You know I wrote something about why you would feel the need to trash on people who have seen more than you.
And then decided that it is not worth it.

I am curious though, do you doubt these stories?

roger

quote:

Originally posted by bucko:
You know I wrote something about why you would feel the need to trash on people who have seen more than you.Wow! Bucko, If that is directed toward me I just stand totallyhumbled.
And then decided that it is not worth it.

I am curious though, do you doubt these stories?

Now there is a possibility that they may be just a little tongue in cheeck.

Hmmmm?? I guess I'll just have to liten up a bit.

Well and perhaps I should also.
But what has been shared sure does not seem to me to have been exaggerated very much at all.
In fact they seem pretty par for what happens if an animal has an open area to run in after heart shot.
It has been my experiance at least that they will break and run like they have never run before, and if there is nothing for them to crash into they sometimes can go a very long ways very quickly.
I don't think they could navigate difficult terrain or tight brush very well , at least it has been again my experiance that they run headlong into something before very far, unless of course there is nothing to hit.

quote:

This has to be a kick back to the old adage " ---the first story teller doesn't have a prayer---" roger

I take that as meant in fun -
The person who told me was a Rhodesian gun smith of note with heaps of experience. He was told the story in his gun shop where he met and dealt with many hunters. He was sure it was true - no reason why it should not be. It's just amazing that the animal was not 'upset' by the gunshot. Possibly the bullet strike distracted it at time of the report. The story came out when I was telling of my heart/lung shot bushpig that trotted off as though nothing had happened, making me think I had missed! Not even a flinch - nothing! It went 40 paces before collapsing. The sound of the bullet strike could have been that of striking a branch.

How far do you think this caracal made it after I shot it with a .308 Win?



200 yards! Try running 2 football fields without a heart, stomach, liver, and half of your intestines hanging out.

I caught him at almost last light. Punched a hole in him and he took off like a flash. At the spot where I hit him he left everything he had eaten that day - a mouse, a bird, and pieces of wildebeest that I saw him munching on when I first saw him. After that, very little blood and faint tracks. At dark, we found where he was hiding due to the commotion in a tangle of thorns. We left him there and returned in the morning to find him dead.



When there's little or no light and very little blood spoor, sometimes you got to use your ears.

Namibiahunter

303 hunter-
To answer your question, yes, the deer was standing essentially broadside and staring stright at him when he pulled the trigger, and it had been chasing a doe before it stopped for the shot, so I am sure that adrenaline played a major part in the distance he ran. Also, as someone else pointed out, teh fact that there were no obstacles for that distance was certainly a factor. Still, it was incredible to watch. If I hadn't seen it with my own eyes, I would've doubted it was possible. But it's absolutely true...

Now I have never seen it happen with a bullet as has been mentioned, but I have shot animals tight behind the front shoulder with an arrow and had them hump up fora second as if stung and then go back to their business as if nothing had happened.

HOLY .... umm .... COW!. A big beast one could expect (even then not) but that little critter! How big is he? The size of a very large cat? (Only more slender - and longer - and taller). How long did that dash take? And he was still alive when you found him! Mind you, they can kill a sheep (or so I have been given to believe).

I was looking at a head mount of a blue wildebeest in a gun shop today - tough looking critter! (And ugly - in a beautiful sort of way). They also have a hartebeest head (or is a Tsesebe) - rats, I will have to back and check.

quote:

Now there is a possibility that they may be just a little tongue in cheek.

bartsche, apparently not. But you are forgiven for suspecting so. It does sound incredible!

PS I hope nobody minds all this under 'small caliber'

Sorry namigiahunter.

The cat looks more gut shot to me. Big hole but but I would say it didnt hit the heart. I disbelive that if the bullet took the heart out that cat lived that long. Taking the liver and intestines out would lead me to belive the wound was behind the diaphragm allowing it to run that far.

Did you gut it out and actual look at the heart. Or did you assume that the bullet took the heart out because the hole was so big it couldn't have been possible to have missed it.

I had the same type of wound on a yote last year, Never touch the vitals left guts along the trail and ran a long ways.

We all would like to belive that we make perfect shots all the time but I have seen way too many critters shot in other places to know better.

quote:

Originally posted by 303Guy:

quote:

Now there is a possibility that they may be just a little tongue in cheek.

bartsche, apparently not. But you are forgiven for suspecting so. It does sound incredible! )

I am now converted and believe.And a sincere thank you for the absolution! roger

When you're following a blood trail, if you will put a square of toilet paper on each drop of blood as you go along it will give you a direction if you lose the trail (crossing a wet spot, etc) and give you a point to refer back to.
These ideas of shot 'em behind the shoulder; shoot 'em in the shoulder, etc don't mean crap. It depends on how the animal is turned. You shoot for the exit hole. Whether you're gonna get one or not.
And IMO, a fellow that goes hunting and hasn't brushed up on his tracking skills shouldn't be out there. It's part of your commitment.

Actually I sure do disagree, I believe that we shoot for the vitals, or the structure, or the nervous system.
Having a 3d image in your mind when you place your sights allows you to imagine the bullets path to and through the area that you need to hit with your bullet.
Hopefully getting an exit wound after the bullet has done its job.

So in that case where you hit them is obviously of great importance.
Yes the angle they are standing is essential to take into account, but imagining where the parts are inside that you want to take out is key.

quote:

The cat looks more gut shot to me. Big hole but but I would say it didnt hit the heart.

It looks like it was hit through the diaphrame. It also looks like the lungs could be taken out. But it may be possible that the heart is still in there and could have remained pumping untill the point of death. Two hundred meters and still alive at time of locating does seem a long way for there to have no heart. Plus there does seem a lot of bleeding around the exit wound. Still, I wasn't there!

However, I have shot a critter in the diaphrame making a fist sized hole through the animal. By this I mean I could have put my closed fist through him. This was a vervet monkey which is much smaller than a caracal. The rifle was a 223 which qualifies as a small caliber . This critter tried to get away! It survived about two minutes before I could finish him off. His heart and lungs were still in there.

quote:

When you're following a blood trail, if you will put a square of toilet paper on each drop of blood as you go along it will give you a direction if you lose the trail (crossing a wet spot, etc) and give you a point to refer back to.

Good tip!

quote:

.... imagining where the parts are inside that you want to take out is key.

I know this but sometimes forget to think of it while taking the shot. I am getting better at remembering it.

quote:

Originally posted by p dog shooter:

Sorry namigiahunter.

The cat looks more gut shot to me. Big hole but but I would say it didnt hit the heart. I disbelive that if the bullet took the heart out that cat lived that long. Taking the liver and intestines out would lead me to belive the wound was behind the diaphragm allowing it to run that far.

Did you gut it out and actual look at the heart. Or did you assume that the bullet took the heart out because the hole was so big it couldn't have been possible to have missed it.

I had the same type of wound on a yote last year, Never touch the vitals left guts along the trail and ran a long ways.

We all would like to belive that we make perfect shots all the time but I have seen way too many critters shot in other places to know better.

You could be right about the heart still being intact. I did not do an autopsy and I know nothing about forensic ballistics. I'm just hunter and I try to place my shots where I think it will put the animal down quickly. It just amazed me to see that caracal take off like that.

quote:

Originally posted by TEANCUM:

There you go recommending head shots. Aren't you aware that on this board lurks outspoken critics of such endeavors?? Surely you must realize that their opinions, from their arm chairs, is more weighty than your in the field experience!! Be prepared as their opinions usually follow any reference to headshooting.

I'm sure I've shot more animals in the head, purposefully or by accident, than comes to my mind this late in the night but the one that I remember most every time someone talks about head shots is a feral dog that I had to put down.

I was out checking on beaver traps set by my ex-wife's uncle and also to find out what all the commotion was among the cows when I saw a Lab-size dog chasing one of the young calves. I yelled to it, thinking it was one of the neighboring farm's dogs but I didn't recognize it. I was carrying a Savage 24C, .22 LR over 20 gauge, which I used a lot for grouse. Anyway, instead of the dog running off this dog faced me and snarled. I knew I was going to have a problem so I replaced the No.6 shotshell with a slug and placed a .22 LR into the top chamber. I picked up a rock and threw it at the dog. I didn't hit him but this dog was showing no fear of me whatsoever. We were about 10 yards apart and his snarling and bared fangs were starting to scare me so I aimed for his chest, selected the shotgun barrel and kept yelling for him to get out of there. He started to move toward me so I put a slug into his chest. He went down but came back up like he was spring-loaded but now snarling more vicious than before. Now I was really scared. I selected the rimfire barrel and put a shot into his head. That put him down for good.

Damn, I'm beginning to sound like a story-teller. I better get off this thread.

Namibiahunter

Don't leave us now namibiahunter! Besides, your 'story' is about small calibers.

Did you axamine the wound effect of the slug? (That too was a 'small caliber' shotgun slug ).

I know a whitetail deer can run 100 yds with a hole in its heart because I shot one with my .45 caliber muzzle loader that did just that. When I cleaned the animal there was a huge hole in its heart. There was an entry and an exit wound, but no blood trail to follow. I was able to track the big whitetail buck's tracks and find it. (There was so much smoke when I shot, I couldn't even tell what direction it had gone.) Some tracking skills are essential if your going to hunt big game! Sooner or later your going to need to track an animal if you hunt long enough!

I have shot two mule deer with archery gear in the heart. Upon cleaning them we found the 3 blade imprint of the broadhead going through the heart.

Generally it took about 15-20 seconds for them to die and the distance travelled depended on what the deer did upon being hit. In one case the deer trotted for about 25 yards then layed down and checked out. In another case the deer took off with "hoofs over ears" running and made around 150 yards before piling up at full speed. Interesting but consistent as to the time span.

I've shot well over a hudred big game animals and have been in on the killing of hundreds of more.

I started my tracking as a kid tracking chipmunks rabbits ect shot with my blow gun. By the time I was 14 by buddys were calling me to skip school and help track there wounded bow deer.

It is a very rare occasion when a good soildly hit lung heart shot critter goes over a 100 yards take one lung out hit them just behind the diaphragm they can go a long ways.

I seen many a heart with a nice x cut through them with a arrow. I have always enjoyed cutting up criiters and finding out what actual damage was done and what the projectile had hit.

I have helped track lots of critters 99 percent of the time when some one tells me they placed the shot right behind the shoulders and I don't find them with in a 100 yards. Then and if I do find them the first shot was not double lung or heart shot.

good luck tracking takes a lot of time small blood drop to small blood drop. Other times it looks like they were spraying it with a hose.

Depending on where he's hit in the lung(s)(especially with a small calibre, a deer can travel a long ways without leaving a blood trail even though there is blood at the initial point. The blood is puddling in the lungs and chest cavity.
A hunter making that shot may track out a short ways and then, because of attitude or lack of ability, say I just barked him and stop trying to find the deer.

quote:

Originally posted by bucko:
You know I wrote something about why you would feel the need to trash on people who have seen more than you....

Hey Roger, It is very difficult for me to believe that you are such a close and personal buddy of bucko, that he has such a thorough and vast knowledge about " your " experience.

Simply AMAZING!

Even more surprised he didn't use his normal profanity in the post.

Hey, Bucko is the REAL DEAL!!!............ just ask him.

quote:

Originally posted by Hot Core:

quote:

Originally posted by bucko:
You know I wrote something about why you would feel the need to trash on people who have seen more than you....

Hey Roger, It is very difficult for me to believe that you are such a close and personal buddy of bucko, that he has such a thorough and vast knowledge about " your " experience.

Simply AMAZING!

Even more surprised he didn't use his normal profanity in the post.

bucko who? roger

Ladies, ladies..
If you would not mind taking your BS back to the PF, I would be more than happy to slap the curls out of your empty blue haired heads.

You don't like me? what a shocker!

Lets leave this crap for where it belongs what do you say?
There are actually people here who hunt and this does not need to be hashed out here.

Hey, Guys, Guys, .... It's bad enough we are talking blood trails and tracking on the small caliber section!
We can't help it. It's too damn interesting!

Hi there Hot Core! I was wondering where you were. You been out hunting? How did your buddy do with his hornet?

quote:

Tracking is an art in and of itself, and something that needs to be taught, practiced and appreciated.

Marking tape, a step stick, patience, a good knowledge of what animals are likely to do when hit where depending on the terrain, a bulldog tenacity to not give up looking for the next clue and to resist the urge to forge ahead and screw up sign..

I have much to learn and this seems like very good advice! It will not harm me to practice by simply tracking any deer who's tracks I come accross.

quote:

Originally posted by bucko:
Ladies, ladies..
If you would not mind taking your BS back to the PF, I would be more than happy to slap the curls out of your empty blue haired heads.

That certainly scares the curls out of my blue hair. roger

quote:

Originally posted by 303Guy:
...Hi there Hot Core! I was wondering where you were. You been out hunting? How did your buddy do with his hornet?...

Been too busy Tracking things shot at with "Inadequate Cartridges". Naw, it happens with most Cartridges on occasion.

Actually a pretty good thread when you ignore bucko's ignorance and trash talking.

Took and old MARINE CORP buddy shooting last week. As I was backing the truck in I hear all this noise and STOP. He is out the door in a flash ooohing and awwwwing - HUGE MASSIVE Deer Tracks. He is from Florida and just hasn't seen them that size. When I moved back up here, I'd forgotten how LARGE some of the Deer are up here myself.

Makes me wonder just how HUGE the tracks must be for the Deer North of where I am right now. They must really be something on a 300# Deer. Kind of like tracking a Tank through the mud.
-----

I need to call Mike(with the Hornet) and see what he is into. He is working and doesn't have as much time as he once did.

Good Hunting and (hopefully) clean 1-shot Kills to you folks.

Well I can only say that I am certainly glad that you two decided to show up when you did, you always add something to the conversation when you do.

The best tracking job I did was following tracks of someone who seemed lost. After hours of tracking, I found out the tracks were mine. Pretty good, huh, because I'm no longer lost.

The worst tracking job I ever did was after I shot a coyote and left my daypack on the ground so that I could go unencumbered to retrieve the animal. When I went to get my pack after I got the coyote I couldn't find where I left the blasted thing. Spent most of the day looking for it. I finally found it after I had already given up hope of finding it and I unzipped to take a leak. Peed right on top of my pack.

Namibiahunter

I have shot about as much game as anyone, and I would not even suggest how far an animal can run shot anywhere except in the head or spine..

I have seen deer shot center heart run about 200 yards at dead out full speed. I might add that a deer can run a hell of a ways in 10 seconds. A race horse can run a mile in 3 seconds so go figure..

I have had PHs tell me of longer runs...I found a Swift A-Frame .375 in grisel on the off side skin on a big buffalo and scar tissue so bad that the animal appeard to have lungs in 4 sections as opposed to two..The wound was at least a couple of years old and the bull was fat and healthy, but mean. That would be my big bull on my web page..I couldn't believe that he survived such a wound, it was a double lung shot center on one lung and rather low or high on the second lung, not sure which..

At any rate when it comes to how long an animal can live, it would be foolish for anyone to state flatly a time frame...In other words never say never..

quote:

A race horse can run a mile in 3 seconds so go figure..

Ray! Did you get into my private Canadian spirits reserve? roger

quote:

I have seen deer shot center heart run about 200 yards at dead out full speed. I might add that a deer can run a hell of a ways in 10 seconds. A race horse can run a mile in 3 seconds so go figure..

And ten seconds can seem like a minute in the heat of things. I had been hearing about this amazing long shot with a 22lr. Over one hundred meters. Maybe as much as 120. It took about a second or more from firing to strike sound returning. Well, last night I was there, at the exact spot and shown the exact tree on the other side of a river. Maybe fifty meters? Strike sound return almost instant. Bullet hits point of aim. Time and distance can be deceptive. Still .... that double lung shot buffalo shows just how tough animals really are!

quote:

A race horse can run a mile in 3 seconds

1,200 miles per hour?

quote:

Originally posted by vapodog:

quote:

A race horse can run a mile in 3 seconds

1,200 miles per hour?

Outrunning a .357 Magnum bullet loaded hot at over 500 m/s? That is nearly twice supersonic...

Well just for the record; Idaho has secretly been competeing with Kentucky in breeding stock and it looks like they came up with a winner.

Just so you know Ray was just testing us! Wahhh! roger

I know this post is kinda of old and probably dead, however, I was trying a new bullet in a 35 Rem. I was trying a 225 gr(I was was young and dumb at the time). Anyway I shot a 4 pt at about 30 yds. The deer jumped at the blast looked around and went back to eating acorns. I rasied my gun for a follow up shot and seen blood spurting from the side of the deer. After about 20 to 30 seconds the deer got wobbly and then fell over dead. After dressing out the the deer, there was a perfect bullet hole in the heart. The bullet was too heavy for deer and never expanded. The deer never knew he was shot and I decided to test bullets more throughly before going hunting with them.

Old thread but; I have found that for a good blood trail the heart needs to still be functioning and the bullet holes not too high on the animal. I want to buy stock on that 3 second horse.

quote:

Originally posted by Atkinson:
The arrogance of some who say no need for tracking skills is beyond me. It shows how little they have hunted as opposed to their claims of great shooting and daring do...

And also the überhunters will find that there are other hunters around that mess up their shots. It's nice to be able to help.

And then, there are the traffic accidents. This night I slept three full hours, having been woken up by a police call that a taxi had hit a deer. Backpack always ready, just took the bloodhound and the 9,3x62 and get out. Yes, I found it. There are seldom exit wounds from animals escaping traffic accidents, even though they may go away for miles...