200 yards. It can be fiddly finding a load but the cartridge is a real joy to shoot and if you understand it's limitations it is extremely versatile. In the future I am looking to hot mine up and get a custom thumbhole stock for it and place a heavy stainless barrel on it. I would never be without the little hornet now. I was popping rabitts out to two hundred yards the other day and due to lack of noise I could easily get off five shots before they would take cover for 10-15 minutes. I went through around 40 shots and the reloads cost me about 7-8 cents each I think. Regards PC ------------------ | |||
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| <bjk> |
Thanks for the info. I think I will go with the Ruger to keep cost down, play with it for a bit to see what it can do and then have it redone in K-hornet...thanks again for the discussion.... Brian | ||
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| <George Capriola> |
Brian, If you're going with the Ruger, do yourself a couple favors: Before you start working up loads, free-float the barrel, bed the action and first 2" of barrel, replace the trigger with a SpecTech adjustable trigger, and replace the sear with a Volquartsen target sear. Use the RCBS Competition die set for sizing & seating bullets. Don't use Remington brass. I've always gotten better accuracy using small pistol primers instead of small rifle primers. Save yourself a lot of hassle, and use Hodgdon's Lil'Gun right from the beginning. It's got a low, wide pressure curve, it's very easy on the cases, and you can't fit enought Lil'Gun into a Hornet case to develop dangerous pressures. It also gives substantially higher velocities than anything else out there. Mine likes the bullets seated .020" off the rifling...They won't fit in the magazine when they're this long, though. I think the Ruger's 1 in 14" twist is too fast for bullets lighter than 40 grains. My Ruger likes Hornady 40 grain V-Maxes just fine, and likes Berger 22/40 MEF's even better. Regards, George. | ||
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| <Ben H> |
Brian: What George just said is right on the money. Before I ever shot my Ruger I free-floated, pillar bedded and did a trigger job on it as well as reamed it to "K" chambering. Mine shoots exceptionally well with Hornady 35 gr V-MAX factory 22 Hornet ammo that I used to fire form cases. I have only begun to reload with 'lil gun but it appears VERY promising. Definately go with a match quality seating die. I use the RCBS and am very happy with it. As George also suggested, try small pistol primers and see how they work. Good Luck, Ben H | ||
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| <Don Martin29> |
Or you could save all of the above hassle and just buy a .222 Remington. Then all of the accuracy issues are solved! I even made a .22 LR adapter for my old Remington 722 back in the early 50's. You can shoot reduced loads in a .222 you know. | ||
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| <MAKATAK> |
I have a 17 Rem 700 BDL I bought used, cheap. It wouldn't shoot worth a hoot. I looked down the barrel and didn't see any rifling. I looked at the muzzle and all I could see was copper. SO....I cleaned it. Took a week and used up a bottle of Shooters Choice, Sweets 7.62, and over 300 patches. Wonder of Wonders it started shooting again. I installed a Canjar trigger and bedded the action and the chamber area, and installed pillers and hex head action screws, then opened up the barrel channel so it could breathe easier and stay cool. I stroked the muzzle to remove any burrs and to get into clean rifling. I lapped the lugs and the raceway and polished the feed ramp. I mounted two piece mounts, shimed and epoxied them in place. I installed the rings and lapped them true then put on a 6.5 to 20 Leupold Vari-X III target scope with target knobs. I polished the stock a high gleam. Now it loves me and loves to shoot small groups. Yes, you have to get special cleaning rods and patches and jags, BUT, you could say the same thing for any rifle caliber. Yes, if you want good accuracy you have to clean every so many shots. I clean my big 22's every 20 shots so I keep the barrel clean and shooting small groups. I clean my medium bores and my big bores every 3 to 6 shots because thats all I shoot at any time. Yes, I use moly bullets and Kroil and Sweets and Shooters Choice and now Butches Bore Shine and just a bunch of other snake oils and secret blends and such just to keep things shooting straight. Yes, the 17 is a bit kinky to load, OR SO I WAS TOLD BEFORE I KNEW ANYTING ELSE. BUT, MY 17 isn't any more weasely to load than any other caliber I have. I just don't listen to the naysayers or I'm just do dumb to understand them. I use Varget, IMR 4320, IMR 4064 and BL-C2. Varget seems to shoot faster but no more accurate than the others. It's not a bit more finicky than any of my other wildcats but they ARE a bit more "selective" about what components they like than, say, my 308. The same thing can be said for just about any other caliber except for maybe, the 308, 223, or maybe the 375. Each rifle likes its hamburger a little different, just like I do. I don't think that's picky. How about you, with or without onions and pickles and tabasco sauce, rare with blood dripping out and just barely warm or sacrificed to the fire gods. I take the same care with preping the 17's cases and loads as I take with all my other lead poppers. 24.5 gr of Varget or IMR 4320 for a 25 grainer, a little bit more for 20 grainers. Rem 7 1/2 fire starters. Necks turned, cases trimmed and weighed and sorted. Primer pockets and flash holes uniformed, and a nicely reamed taper on the inside of the neck so the bullets slide in and out without getting their butts nicked. Nick my butt and I won't go straight either, unless you count going after whoever or whatever is holding the nicking device. FL resized to +0.004" shoulder set back with Redding competition dies, seated 0.010" off the lands. 4050 fps +/- a few, chronoed with an Oehler 33. 5 rounds go into a scant .400" when I can hold that close, 1" high at 160 yds and I can hit anything I aim at out to 250 yards unless a gail is blowing, most of the time. The potguts just hate to see me coming and the coyotes stay real hidden just waiting for the feast thats about to come. Now that is REAL PICKY. Of course, the barrel is rough as a cob half way down the bore and I have to use bore paste or outers foul out after 50 or so rounds, but that was done before I bought it. I only get 3 to 4 round off before letting it cool, but that's no problem either. I usually have at least 4 other rifles waiting for their turn depending on how far or how close the shots are. I have a Shilen 26" SS, match, #5 taper just waiting for the original Remington barrel to quit, but it doesn't show much sign of doing so, soon. I don't know how many shots went down range before I bought it and I am now on my 2nd hundred cases loaded for the 6th time which means over to 2500 rounds. Maybe the 17 is picky and I just dont' know it. Hey, keep dry and stay health. | ||
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| <CABirdDog> |
If you hunt fur and care about pelts get a .17 Rem., the very best deal is a Tikka made by Sako in Finland. I've had good performance and little to no pelt damage on coyotes and bobcats using a .17 Rem. and a .222 Rem. http://www.riistamaa.fi/tikka/eindex.shtml If you're looking for good info on .17's try these two forums http://www.coyotegods.com/ubb/forum.shtml http://www.predatormastersforums.com/cgi-bin//Ultimate.cgi?action=intro&BypassCookie=true | ||
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| one of us |
Way to say it Makatack, I loved my .17, 1 of my great regrets was letting it go, however I'm thinkin the guy who bought it should be tired of it by now I think I'll call him!! FAR superior to the hornet, although it is somewhat louder. | |||
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| <topfueler1> |
.17 rem. great for fox goes in with a small hole explodes inside does not exit. No pelt damage. Better hand load for it though. | ||
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| <Reloader66> |
The new 17 caliber rimfire will soon be on the market. I think Marlin and Ruger will chamber rifles for that new rimfire. It has the velocity of the standard 22 hornet ceneter fire round. the rifles will cost about 200 Bucks and the ammo is 12 bucks per 50 rounds. I have never been a fan of the 17 caliber cenetr fire bore because of the fouling factor. I would think the 17 caliber rimfire will be less likly to foul as quickly with the small clean burning powder charge. | ||
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| <TERMINATOR> |
I am still wrestling with the same general thinking about buying both rifles and am looking at the .17 Mach IV as my next purchase. But I have learned the hard way to stay away from Ruger .22 Hornets. Unless you like to fuss around and try to find problems, buy a different brand of hornet. I went through two Rugers. Neither would shoot well and I tried many different loads etc. I had excessive movement in the two bolt halves and cases sticking in the chamber. I considered the options of rebuilding my last one to be something it was not, and finally sold it and bought a Browning Micro Hunter. I decided rebuilding was not a good bet compared to buying a new rifle of another brand, especially since I am a hard user and high volume shooter. I expected to keep on fixing the Ruger VHZ The excellent finish, appearance, and durability of the Ruger VHZ not withstanding. Now I am a happy Browning hornet owner. The folks at my gun shop tell me every Browing hornet owner is happy with his gun. Thing is I have some other super guns, .22 FinnFire, Cooper .221 Fireball, Sako .223, and even an old bull barreled Ruger .22-250, that all shoot great. I always find myself going for the hornet first. When I have a good outing, I shoot about 600 rounds a weekend through it at Prarie Dogs. The main feature I like is quiet. The more quiet I am the longer the dogs stay out. The .221 is noticeably louder and has much more umph than the hornet. But, to boggle my mind, my .22 mag, in Ruger VHZ, is one heck of a gun. All the left over trial loads I had for the Ruger hornets, that would not shoot well in them, shot great in the Browning. The CZ appears to be a great gun too but I decided the Browing was better for me. Look at a Browning bolt and then look at a Ruger bolt. There is all the difference. Good luck and let us know what you work out. | ||
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| <gruvinbass> |
I have to say that I am immensely happy with my Ruger Hornet. Had it reamed out to K hornet as soon as I got it. Now, maybe I just got stupid lucky, I don't know, but I didn't have to fool around with much of anything to get it to shoot 3/4" groups. I started with 40 gr V maxes and Lil Gun powder, and didn't have to go any further than that. No bedding problems, trigger is at least bearable, and I didn't have to look especially hard for a good load, can't complain too much about it. Regards, Chad | ||
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| <dave3220> |
I'me fond of the "K"Hornet. I've killed digger squirrells over 200 yds. with my old Savage 23D w/4x a.o. scope. Ruger 77 did not work well re-chamber to "K". #3 with 27" gain-twist 1:15" barrel, speed-lock, 2-point sling, Weaver V-16 a.o. scope should really be the ticket for my digger squirrel shooting as well as Marmots. I use a re-worked Redding BR seating die and a re-worked LEE collet neck-sizer. Cases last forever, and I can count on sub MOA(3/4" for 5, or even 10 shots once in a great while. I'me not a BR shooter), in the field, which is as tight as I can hold on a good day. If I was to start over, with no romanticism about falling blocks, I would probably want a Cooper in .221, and just load it down a bit Dave 32-20 ------------------ | ||
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