I went out today with the season opener here and scored on a medium size mule deer buck with my Sig M400 Enhanced using a warmed up hand load. The load is a 40g. NBT on top of a generous amount of RL-7 in a LC case.(See Seafire's load recommendation). I'm shooting this load a 3925 fps out of a 26" barrel Rem 700 bull barrel with a 8" suppressor on it and out of my AR this load turns out right at 3350 fps.

I spent most of the morning, today, looking at around 30 does searching for some horns and finally came upon 4 deer right at 250-300 yards. I lazered the buck at 288 yards standing broadside out in the opening of the sagebrush and I was able to take a solid rest from a nearby tree. I have a 1-4X scope on that AR for close work and some far stuff for coyotes but most of my rifles are 4X16 and 6x24. That extra magnification was missing this morning and I had to remember what 4x looked like again.

At the shot the buck stood still and while I didn't hear the bullet hit I thought I drilled him. I was getting ready to hit him again when I grabbed my 10x binoculars to watch him put it in reverse and take about 7-10 backwards steps. It almost looked like he was moon walking. I could tell from that reaction that he was going down and he turned 180* and took about 3-5 more steps and disappeared in the sage. I've seen other animals start the moon walk and usually that is a sign of a solid hit and so I watched the area that he went down in for about a minute, hoping that he would not be getting up. I walked up to the area and missed the area where he was first and then while looking for some blood found him stone cold dead. Upon cleaning him I found his lungs to be spattered all around the area in front of the diagram.

That AR has been a recent addition and after trying out about 4-5 brands of factory ammo I settled on a factory load and then shot some of my reloads through it. It is not a shooter like the Rem 700 which is a .5-.7 shooter but this AR came in at around 1.25-1.5" at 100 yards with the reloads and my choice of the factory stuff. It was great to carry 15 rounds in a 20 round mag and have a day's supply of ammo without carry additional rounds somewhere else. The weight of that rifle is easy to handle and with the sling I have on it was a comfortable carry all day. Much impressed with that AR.

Sweet! Did you get carnage photos?

The deer in your area obviously don't have internet access or this buck would have realized that he can't be killed with a .22 Centerfire. You're just lucky that you didn't shoot at a better informed buck.

Some years ago I killed 5 Kodiak Island blacktail with six shots using my AR-15 carbine. I was shooting 60-grain Nosler Solid base bullets (at around 2800 fps IIRC). All were hit with perfect shot placement. One went down at the shot - hit in the spine due to the presentation. All the others at first acted like they had not been hit. Then after about 10 seconds they would tip over. The .223 can certainly kill deer well, but I have far more capable rifles and handguns, which I have used on every other deer hunt. That .223 hunt was just "to see what would happen".



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Yea right a moon walking deer. I guess he was wearing one white glove and singing "Beat It". Then to top it off you have the audacity to try and tell us you killed a deer with a .22 centerfire. You didn't mention what was pictured on the box the ammo came out of. You spattered his lungs and he died. That seems reasonable enough.

My 14 year old son took his first white tail (3 point buck, @140 lbs) just three days ago.

Using handloads of IMR 8208 XBR and 65gr SGKs. A twenty five yard shot (I like them close), the bullet went in behind the right shoulder, took out both lungs and nicked the heart. It then hit the left shoulder and broke it.

The deer went thirty yards after the shot. No bullet exit and no blood trail. All I found of the bullet was the empty cup and small pieces of the lead core.

I feel that the shot was way too close to hit bone and he should have waited for the "perfect broadside" that we all want. After seeing the remains of the bullet and the ruined left shoulder, he fully agrees and will use more patience next time. The deer had no idea had no idea we were there and my son could have waited for him to turn for a better angle.

Phil N.

Tell your son congratulations on his first deer. Way to go there lad.

I was butchering up the buck this morning and found the entrance hole in the rib cage on the side that was facing me and looked on the other side of the ribs to find the exit with no luck. I couldn't find the bullet and perhaps it is part of the gut-pile on the hillside.

This buck had some fat pockets underneath his skin near the back hip area and he was about 500 yards from some hay fields. He no doubt spent some of the evening hours dining there. The meat is soaking in some cold salt water to draw out the blood and then tomorrow into the freezer backs.

carpetman - I looked and looked on the box the bullets came out of, since they were reloads, and could not find any pretty pictures of critters on the box anywhere???? All the photos were of the bullets with their nice thick bases on the box.

Teancum--You can draw your own picture of a deer and then folks will believe you killed a deer with a .22 centerfire.

Phil - Congratulate the young man for me! The smiles are worth a ton. aren't they?

Thank you, gentlemen! From my son and I.

Honestly, I had doubts about the little bullet, but it has proved worthy.

quote:

Originally posted by Phil N:
Thank you, gentlemen! From my son and I.

Honestly, I had doubts about the little bullet, but it has proved worthy.

If you had doubts do you really think you should have used it? There are better choices !! roger

Better choices? It killed the deer. Deer went 30 yards---seen em go much further when shot with bigger. You never know till you pull the trigger. May have just been more meat damage with a better choice??? If son can shoot that comfortably, put bullet in right place it's a great choice. Guess the better choices kill em deader.

quote:

Originally posted by bartsche:

quote:

Originally posted by Phil N:
Thank you, gentlemen! From my son and I.

Honestly, I had doubts about the little bullet, but it has proved worthy.

If you had doubts do you really think you should have used it? There are better choices !! roger

I 'm not going to get into a "223 for deer" pissing contest.

I know several people that have used the same combo with good results. I was really refering to the distance of the shot not the cartridge being used. I was a little concerned about how it would react at the speed with which it would be hitting the deer.

The deer is in the freezer....go puke on someone else's thread.



.....and thanks carpetman1.

quote:

Originally posted by Phil N:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by bartsche:

The deer is in the freezer....go puke on someone else's thread..

Perhaps I was a bit harsh using the puke thing for someone being doubtful of what he was using on a deer. roger

quote:

I was really refering to the distance of the shot not the cartridge being used.

288 yards..

REALLY???

That's not very far at all. Out here, that's barely medium range???

If you think 288 yards is a long shot, you have no business deer hunting this side of the Misouri.

The deer is in the freezer. Nothing left but the whining

quote:

Originally posted by Antelope Sniper:

quote:

I was really refering to the distance of the shot not the cartridge being used.

288 yards..

REALLY???

That's not very far at all. Out here, that's barely medium range???

If you think 288 yards is a long shot, you have no business deer hunting this side of the Misouri.

Where do you see "288 yards" in my posts? My son's shot was closer to 28 yards.....and who said anything about hunting out west?

I do practice out to 300 yards, but have never had a shot on an animal over 100. I hunt eastern woods. The last 10 shots I have taken at game were under 50 yards.

Again, Bartsche...I was referring to how the bullet would perform at that range/speed, not it's overall effectiveness on deer.

quote:

Originally posted by TEANCUM:
I went out today with the season opener here and scored on a medium size mule deer buck with my Sig M400 Enhanced using a warmed up hand load. The load is a 40g. NBT on top of a generous amount of RL-7 in a LC case.(See Seafire's load recommendation).

out of my AR this load turns out right at 3350 fps.

I lazered the buck at 288 yards standing broadside out in the opening of the sagebrush

this AR came in at around 1.25-1.5" at 100 yards with the reloads and my choice of the factory stuff. It was great to carry 15 rounds in a 20 round mag and have a day's supply of ammo without carry additional rounds somewhere else. The weight of that rifle is easy to handle and with the sling I have on it was a comfortable carry all day. Much impressed with that AR.

Well since you are into the numbers, here's some more data for you:

Midway Product Information:

"Varmints and predators beware! Nosler's ballistic Tip Varmint Bullets are designed for violent expansion upon impact. The bullet is tipped with a polycarbonate tip which rapidly drives back forcing the thin jacket to expand and fragment. The heavy base prevents deformation during firing and the boat-tail design increases the ballistic efficiency of the bullet. This is not loaded ammunition."

• Ballistics Information:
• Sectional Density: 0.114
• Ballistic Coefficient: 0.221
• Optimum Performance Velocity: 1600 fps


So, at 288 yds the little varmint bullet with a whopping .114 Sectional Density and .221 BC is still screeming along at 2200 fps, and delivers a whopping 425 ft-lbs of energy. It's about like shooting a 22 Hornet at 50 yds or so.

I'm impressed. Stunt shooting always impresses me, but I'm easily amused.

Although I can't recomend based on actual experience, may I suggest that you may find one of the hyper-velocity .17 calibers even more satisfying for your needs, skills, attitude, mentality, and maturity. If you work at it a little harder, you could easily get the ft-lbs down to under 300. And maybe a more explosive bullet would increase your odds of surface wounds and/or ruined meat. Then you would really have something to brag about on the internet - stunt shooting deer at 250 +++ yds with . 17 cal varmint bullets. Heck, the 223 deer cartridge is renowned, and no big deal, for a real stuntsman. Carpetman does it all the time, with 100 % success, and so do all his friends and relatives.

OTOH, you could learn stalking skills, get closer and use a 22 Rim Fire Mag. Same effect, but using real hunting skills, as compared to sniping skills.

Ask Carpetman to recommend ammo that has a picture of a deer on the box. He keeps up with the latest on such things.

KB

Buy generic ammo---there is no picture on the box, you can draw your own that way and turn it into a cape buffalo gun if need be. I do wonder how a Ruger .204 would do, I like .20 cal in pellet rifles.

I've been thinking of practicing with my slingshot, and taking it deer hunting, so I can compete with teancum and carpetman for internet bragging rights. I can claim 100% success just as easily as they do.

Sorry Phil, I thought you were referring to the OP, which referenced 288 yards.

At 28 yards even Teancum would agree the 40gr BT would not be a good choice. At that range I'd opt for the 60gr Partition, or the 64gr bonded solid base. Glad the Gameking worked out for your son.

Kaboom - Ye olde flock shooter

How the heck are ya??? Haven't heard from you for a spell and was worried about you.

Thanks for the recommendations about the .17's. I looked into them a while ago and came up unimpressed when I can get almost the same performance with the .224 caliber when loaded properly.

But thanks for the concern and input. Wishing you the best.

I had to check the date of the post. I thot I was in a time warp back a year or 3 . Congrats Teen and Phil

quote:

Originally posted by Antelope Sniper:
At 28 yards even Teancum would agree the 40gr BT would not be a good choice.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. He would probably practice is stalking skills and sneak AWAY to increase the range, so he could use his range finder and sniping skills.

KB