I did not see in the 2007 that any heavy barreled models were offered in 260 and 7/08.

Why would a company come out with 2 new cartridges and not offer at least one or two models for shooters who want to bang silhouettes, or have a rifle that can shoot prairie dogs to deer and then some? The 308 is available, nothing wrong with it, except for volume shooting, I see no reason why I want to subject myself to more recoil. I would buy a Howa heavy barrel Stainless rifle in a heartbeat if they made them in the above calibers, in the right twist, 8" for the 260, etc.

Perhaps I should contact Howa so they can consider offering that.

Personally, if you have a heavy barreled gun that offers a steadier aim, AND your style of hunting might include using a stand, these heavy weights offer in my opinion the most stable holding platform vs an ultralight, so push come to shove, I'd rather ANY day have a 260 or 708 heavy barrel if I say stand hunting in Texas or somewhere perhaps shooting out to 400 yards, than any 'magnum' high speed long action round chambered in a sporter.

I can tell you, it sure allows you to enjoy more volume shooting with a lower recoiling rifle that does so merely by using a heavy barrel, all else equal.

Remington sells the '700 is the most accurate' sslogan all day long, yet fails to deliver when it comes to offering cartridges they 'birthed'

Perhaps they want to limit how many calibers they load ammo for to increase mfg. efficiency I don't know, but just like the fact they never offered a factory 700 in 6BR and 22BR but did so in custom shop xp100 and xb40.....and even made ammo for 6 and 7br, yet dropped the ball bigtime not pushing a 6BR as a great varmint round. Make it feed in a 700 and tell people how it is about 90-95% as fast as the 243 but the blast/recoil is less and usually you get better accuracy. They sell tons of 7/08 model 7's as people 'bought into the efficiency concept' how it was deadly enough, less kick, and close to the performance of larger 7mm's when used with bullets that it was designed for.....so I ask WHY does Remington in my mind miss the boat so much on WHAT they mfg and sell? Do they have any hunters and shooters working for them?

I am puzzled, and discussed the whole 'remington thing' re: offerings and quality control issues of the newer models with a mfg of a high quality firearm line today. This person agrees, and his company capitalizes on what they don't do right.

Well, I will buy, or build what I want, and not be limited to thinking 'my next purchase MUST say Remington on the gun'

In fact, I have seen that wholesalers, as Remington's catalog shows they are selling a line of single shot rifles, the break barrel type......and I wonder, where is their thinking.

I just see a company like Leupold introducing SO many new products all the time, and striving to keep quality up, and customers happy with good customer service, and then I see Remington, who introducing what I say is 'junk' in the 710 rifle, and there rimfire rifles, compared to what the say 541 and 552 are like.

I guess that creates opportunity for Browning, Sako/Tikka, Ruger, Howa, and others to step in and show customers a different way of doing things.

I suppose Remington sells so many guns, they are in it for the 'mass market' wally world and do not consider the serious shooters. It seems years ago a guy named Mike Walker worked at Remington, worked/shot the 222 and 6x47 (chambered in 40-xb's-the one on the 222 mag case) and did well as a competitive shooter. Do they have anyone doing something similar now? They DO say they are the most accurate rifle correct? But do the participate in competition? David Tubb touted them once, winning a championship with a 700 6mm or 243, but that was awhile back.

I seen an article on a 700 sendero stainless fluted in 264 mag, nice long range cartridge recently, but tell me, how much 'deader' is that round going to kill deer which is likely the most common hunted animal with a rifle like that? Wouldn't it be more pleasant to go to the range and learn the rifle's trajectory, etc. with a 260 that you could enjoy putting more rounds down the tube? I mean heck, it seems they might sell more ammo that way! They do like doing that right?

Well, good thing I don't run it, I'd do some more market research and at least do limited runs on guns to keep the most serious knowledgable rifle enthusiast happy with what they want, and also ramp up quality, personally considering a beefier extractor and a bolt handle that is pinned or something else that won't fall off, as it happened to me, and nothing will get me to ever rely 100% on one should I go off on a remote hunt.

Just an observation. BTW, I just saw a 'smoothbore 597 22' and I wonder, WHO the heck wants to buy and use that for what?

Well, there COULD be some 'thought' into why no 260 and 708, that might knock them out of say selling 1 6mm and 1 308, because the 26/28 caliber can double duty both roles, why not for the hunter/shooter to have 1 rifle vs 2.....well I guess Remington sees it differently. And I guess they can sell more ammo to a 17 Rem or 221 FB shooter than a 260 shooter, so yes, there may be some method to their madness. I still think they are ignoring a smaller but very important part of their customer base not to mention pushing 'better choices' out there.

Well, I can buy a Sako varmint stainless laminated and only need one scope, and shoot one type of ammo, as I am leaning out on having too many calibers, not enough time to load for them all.......

PS, not meant to start a debate on pro/con Rem, just an observation.

I don't know why they don't offer the heavy barrels in 7mm08 now. They did for many years and I have two of them and glad that I have them. I have 20" for hunting and 24 for the bench. I have never cared to hunt with a skinny barrel gun. Send Rem a letter and hope for the best.

Dwight, if they are or want to be 'in tune' with the shooters/hunters in the know, then they will read my post here, if not I am not sweating as I do own 3 700's, all 7/08 built before QC problems really hit. 1 a VLS 26" that had to go back to get the outside of the action 'truly round' as it had many 'flats' across it-never seen this before, it has never been fired. Another '94 or so built BDL varmint cut from 24 down to 21", blew my mind one day when I had a 4-14x shooting 100, yes 100 gr HP's from Hornady, put 3 in about 1/2 inch at 200 yds, and it fired a few more small groups like that using Varget to prove it was not a 'fluke', and a third SS model BDL cut to 21 also, put in an HS stock.

SO, I have all the 7/08's I can use, and if I buy another it will likely be a Kimber Montana or a Sako varmint or sporter depending on if I want a light or heavy barrel, but I am wanting to get back to some 6.5's and I might ultimately let go of those 7/08's at some point in time.

I do know that for a long time the 708 HB dominated the silhouette game. Many bbl's worn out, likely rebarreled with custom tubes since.

quote:

Well, there COULD be some 'thought' into why no 260 and 708, that might knock them out of say selling 1 6mm and 1 308, because the 26/28 caliber can double duty both roles, why not for the hunter/shooter to have 1 rifle vs 2.....

6.5BR, I thought of adding a 308 to my 243, shoot foxes/small deer with the 243 and larger deer with the 308.Then I thought that for the same money or less I could re-barrel my 243 Tikka 595 to 260, sell my sworo and buy a S&B 4-16x50PM11 P4fine, bed it into a McMillin stock, develope 1 load and shoot everything I want to kill with the same gun

Remington has a habit of introducing new cartridges & then letting them die on the vine. They did it with the 244/6mm, 260, & the SAUM line also. I wish that they would have taken notes from Winchester on how to market a new cartridge.
I have to wonder about their manufacturing decisions at times too. They are very bad about making a model/caliber combination for a while & then discontinuing them. They have done that with the 7mm08 & the 260 in the VLS.
I would like to know what they are thinking sometimes. Now would be a good time for them to step up & make an effort to try & win over some of the Winchester Mod 70 buyers that no longer have new rifles being produced. This is an opportunity that probably won't be around long before someone picks up the manufacturing rights to the Mod 70 design & starts putting them out on the market again.
I am not familiar enough to properly address the QC issue mentioned here & elsewhere. The two newest Rem. 700's I have both seem to be shooters. One of them is a VLS in 223 that has no small amount of barrel contact from the front sling swivel installation. The stock looks as if the the wood directly above the sling swivel was pushed up against the barrel. I can't slide a dollar between the barrel & the stock, not even close to clearing. I figured that would have to be taken out, but I decided to try it before doing any modifications. This rifle shot between .5" & .8" groups using factory ammo. Maybe I got lucky, I don't know.
I also agree that Remington shoud be participating in some of these forums, or atleast lurking on them. Nosler has their own forum & answers questions about their products, releases info about new products, & asks for suggestions from their customers. It would not hurt for Remington to do the same.

hvy barrel, as much as I have griped and cursed Remingtons, I admit, they are the 'choice' of gunsmiths having a lot of aftermarket parts, decent triggers, being a decent 'platform' to start a custom project, with the 'weak' link in my mind of previous mentioned potential issues that have hit a few consumers, albeit rare, but none the less, I want NOTHING to chance if I go off into the mountains on an expensive hunt.

Now, as to recent quality, I have not hear 'as frequent' problems as I did and experienced from say mid 90's to a few years ago, but it's hard to go back after being burned a lot, I mean many of us work hard for our dollars and being an American, all else equal, would support our American workers, but geez......anyway, I have no doubt as to the 'average accuracy' experienced by currently produced Rem's might be more often than not good to better than average, but I have not heard these QC issues with say Browning/Howa/Sako/Tikka/Steyr, and so on.

Anyway, one 'history' lesson Remington keeps teaching its customers is that if they introduce something new, give it just a few years and they stop supporting it. Hell, they tooled up and made a run of 673's in 6.5 and 350 magnums and how many options of factory ammo are currently offered by them at this time?

I know unless mistaken, ONLY 1 for the 350, no wonder the public never as a whole gained respect and appreciation for the virtues of that round, heck they load a 200 gr bullet when people 'in the know' realize it needs a 225-250 to tap its potential to get the BC and SD needed to work on truly big game.

I say Rem. needs to get their head out of the sand.

Re; the Tikka poster, I'd do one better, sell the Tikka 243 and buy a Tikka/Sako or Stery 260 or 6.5x55 and do it all with your choice of premium optics.

One good gun, One good load, One good scope, now get some range time, learn trajectory, range estimation, shooting 'away from the bench' and you will have all the gun you need and be deadly with it to 400 yds or so.

Mind you I have and will likely use a again a 243 for deer, but admit if available in 260, the gun it is in would be traded off, as I like the extra bullet in the 6.5 for larger game, 'just in case' it is needed for a bad angled shot on a trophy I might not want to pass a shot on.

As POPULAR as the 243 Winchester has been, IF the 260 were marketed correctly, over time, it could see the success that the 6.5x55 has seen in Europe. I believe that because I know the performance capabilities, with accuracy and shootability that would make it a favorite as a 'double duty' cartridge varmint to deer, one step better in some sticky big game hunting situations, than a 243.

Remington looks at volume sales, and when you look at which market segments buy which style of guns, they'd likely look at it this way.

There are two types of folks that buy heavy barreld rifles, varmint shooters and wanna be snipers. The varmint shooters will use the .223, 22-250 and maybe the .243. The wannabe snipers will use either the .223, or if they are feeling extra macho, the .308.

Thus while the .260 and 7-08 would be superb performers out of a heavy barrel gun, most remington customers would look at those rounds as "deer rounds" and thus have little to non interest in a heavy barreled .260 or 7-08.

Paul H,
Only flaw in the "wannabee sniper" logic is Remington has consistently refused to market a fast-twist 223Rem ... unlike Savage and Ruger. Their pricing is also screwed ... in Australia I can buy a Savage F-Class cheaper than a Rem700 VSSF II, and a friend just bought a Savage 10FP HS-Precision at a $700 saving over an equally kitted Remington. The Rem700 just doesn't stack up on features anymore. Personally I believe Remington has cruised on its name for way too long.
Their other "problem" is that they introduce new cartridges and then place them in niche rifles at max. $$$. Then a few years down the track, dump them and limit ammunition.
Cheers...
Con

Con, your message clues me to think perhaps Remington wants their 'older model guns' to become in effect 'obselete' by ceasing or scaling back ammo offerings so they can replace the gun with a new gun and ammo!

What sense again is a 597 smoothbore 22, or say how many 264 magnums will be sold in the sendero? I think their are more 260 and 6.5x55 fans, and 7mm-08 than 264 mags. 264 is good, but way too much for me.

Oh, and remington made 708 ammo in 120 hp for what? Yes, varmints. Perhaps they quit making that ammo, or have. Seems like they do things that continue to lose customers and as they don't seem to keep them, yes, the comment about running on their name gets no argument from me.

My father and I have shot so many rats in the chicken coop over the years with birdshot (the #12 shot with the crimped case) that the rifling is gone. Now it's a smoothbore. Perhaps the factory did tests and found better patterns with a smoothbore over a rifled one. Does that make sense?

6.5br: I have questions as to Remington's "offerings" as well!
Why in the world do they not offer a heavy barrel Rifle (700 or XR-100 type) in 17 Remington, 222 Remington, 222 Remington Magnum, 22 Remington Bench Rest, 6mm Remington Bench Rest, 6mm Remington and 260 Remington? The RATIONALE is simply beyond me!
I can not make excuses for them and deem there "oversights" as simply irrational.
I do own a wonderful Remington 700 VLS in 260 Remington and its accuracy and lethality make this Rifle a PERMANENT member in my arsenal!
On occassion Remington burps up with small runs of 500 to 1,000 such "nifty" offerings. I seek out and own several of these limited offering Rifles!
One of my favorites is a Remington 700 heavy Varminter in all stainless steel with a 26" barrel in caliber 17 Remington!
What a wonderful Rifle this is!
Put it on your list Remington - and make 1,000 of them a year! I am sure they would sell - both here in the U.S.A. and abroad!
Dittoes the 260 Remington in a heavy barrel.
Sheesh!
I do though disagree that Remington has left anyone high and dry with their new cartridge offerings. They make brass for them and it is readily available. I can get 222 Remington Magnum brass, 6mm Remington BR, 260 Remington and etc at the drop of a hat!
More later here comes the UPS guy down the drive!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

RE; smoothbore, perhaps I underestimate the rat killing in chicken coops that need to be done with 22 ratshot out of a rifle, pistols work and a rifled barrel, would have to see pattern tests to see an increase potential in smoothbore vs rifled barrel, but I would use an airgun, traps, or poison-not by chickens I guess.

As to VarmintGuy, you said it better than I can.
Thank you.

Now had they made the Sendero SS in 260 vs 264, I just might have considered a Remington, but Remington EVERY year fails to offer anything I want, or need, that another mfg. can offer me.

I also wish every company that makes a 260 would use an 8 twist like Ruger-they did there homework and my hat is off to them on that one.

I have heard reports of the VLS handling the 140-142's but I think it is due to the longer barrel getting top velocity in that round, but when you chop it down to say 18.5-20 in the M7's, I wonder why Remington's 1st load introducing the round was the 140. A 120 is a deadly bullet on deer, I know, having shot 3 deer in a 6.5x55- 2 mausers, 1 700 classic -with proper 8 twist I mind you (but we wont get into how they damaged the last 2 inches of the lands BADLY likely from crowning operation-so it got sold.

Yes, Vguy I can see you tell it how it is, and not let brand loyalty 'blind you.'

I would love to see new tests of ALL major gun makers CURRENT production rifles in same caliber, fully tested with several types of premium ammo, same top optics, same top shooter (with no political ties) just to see who is really making the most accurate rifles (better yet-use a machine rests!), and how much difference there really is among them all. Not saying Rem's are inaccurate or less, but let the chips fall........and also see how accurate others are, as I believe many other brands are right there, if not better.

Well guys, Remington bases the next year's calibers and combos that they will market, on past purchasing history of their customers ( what sells and what didn't)....

New models they try to do some market research on what people want, and try to come with combinations that will POTENTIALLY SELL.....

I have to admit, with rising costs of firearms, the government wanting more and more control over everyone's lives... and never being able to get what you want.....

My desire to purchase new rifles, even in new calibers is out the window!

If I want a cartridge in a certain rifle style... I will get an action and get the thing rebarreled! There you can have any caliber you want!

Watching a couple of these old benchrest guys at our range switching barrels... to me their is nothing that they do, that we varmint hunters can't also do! or target shooters...

heck even field hunting rifles...

while I love elk hunting and deer hunting.. i'd rather shoot prairie dogs and sage rats more than anything...

I don't know about you boys, but getting a rifles stock and trigger set up to where it feels just right!, is getting cumbersome for a zillion different calibers...and rifles...

That is why switch barrels is seeming to be the future of my varmint arsenal...

I have a batch of favorite rifles...and a batch of calibers that I would love to play around with...

I am looking at my Model 70, which has a 243 barrel on it rifle now. I also have a featherweight in 223... the bolt from the featherweight is the exact same length etc, as the Model 70 sporter...

This rifle is having a 223 barrel coming and a 204 barrel on order...It will borrow the bolt out of the featherweight...and both barrels will be set up by the gunsmith, to be interchangable just like these benchrest guys do ( it is a push feed Model 70, as is the featherweight)..

Both barrels will be set up to use that bolt out of the featherweight....

Also I have decided to do a 17 Fireball/ 17 Mach 4 barrel on that rifle.. along with the 20 Fireball...

I have about 6 short action Ruger 77 Mk 2s, in 243, 260, 22.250 and 223...

I have Ruger VTs in 223 and 22.250

One of these VTs is going to get pulled out of strictly varmint service, and be chambered for a heavy barreled style in 250 Savage, 260 Rem, 7/08 Rem and 308 Rem...all in switch barrels...

I have a 260 VLS.. and am glad I have it...in fact, I was able to buy a barrel off a brand new one, that some local gun shop owner got for a cheap price because they were not selling well...so he was going to take off the barrel and make it into a 6PPC...I got the barrel for like $60.00.....I have the trigger on this one, set up exactly where I want it...

I also have a 243 Varmint on a Model 70 action, push feed... this is one rifle that I have no intention of every getting rid of either...

This one definitely has a 260 and 7/08 barrel in its future..again, switch barrel...

so I really don't care what Remington does! I have enough great Remington actions.. and Winchester and Ruger actions... and Boyd's can set me up with all sorts of great stocks to fit my tastes...

and I for one, no longer have to be on the roller coaster ride, of my desires lucking out and matching their marketing department's crystal ball!

I am hoping when I go to Montana next summer for prairie dog shooting to be able to take like 3 rifles... the featherweight in 223 for a stalking/walking rifle...one of my Remington Varmint 223s, and this model 70 with a 223 barrel, a 204 barrel, a 17 Mach 4 barrel, and maybe a 22.250 barrel or 243....

4 or 5 barrels on one rifle, is still a lot cheaper than setting up 4 or 5 rifles and the cost invested in that!

and this way, I can get any barrel length I want, all sorts of barrel contour and twist options....stainless or chromemoly...

I think any serious varmint shooter would start going this route!

cheers
seafire

Seafire/B17G: Heres where you go wrong in your thinking regarding switch barrel Rifles.
I have been considering them and investigating them (switch barrel Rifles) for decades now and I constantly come up with these facts! You save NO significant money with them! You save no inconvenience with them! And they simply are slow and cumbersome and cause more problems than they are worth!
For instance!
Say you are a "serious" Varmint Hunter like I consider myself to be.
You go Colony Varminting one fine day and instead of taking 4 or 5 Rifles along you take one action and 4 or 5 barrels!
Comes time to change barrels as the first is now dirty or you are out of ammo for it or its starting to spray bullets a bit - what ever.
You have to get your tools and get a table to work on or a tailgate and take the time to wrench off, then on, another barrel! THEN you HAVE TO resight in that Rifle! Now I have garnered this bit of information from several fellas I know who have had switch barrel Varmint rigs in the past! You are looking at 30 minutes MINIMUM to wrench off, wrench on and re-sight in the switch barrel Rifle!
I can switch Rifles in 3 seconds! And then I do not have the hassles of the switch barrel set-ups - hassle number 1 being the re-sight in of every barrel, every time you switch!
Okay, MAYBE you don't consider ME a "serious" Varmint Hunter as I own NO switch barrel Rifles. But I DO Hunt Varmints with a number of "SERIOUS" Varminters and exactly NONE of them use the switch barrel Rifles anymore for Colony Varminting usages!
I have one friend that comes out west every year from Conneticut to Hunt Varmints. Instead of bringing his switch barrel Rifle, tools and barrels he brings 4 Rifles and they remain sighted in and available for switching, in an instant!
Visualize, if you will, there Seafire/B17G buying a quality barrel, paying the shipping, having it chambered for your cartridge of choice, then headspaced, polished, blued or finished and fitted and you are in that quality barrel for what would be a significant majority of the dollars you could much easier spend on a nice factory Rifle!
Even the T/C switch barrel Rifle set-ups are slower, much slower to get back to the Colony Varminting than simply switching Rifles!
Due, AGAIN, to having to take the time to re-sight in!
The ONLY advantage I can discover to a switch barrel Rifle for a "serious" Varmint Hunter is not having to buy additional scopes for each Rifle. I have suffered this indignity now for 45 year and it gives me a bad case of the gritted teeth every time I shell out the bucks for another scope!
I take some significant solace in this fact though - each scope is an INVESTMENT! I have sold many dozens of scopes for more dollars than I paid for them!
Careful BUYING and even more patient and careful selling of scopes turns out most often to be a wash (even up - so to speak). Buying quality scopes is like buy U.S Savings Bonds - eventually you will get your money back out of them.
Additionally I look upon "acquiring", setting up and finding loads for new Rifles not as a hassle but as an enjoyable "labor of love"!
Yeah, I love doing it!
Triggers take me 10 minutes and properly mounting and lapping in scopes falls into the same category it just takes about 45 minutes longer. And again - labor of love for me!
UNTIL I find a switch barrel system that would allow me to switch barrels QUICKLY in the field and not having to set up a target range to verify exact bullet placement at 400 yards then I consider the switch barrel idea - not feasible for my "SERIOUS" Varminting needs.
Best of luck with your "project".
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

quote:

and I for one, no longer have to be on the roller coaster ride, of my desires lucking out and matching their marketing department's crystal ball!

I concur!

Seafire: Check this out!

http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek037.html

Now that is a concept! There are pros and cons I guess in any decision.

Guys, look at this site:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-26762689271613...copter+minigun&hl=en


also, this:

http://www.break.com/index/best_shot_in_new_mexico.html

I think you will be impressed with the first link which is guaranteed to clean out a PD colony in 12 seconds! The second, looks like a 'one rifle man' the way he pulls off the shot!

VG....

Who on here could not consider you a serious varmint hunter??? Between you and Ground Hog Devistation... you two are MR VARMINT GUYS...

However, it doesn't mean that some of us can't follow a different path....

Watching these bench rest guys switch barrels on the range during matches, does not take that much time at all...with the right type of rifle action, they simply hand twist the barrel off and hand twist the next barrel on!... put in a sized dummy case for head space... and they are off shooting...it is snug enough for what they do! Savage actions are even easier...with an action wrench...

I have to get with afew guys for the Remington stuff... but have all ready spent time with some of the Winchester shooters.. a Model 70 push feed and you are off to the races... with a witness mark on the barrels, to the action, and a dummy round for head spacing it isn't a problem...

For scopes... with some time at the range, playing with your loads, you can write down where you have to change windage and elevation if you go to a different caliber...

If not, good old Weaver mounts and bases, you can switch scopes...easily..

I myself, don't have as much problem picking up a decent scope versus another rifle...on costs...my problem is I need fewer scopes, with better quality glass than the many scopes I have now, with less quality to them...

There is more ways to skin a cat... and being a serious varmint shooter doesn't mean we all walk down the exact same road!

hey I respect you enough, that YOU are the only real reason I am picking up a 204 barrel to give it a try.. otherwise I see no personal use for the round... but I respect your opinion enough, over all the hype of advertising that I am trying it out!...

But I look at my gun safe and tell myself their must be a better way....I am not one who believes for my personal life that the one who dies with the most toys win!

I am not going to sell any of my rifles chambered for varmint shooting.. I have access to eight 223's, four 22.250s, four 243s, and two 6mm Remingtons....

Plus the 260 VLS...

NOt only is having switch barrels going to give me some more toys with the same base rifles I already have set up... but I am no longer having to worry about what the factories are doing period...

Having to send that Ruger 77 back that had a load that damaged the bolt and sending it back in for repair and got the run around so that their attorney was happy.... that has made me dead set against screwing around with the factories... and especially their attorneys' dictates...

My loyalties are going to my local gunsmith, and seafire getting off his butt and learning a few odds and ends...

I am so fortunate to have access to a batch of these old 70 yr old Benchrest guys, who have been using the same Winchester and Remington actions for 30 to 40 years now... and change barrels on them, like normal people change their underwear...

I have quality products in my hands, when what the factories are turning out, is declining in quality, and skyrocketing in price...

I can get a barrel threaded and chamber for about $200.00.. and have it put on...and yeah, I know a few guys and sources that I can get it done cheaper than some guy living in Suburbia somewhere.... but that is the advantage of living in a small town, just like you enjoy living in Dillon...

Hey hopefully some day, you and I can share a field full of varmints to shoot, either here in Oregon ( you are always a welcome guest at my place) or there in Montana...

But when I go to Montana, I'd rather have three rifles in my vehicle.. instead of the 9 or 10 that I have carried in the past!.. If nothing else, all the extra round saved can be filled up with more ammo.. which ain't a bad thing for an out of town event!


seafire

One action, many barrels, HECK yes Seafire, did you see the MINIGUN in action!

Now that will do some SERIOUS hurt on varmints!

I enjoyed both points of view, and know you are doing what both need/want to max your satisfaction in the sport. Let me know when you all go varmint hunting.......by chance I can make it, it would be a hoot.

To think sometimes I contemplate getting an Encore, doing a trigger job, use quick detach bases, one good scope, and a few interesting barrels, oh, not to forget some nice furniture on it.......I mean heck when Bobby Tomek tells of his 1.5" consistent 300 yds grouping with 6.5x55, it gets my attention!

Seafire/B17G: I said "quality" barrel.
It just ain't happenin for $200.00!
Again best of luck to you and your project! Envisioning your kind invitation I must warn you - every time you are switching barrels and re-sighting in, I will be whackin Varmints with gusto!
My friends and I call it "going solo" when there are two shooters at a Colony and only one is available to send lead downrange - due to dirty barrel, out of ammo, cleaning barrels etc!
Oregon, Oregon, Oregon!
All my "roots" are there in Oregon (both my parents were born in eastern Oregon on homesteaded ranches) and 90% of my close relatives still live there. But the politics and the high taxes sent me to the Rocky Mountains for the rest of my Varminting Days.
Seafire/B17G, I continue to get excellent performance (accurate and reliable arms) and pretty fair quality from my factory Rifle acquisitions!
You are right prices are going up these days for these - but so are good quality barrels, stocks, triggers and all the rest. Let alone lathe time for a good Riflesmith to fit and chamber a barrel!
I just priced out a T/C Pro-Hunter Rifle (all stainless with 28" heavy barrel) in caliber 223 Remington at Bens Guns in Renton, Washington. I wanted this Rifle so I could add a 28" heavy barrel (also stainless) from the factory offerings of the T/C folks - the Rifle was $639.99 (plus tax!) and the 204 barrel was $359.00 (plus tax and shipping!)!
The counterman wrote the prices down for me on a Ben's business card and the first chance I got I threw the card and those exhorbitant prices that were on it, into the trash. So those figures are from memory but I am pretty sure they are accurate.
I liked everything about that Rifle but the combination of the slow switch barrel time (INCLUDING the time spent re-sighting in!) and the costs just turned me off, again, to the switch barrel scenario.
Again best of luck with that switch barrel project.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

VG...

I am going to try and see how this barrel from ER Shaw turns out...as some one put it to me... even their barrels are better than factory barrels.... I was told by an insider, that they make some of Remington's barrels...

I also have a source for some of PacNor's barrels for cheap also...

so we will see what we get....

and I don't mind if you are busy wacking varmints while I change barrels.. actually I take care of my guests first... so you shooting and having a good time, would be my orientation anyway...I am just that peachie kinda guy!

we will see where it goes.. but I am pretty confident in it at this point, but that could change.. or I could be proven right!

jury is still out!

But I'd still whether have $600.00 into a rebarrel, over $600.00 into a new factory gun nowadays...

Nothing wrong with Pac-nor, they have built all but one rifle for my rebarrels.......my 6BR was the latest, on a Ruger #1.

They did something right, the last group I shot at 330 yds, put 3 in .498 c-t-c. It will average that at 100 or less if I do my part, but I venture to say I have never shot a group that tight at 330 before, 200 yes, but not 330.

quote:

Re; the Tikka poster, I'd do one better, sell the Tikka 243 and buy a Tikka/Sako or Stery 260 or 6.5x55 and do it all with your choice of premium optics.

One good gun, One good load, One good scope, now get some range time, learn trajectory, range estimation, shooting 'away from the bench' and you will have all the gun you need and be deadly with it to 400 yds or so.

.

The action is at Pete Lincon getting a Walther tube on it, bedded into a McMillin stock and the S&B is on the shelf waiting to go on top.

p.s the 400 yard range is 50 yards from the back door!!!

Nice,let us know how it shoots.

Varmintguy - you are dealing with the wrong gun shop. I have consistently seen the stainless Encores going for in the $569 range here in PA and here is a link for the 204 barrel at midsouth for $272. Hopefully that shop owner isn't a friend of yours.

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/department.asp?de...34%20%52%55%47%45%52

Tped: Thanks for the link and the price checks!
I appreciate it.
Now $272.00 for a chambered and fitted T/C barrel is more like it!
I am just getting started in this "search" and like I say I really appreciate your asistance.
Long live T/C!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

6.5BR,
Yesterday afternoon, while I was buying a 700 Sendero II in .264, the gun department manager of that store told me that the dealer cost on Remington's is gonna go up 10% for 2007. Some may find this interesting.

For those who don't understand why Remington produced the .264 in the Sendero II instead of other calibers that are their personal favorites, I think it may be because Remington views the Sendero II as a long-range rig, and then chambers for calibers more suitable for long-range shooting. Also, understand that the .264 is a limited run, and those that wanted a .264 snatched one up right away, because when these are gone, there aren't gonna be anymore. These limited runs in .264 generally sell well (for several hundred or so copies), and soon command a premium on the secondary market. In my area, the .264 is always good for limited amount of sales. If the .260 is popular here at all, I must've missed it. Remington (and Ruger as well) have been real good about producing limited runs of rifles in .264. Oddly, perhaps, Winchester never did, although Winchester did have a regular production model Classic for some years.

The point of all this is, that who knows what calibers Remington is going to produce for 2007 in the Sendero II. Perhaps (but doubtful)the .260 will be available. If it would, it would be a VSSFII, I suppose. But it would cost more next year! Personally, I'm hoping for some 338RUM's. That would be a long-range hammer! Have a nice day, guys!

Well I can tell you if the accuracy reported in the tests I seen is representative as to what to expect, it sucks!

I don't buy guns for investment purposes and agree with Seafire, will just build what I want, with the exception, Sako had a Varmint stainless laminate HB that was in 260 and 708, if the prices are reasonable, I think those rifles would be very good. Resale would be better than a custom, but if you know what you want and intend to keep it, a rebarrel may be the way to get something you can be happy with as to ones taste.

They are going to sell what sells and discontinue what doesn't just like any other manufacturer on the market. Just not enough interest in chamberings such as .260 and 7-08. While those carts appeal greatly to us gun gurus, the everday shooters usually go w/ more popular chamberings especially, if they don't handload.

I wish they'd offer the XR100 in .260 or 7-08, that would be a nice one for sure.

I wouldn't harp on Remington too much, they still know how to build an accurate rifle for sure. I purchased a new SFII and XR100 rescently and they both shoot less than 1/2MOA so I'm certainly not giving up on Big Green any time soon.

Once the XR100 needs a new tube I'm thinking a custom 26" tube chambered in 260 would be quite nice.

Reloader

Reloader, Yup, you nailed it! Manufacturers, no matter who, are gonna produce what they think they can sell. It is all to easy, sometimes, on these boards to assume that what the gun loonies (pardon the expression, don't mean to offend anyone)(I are one myself) like, is what the manufacturers oughta pump out. The hard cold facts are otherwise. Actually, one thing I've noticed while perusing this forum, and others as well, over the years, is that what is promoted as some ideal caliber, configuration, or whatever, on the internet, by persons who are certifiably gunnies, is not necessarily what sells in the real world.

6.5BR, From what I've heard about the Sendero II's, they are outstandingly accurate! All I wish for, is that the one I own is! But to be honest, my experience with 700's overall has been spotty. Some have been outstanding, others are merely mediocre.

I do own a few, not having bought any in years, but there is no arguing that the 'platform' of the action has the 'potential' for great accuracy, and if a GOOD barrel comes out the factory, PROPERLY CHAMBERED as I hear many are way out of line of the axis of the bore, and if the action is 'FAIRLY true' then you can get a shooter, BUT if the chamber is poorly cut, etc. etc., having Rem stamped on the gun gives no 'magic pixie dust' to help accuracy.

I personally know a gunsmith and VERY knowledgable shooter who bought a sendero long ago in a either 7mag, 7stw, or 300, cannot recall caliber, and it would not do but around 2-2.5", and Rem would not do anything to correct it.

Now if that was a Ruger, and it shot that bad, I honestly believe Ruger would have done their best to make the customer happy, instead of telling them what Rem told my friend, "it is within specs!!!!!!!"

I hope yours indeed is a shooter, an accurate 264 can be a super long range hunting cartridge, though I seem to recall on the longrangehunting.com website, someone nailing a buck about 750 or so yards, something extreme with a 140 amax, in nothing less than the lowly 260 Remington.

I agree with above posts, make what sells to masses, yet what they may fail to recognize, is many say 260 and 708 owners love their rifles in those cartridges (pistol shots too) and keep them, very happy with what they end up with, and I would want to believe they would share their experience with others.

I was at Bass Pro of all places here in town, and listened to a numb nuts guy behind the counter, who looked like a knowledgable man, close to retirement age, tell a customer the 270 WSM has LESS powder than the 270 Win!

It perhaps may be shocking to know of all the crap that goes from 'people considered in the know' to the layman hunters out there. Perhaps the amount of 'mis-information' is insane to the mass market, so they are either easily misguided, and/or end up disenchanted with what their expectations were, and their results showed in the field/at the range.

I hear enough reports about current Rems shooting well, but I also hear the other side so you have the bad ones as well, perhaps my taste of Rem is skewed from the junk that their company spewed on the market when I was buying a lot of them. Either way, it would be nice to think they would be more 'committed' to the public when they sell them a new idea, instead of ceasing production of ammo, let alone that ctg. in their rifle/pistol lineup.

Thanks, Enjoyed the posts.

quote:

I was at Bass Pro of all places here in town, and listened to a numb nuts guy behind the counter, who looked like a knowledgable man, close to retirement age, tell a customer the 270 WSM has LESS powder than the 270 Win!

You mean those guys in the pretty green shirts behind the gun counter don't know what they're talking about

I love to over hear some of the sellsman's scoop on certain rifles. It will sure crack a smile on your face.

You get what you pay for. Heck, they'd probably have to pay 30-40 dollars an hour to get someone up there that really knew what they were talking about.

Reloader

I must admit, I do get my jollies sometimes listening to gun salesmen!

I'm frustrated with Big Green too. I saved up for a Sendero in 338 UM just to watch them drop it Anyway, I have an old 721 in 300 H&H that has been converted to a 300 Mashburn, but not marked. You guessed it, do I spend $100 or more on custom dies and hope for the best, or do I build my own Sendero?

buckshot, you may have answered your own question, and those OLD 721 actions I understand were more 'true' like the 600's from what I am told, might make as good or better an action, and I would not be surprised if you could save from blueprinting it, the costs, but a gunsmith would argue otherwise, heard that about Sako's. Read somewhere recently a guy barreled his 700's without squaring and it shot well and he felt not worth the $$$$ to square. Everyone has their opinion, just passing that on.

quote:

Originally posted by buckshot:
I'm frustrated with Big Green too. I saved up for a Sendero in 338 UM just to watch them drop it Anyway, I have an old 721 in 300 H&H that has been converted to a 300 Mashburn, but not marked. You guessed it, do I spend $100 or more on custom dies and hope for the best, or do I build my own Sendero?

My attitude is build your own.. I am sick of waiting for the manufacturers to come out with something I want.... which is usually overpriced.. and won't shoot as good as an after market barrel in most instances... and when you build it.. you get exactly what you want! can't put a price tag on that one feature at all in my book!!!

quote:

Originally posted by 6.5BR:
buckshot, you may have answered your own question, and those OLD 721 actions I understand were more 'true' like the 600's from what I am told, might make as good or better an action, and I would not be surprised if you could save from blueprinting it, the costs, but a gunsmith would argue otherwise, heard that about Sako's. Read somewhere recently a guy barreled his 700's without squaring and it shot well and he felt not worth the $$$$ to square. Everyone has their opinion, just passing that on.

I could have been lucky, I don't know but I bought a 22-250 after verifying it shot good with a .350 group. Took the barrel off and put a 7mm08 barrel on the receiver and shot a .250 group this weekend with 130 gr match bullets. I assume since the original one shot good that it was squared okay at the factory. I don't believe anyone can do anything to it to make it shoot any better than I am shooting now. I am not good enough to shoot any better.

The last time I fired my 21" HB 708 factory with a high mag scope, it did 1/2" at 200 yds with 100hp.

This was an older BDL varmint with newer VLS stock added. It shoots, but I have had many that did not, or that had bad defects that would keep it from shooting that well. Rem does and has had QC issues, and I don't recall those issue with say a Sako.....and I know about the bad batch of steel from China that caused some recalls, since Beretta bought them I believe.

You have a keeper, enjoy, but I don't see myself buying many, or any new Rems anytime soon. Nothing I want/need that I cannot obtain another way, and having been burned, I cannot 'reward' rem for repeatedly screwing me out of hard earned dollars and giving me headaches needlessly. I expect quality from every one that leaves the plant. I believe in all honesty Browning and Ruger are more consistent in QC, now Winchester, they did have some issues with some, but I think less often than Rem. not that its more than a moot point now.